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RusDRW

Jimmy Howard Debate Thread

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---- EDIT By NFM25: This thread was created because I want to continue this discussion and it belongs in its own thread, not the one regarding the Ty Conklin Signing. ----

Did you watch the playoffs this past season? That Jimmy Howard fellow played pretty good in them.

And :thumbup: to re-signing Conklin if it is true.

plays like below is what I'm talking about

Shootouts are another story. In most of those Howard allowed two goals which is unacceptable.

PS BTW Couture scored exactly the same garbage in 2010 play-offs to win Game 3 for SJS.

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plays like below is what I'm talking about

Shootouts are another story. In most of those Howard allowed two goals which is unacceptable.

PS BTW Couture scored exactly the same garbage in 2010 play-offs to win Game 3 for SJS.

K...

Overall he still played well in the playoffs all things considered.

Perhaps you need to be a little less paranoid about the goalkeeping. Can't stop 'em all and everybody let's in a bad one here and there. For Howard's salary and his situations the past two (and first two) seasons of full-time duty, he's done very well all things considering.

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Shootouts are another story. In most of those Howard allowed two goals which is unacceptable.

PS BTW Couture scored exactly the same garbage in 2010 play-offs to win Game 3 for SJS.

Oh really? Last season while at home he gave up 1 goal on 6 shootout attempts. While on the road, he gave up only 1 goal on 11 attempts.

Stop posting bulls*** information as fact when its clearly incorrect. It's not only annoying it makes you lose credibility.

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K...

Overall he still played well in the playoffs all things considered.

Perhaps you need to be a little less paranoid about the goalkeeping. Can't stop 'em all and everybody let's in a bad one here and there. For Howard's salary and his situations the past two (and first two) seasons of full-time duty, he's done very well all things considering.

Let's not forget, if it wasn't for Howard, we don't make the playoffs in 2010. He was AMAZING during that stretch when the team was injured and not playing all that great. 40-50 saves for him was the norm. He was inconsistent this past regular season, but I felt was very good in the postseason. IMO, Howard's playoffs in 2011 was significantly better than in 2010. Those first two games in SJ would have been blowout losses with a lesser goalie.

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Cmon Rus, put the bong down bro.

If i had time Id scour youtube for all the great saves Howie has made. But then again everybody but you knows what Im talking about..

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K...

Overall he still played well in the playoffs all things considered.

Perhaps you need to be a little less paranoid about the goalkeeping. Can't stop 'em all and everybody let's in a bad one here and there. For Howard's salary and his situations the past two (and first two) seasons of full-time duty, he's done very well all things considering.

Well, I agree with you to some extent. There are instinct goalies like Hasek, Miller, Lundquist, Roy, Luongo, Backstrom, Hiller, Price and there are other goalies. The latter could be as efficient as those belonging to the first group if they are (i) play good positionally and (ii) big enough, and (iii) fairly stable mentally. These are Giguere, Thomas, Rask, etc. Currently Howard is in the third category with others like Varlamov, Neuvrith, Schenider, Anderson, etc. Howard could be in the second group but he is not there yet. Consistency if the main problem. I see see him improving though next season. Still we are far from SC next season just because of him.

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plays like below is what I'm talking about

Shootouts are another story. In most of those Howard allowed two goals which is unacceptable.

PS BTW Couture scored exactly the same garbage in 2010 play-offs to win Game 3 for SJS.

All Hudler's fault...

yuck yuck yuck

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Oh really? Last season while at home he gave up 1 goal on 6 shootout attempts. While on the road, he gave up only 1 goal on 11 attempts.

Stop posting bulls*** information as fact when its clearly incorrect. It's not only annoying it makes you lose credibility.

I'm not trying to get credibility on the message board. I'm a fan and this is my opinion.

Having watched around 70 games last season I do not remember I felt safe when we had two- or one-goal leads just because of any shoot potentially being a goal. Talking about shootouts... I guess what best describes Howard is that shootout we had with Chicago when Pavel and Todd scored outstanding highlight-reel goals while Howard allowed three in a row.

PS Now I feel a bit safer. At least we have a goalie who knows what to do and not just randomly moves in the net.

Edited by RusDRW

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How is this turning into a Howard thread?

I agree a few posts up - most Wings goals against are actually Hudler's fault if you rewind the tape far enough.

Rafalski and Ericsson were also responsible for every second goal :):):) Cause they didn't know how to play defense.

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I'm not trying to get credibility on the message board. I'm a fan and this is my opinion.

