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#21 Travis

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:31 AM

Sorry, I thought this was a thread where we're asked if we could be given the chance, would we like to drive a street grader over Holland? And I'd say "I'm disappointed with our huge, mega off-season signing is journeyman Ian 'Four Teams in 18 months' White, but that's no reason to resort to violence."


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#22 Z and D for the C

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:36 AM

I'd give him a C+/B-. He hasn't done horrible, but he didn't do anything great. I would have really loved to sign a second line forward, and despite the weak FA this summer, there were a few options. I'd still like to package Hudler and get a solid 1st/2nd line forward.

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#23 pucktividi

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:44 AM

B all the way.

Would be an A- if he didn't pass on Gagne/Ryder/Jokkinen which he could get for a reasonable price.

#24 sleepwalker

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:48 AM

Besides that I'm not happy because Holland didn't take advantage of the fact that every player in the NHL wants to play for the Red Wings and with less money they'd get elsewhere.


Maybe in your mind, but clearly that is not true. Wiz may be a loudmouth, but you can bet there are a lot of other players feel like he does too, they just aren't out there putting their foot in their mouth making public statements about it.

Fact is, whenther we like to beleive it or not, a lot of players play for the sole reasone of the money, and would not sign with Detroit, because they feel the same as Wiz. And some players just flat out don't like Detroit and wouldn't sign here period. I know, shocking, right?


As far as Kenny, I probably give him a B/B-

Edited by sleepwalker, 20 July 2011 - 10:49 AM.


#25 Rivalred

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:01 AM

As others stated, the Big E contract was a bit disappointing (what market commanded kinda effed that one up)....

Content with the White/Commie signing; we needed some toughness on the back end, but still feel we are lacking on the Offensive-D department

Whole Hudler situation - wish he was gone, but guess we can't unload/give give him away.

I do feel we are missing offense still... Need a face-off/play maker/20 goal scorer.

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Edited by Rivalred, 20 July 2011 - 11:02 AM.

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#26 KrazyGangsta

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:03 AM

1- Probably one of the least exciting free agent class I've seen in my life. ( Brad Richards is good but why would we want him when we have Datsyuk and Zetterberg that both provide the same game that Richards does / both can center line 1 and 2 / both are more productive then Richards.

2- White & Commodore additions are a good gritty addition to this team + White will help this defensive corp out better then most of you guys imagine. (Wisnieksi would of been a good addition but never for that amount the he got paid by Colombus. Either then him there's was no one that I really wanted in the FA).

3- Holland addressed the need of backup goalie / defense.

4- Offense is steady / I would of loved to see him grab Eric Cole and get rid of Hudler but I'm still satisfied with the team we have.

5- We didn't overspend + we have 6 million left in the bank for a trade or even next year FA class :D.

6- We got a bit younger.

That's why I give him a B+

Edited by KrazyGangsta, 20 July 2011 - 11:03 AM.


#27 VM1138

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:25 AM

I still expect him to land another forward. We've got too much money just to sit on. Other contracts end next season so it's not like he has to save all of it.

I bet he'll spend around 5 million and leave the rest for wiggle room at the trade deadline.
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#28 eva unit zero

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:33 AM

Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.

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#29 Rivalred

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:39 AM

So what is your grade for Holland and why?

That is what this thread is about


Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.


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#30 stevkrause

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:52 AM

Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.

I've defended Hudler frequently on this board and think he takes WAY too much slack and SOME of your points aren't too bad, but man, do you go overboard defending him... 37 points isn't a horrendous year, but for his caphit and role (second line player) he should have hit at least 50, especially when they were expecting 60+ from him...

Come clean... are you Jiri Hudler's mommy? his brother? one of his hookers who still thinks he'll Pretty Woman her one day? What gives?

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#31 Kira

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

I'll give him an A...considering what he had to work with, he was shrewd in his spending. I'm very glad he signed Drew and Patrick, and if we had to lose Ozzie, at least he brought back a known quantity in Ty Conklin. I'm pretty satisfied with what's been done.
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#32 Crymson

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:31 PM

Besides that I'm not happy because Holland didn't take advantage of the fact that every player in the NHL wants to play for the Red Wings and with less money they'd get elsewhere.

I don't have an opinion on what he should do next. Maybe trade Hudler for a scoring top six forward and buy out Ericsson.


My first guess is that your post was meant very facetiously.

#33 Crymson

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:45 PM

Personally, I think it's just OK. We all expected a Rafalski replacement, didn't come. I think Kronwall will get bumped up and groomed for taking the mantle when Nick is gone. Maybe White can handle the PP too, who knows? But I think this area still has some question marks. Their overall talent level went down with Rafalski retiring and I don't think the void was completely filled. And for me, filling the void was the MINIMUM...I would have liked to see the level brought above last year's team. Maybe the new defense couch will have an effect.