Having watched around 70 games last season I do not remember I felt safe when we had two- or one-goal leads just because of any shoot potentially being a goal. Talking about shootouts... I guess what best describes Howard is that shootout we had with Chicago when Pavel and Todd scored outstanding highlight-reel goals while Howard allowed three in a row.

PS Now I feel a bit safer. At least we have a goalie who knows what to do and not just randomly moves in the net.

So, your opinion is in most shootouts Howard gives up 2 goals. You expect members to actually let that fly when its complete bulls***?

I watch a hell-of-a-lot more than 70 games a year, and stating that alleged shootout you're referring to *best describes* Howard is complete garbage. First off, when was this shootout? Two seasons ago would be the only time it could've happened. If that be the case, why don't you acknowledge how solid he's become, especially last season giving up 2 total goals while facing 17 shots! That's ******* great for any goalie in the NHL to only give up.

So, the point being is stop posting garbage that isn't true and pretending one poor performance in a shootout is what best describes him when *facts* and *logic* prove otherwise. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but similarly everyone has the right to call your points out when you post things as fact when they're not.

But...I digress. Back to ConkBlock! If he's signed for the reported $750k, its a great deal for Kenny and the Wings. That's a solid number for a guy I expected to command $1M even.

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So, your opinion is in most shootouts Howard gives up 2 goals. You expect members to actually let that fly when its complete bulls***?

I watch a hell-of-a-lot more than 70 games a year, and stating that alleged shootout you're referring to *best describes* Howard is complete garbage. First off, when was this shootout? Two seasons ago would be the only time it could've happened. If that be the case, why don't you acknowledge how solid he's become, especially last season giving up 2 total goals while facing 17 shots! That's ******* great for any goalie in the NHL to only give up.

So, the point being is stop posting garbage that isn't true and pretending one poor performance in a shootout is what best describes him when *facts* and *logic* prove otherwise. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but similarly everyone has the right to call your points out when you post things as fact when they're not.

But...I digress. Back to ConkBlock! If he's signed for the reported $750k, its a great deal for Kenny and the Wings. That's a solid number for a guy I expected to command $1M even.

Fuuuuuuuck! Well, perhaps, statistics say otherwise... Yes, I mentioned it, that's my mistake. Can you name me a person who would feel safe going with Howard to Game 7 of SCF? He is going to let pucks in. Period. Red Wings somehow need to deal with it scoring, scoring and scoring. I remember (I bet you too) those times when our goalie didn't let pucks in in a game just because he played good not because a team in from of him played excellent. These were 97 and 2001-2002 season. Since then we have Howard-like goalies.

PS Notice, I'm not going to ask you how to "watch hell-lot-more than 70 games". Simply because it is no more than 106 every season for SC finalist.

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Fuuuuuuuck! Well, perhaps, statistics say otherwise... Yes, I mentioned it, that's my mistake. Can you name me a person who would feel safe going with Howard to Game 7 of SCF? He is going to let pucks in. Period. Red Wings somehow need to deal with it scoring, scoring and scoring. I remember (I bet you too) those times when our goalie didn't let pucks in in a game just because he played good not because a team in from of him played excellent. These were 97 and 2001-2002 season. Since then we have Howard-like goalies.

PS Notice, I'm not going to ask you how to "watch hell-lot-more than 70 games". Simply because it is no more than 106 every season for SC finalist.

I would. He's very solid. Gives up some weak shots, but all goalies do. He seems mentally strong which is HUGE in today's NHL among goaltenders. He's gotten his rebound control under....well control.

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So, your opinion is in most shootouts Howard gives up 2 goals. You expect members to actually let that fly when its complete bulls***?

I watch a hell-of-a-lot more than 70 games a year, and stating that alleged shootout you're referring to *best describes* Howard is complete garbage. First off, when was this shootout? Two seasons ago would be the only time it could've happened. If that be the case, why don't you acknowledge how solid he's become, especially last season giving up 2 total goals while facing 17 shots! That's ******* great for any goalie in the NHL to only give up.

So, the point being is stop posting garbage that isn't true and pretending one poor performance in a shootout is what best describes him when *facts* and *logic* prove otherwise. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but similarly everyone has the right to call your points out when you post things as fact when they're not.

But...I digress. Back to ConkBlock! If he's signed for the reported $750k, its a great deal for Kenny and the Wings. That's a solid number for a guy I expected to command $1M even.

Maybe he is commenting on Howie being out of position at times, playing too far out of the net, and losing track of the puck behind the net/in the corners... I have noticed this also...

But yes, back to Conks...