I felt they needed to go after a finisher, someone to benefit from the sweet setups Dats and Z can give a scoring winger. Did not do that. Kind of stood too pat for me. Personally I think that there are a few too many guys who don't go hard to the net and get the dirty hard scoring chances. Would have loved to see him pick up someone who brought that as well as a little sandpaper in his game. And not Franzen kind of sandpaper, real grit. Not facewashing people and skating away.


You might consider that very, very few players in those categories were available, and that all of them were woefully overpaid.

#34 Zetts

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:51 PM

I don't think I can really give him a grade. The premise of this off-season seems to be that we're waiting until next off-season, and are trying to hold out until then.

So if Holland does well next off-season: A+. He made small sacrifices short term, and still iced a competitive team so that we could become elite again in the future. And we won't be screwed if the cap does in fact go down.

If Holland fails next off-season: C-. He wasted a year and did nothing.

Obviously that's ridiculously unfair. He can't see into the future, and is acting right now on what he feels will give them the best long-term shot. But hockey is all about unrealistic expectations as we've seen all over these boards, and it's part of his job to figure out these problems.

I am quite nervous about next off-season though. I would have liked to get Lidstrom's replacement (i.e. a true number 1) to plug into Rafalski's spot, so he'd have a year to click, and then sign a #2 to replace Rafalski next off-season. Sadly, the options sucked. The way it stands (assuming Lidstrom retires), we're going to need a couple of big signings next year, because a player like White won't cut it once both Lidstrom and Rafalski are gone. And two such significant moves at once are hard to get right.

God I hope Lidstrom stays one more year after this.

Edited by Zetts, 20 July 2011 - 12:58 PM.


#35 Z and D for the C

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:52 PM

Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.


17 of Hudler's points came from playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. (12 Datsyuk). And since you want to bring Filppula in to this, Filppula had 3 points playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I wonder how Filppula would have done if he got the same icetime with Pav or Z.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 20 July 2011 - 12:53 PM.

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#36 Crymson

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

The only knock I have on Holland this offseason is the inability to move Hudler's contract (1 year left) and bring in a more competent top 6 forward to play with Dats or Z. This is something that I feel we don't necessarly need, but would put us over the top in terms of competitive edge. With 6+ million leftover in cap, it may still happen, but I am thinking Holland will bide his time until the trade deadline and bring in someone to help out offensively then.


Consider that perhaps nobody wanted Hudler at his cap hit. And how many top-six forwards actually hit the open market?

#37 brett

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

B-

White - certainly not as good as raffi solid but not nearly as good offensively.
Commodore - i will say didnt like the signing at first but gotta be an upgrade from salei
Conklin - 750k great deal solid back up
Ericsson - meh but they still see potential in him so he can only improve. hopefully works out to be the best
Lids - Perfect signing no matter the numbers
Glad to keep most of the AHL guys

More grit, I say better defensively, and hopefully better PK. Time will only tell.

6.5 mil and huds to go what you got holland???

Edited by brett, 20 July 2011 - 01:02 PM.


#38 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:07 PM

Can't give him an A or an F in any way.

I give him a C+. There is a lot of time left to make deals and I think we will be big spenders at the deadline if we go into this season with 6 mil to spend. This may be one of those seasons where we make a big splash in February and get exactly who is needed and are instantly the #1 choice for the Cup.

Having said that, I do NOT think that our offense is well stocked. We are still too top heavy a team and our top two lines are definitely going to have to handle a substantial amount of the offense, which makes the opposition's job easier with shutting down the team's scoring.

Defense was well addressed, but the overpayment of Ericsson is the only glaring error that I believe Holland committed. Even with the Wiz comments, if we had let E go after the theoretical amount of money he could have gotten, we would have easily had enough to sign a second tier defenseman like Wiz for the amount he believes he is worth, rather than sign E for the amount I think we all know he is not worth.

Conklin was a great, cheap pick-up and I remember feeling confident when he was in net in the Wings jersey.

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It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#39 Wings4Life19

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:23 PM

Grade: Incomplete.
the off-season isn't over yet and there is still the trade deadline to make moves. If the wings bring back the chalice next june I bet every grade that has been given to Kenny gets changed to an A+++++

#40 ReallyHuh

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:24 PM

I'll give him a solid C.

He didn't do a bad job whatsoever - that said, he didn't make the team any better. And the only way I could justify giving anything higher then a C would have been if we were icing a better team this year.

- Big E deal wasn't great, but definitely not the end of the world.
- We didn't come close to replacing Rafalski.
- I would of liked to added some size to one of the bottom 6, which we didn't.
- Conklin was a good signing - I was sad to see him go in the first place.
- Ian White is OK - for the money we signed him for he is great, but will not come close to replacing Rafalski.
- Commodore was a good signing for the money - adds some grit, and has been around for a while in the league.


So yeah, I wouldn't say Holland did a bad job, I just don't think we are better. Just a year older.
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