84155044.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA54828287EF64EE712AA8A466DDDBB9A30362D746A350FB3605DE30A760B0D811297

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Fuuuuuuuck! Well, perhaps, statistics say otherwise... Yes, I mentioned it, that's my mistake. Can you name me a person who would feel safe going with Howard to Game 7 of SCF? He is going to let pucks in. Period. Red Wings somehow need to deal with it scoring, scoring and scoring. I remember (I bet you too) those times when our goalie didn't let pucks in in a game just because he played good not because a team in from of him played excellent. These were 97 and 2001-2002 season. Since then we have Howard-like goalies.

PS Notice, I'm not going to ask you how to "watch hell-lot-more than 70 games". Simply because it is no more than 106 every season for SC finalist.

What about his 1-1 record in game 7's (both of which were on the road) inspire such little confidence in you? Admit it, you just don't care for him....because while he may not be Brodeur in his prime, he's certainly more capable than most goaltenders in the league especially at his $2.25M price tag.

Maybe he is commenting on Howie being out of position at times, playing too far out of the net, and losing track of the puck behind the net/in the corners... I have noticed this also...

But yes, back to Conks...

84155044.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA54828287EF64EE712AA8A466DDDBB9A30362D746A350FB3605DE30A760B0D811297

I don't disagree, but he was referring to shootout performance and numbers that were completely false. That is what (and all) I called him out on.

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Maybe he is commenting on Howie being out of position at times, playing too far out of the net, and losing track of the puck behind the net/in the corners... I have noticed this also...

But yes, back to Conks...

84155044.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA54828287EF64EE712AA8A466DDDBB9A30362D746A350FB3605DE30A760B0D811297

I'm commenting on Howard being a goalie who cannot take a team to SCF irrespective of who plays on the ice. Just like Bobrovski in Phily or Varlamov/Neuvrith in Washington. That is it. All things you've noticed are related to either lack of confidence or lack of good skills. I really hope this is lack of confidence. However, he already played two full seasons and was developed properly through the minors. Evidently, it is lack of skill. Luckily, for our team to be champion a mediocre goalie is needed. Howard is worse than that.

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What about his 1-1 record in game 7's (both of which were on the road) inspire such little confidence in you? Admit it, you just don't care for him....because while he may not be Brodeur in his prime, he's certainly more capable than most goaltenders in the league especially at his $2.25M price tag.

Do you remember how Red Wings played in front of him in both of those games? This year, especially, even after loosing Bert and Danny. That would be sufficient to win both games. However, at his price (2.25M) he is more or less good. More or less. Well, for teams like Columbus, Calgary or Carolina that do not have any chance to win it all it is ok.

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What about his 1-1 record in game 7's (both of which were on the road) inspire such little confidence in you? Admit it, you just don't care for him....because while he may not be Brodeur in his prime, he's certainly more capable than most goaltenders in the league especially at his $2.25M price tag.

I don't disagree, but he was referring to shootout performance and numbers that were completely false. That is what (and all) I called him out on.

Howard actually did quite well in shootouts last year, better than his 1st season which was to be expected as he is still learning in my eyes.

If anything, the 1-2 goal lead games and the reasons why we lost them was not due to the goaltending, but was due to lack of effort by the offense, bad turnovers, or giveaways/not clearing the puck in our town zone...

So yeah, I am on board with you also...

I'm commenting on Howard being a goalie who cannot take a team to SCF irrespective of who plays on the ice. Just like Bobrovski in Phily or Varlamov/Neuvrith in Washington. That is it. All things you've noticed are related to either lack of confidence or lack of good skills. I really hope this is lack of confidence. However, he already played two full seasons and was developed properly through the minors. Evidently, it is lack of skill. Luckily, for our team to be champion a mediocre goalie is needed. Howard is worse than that.

Ah, I think you need to reassess you evaluation and come up with some facts and precise examples.

I am on-board with with NFM25

Washington and Philly doesn't know what to do, both teams have been playing musical-goalies for the the last few seasons now... No comparison in my eyes...

Anyways, hope Conklin returns to his former (Red Wing) glory and thrives...

Edited by Rivalred

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I have faith in Jimmy. Sure he has had his ups and downs but he's only got two years under his belt. If he can play this season near the level that he left off in the playoffs then I could see him getting Vezina consideration. And I don't care about the soft goals he has let in, if Lolongo can get Vancouver to game 7 in the finals, Jimmy can win the cup for the Wings.

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Guest Crymson

Shootouts are another story. In most of those Howard allowed two goals which is unacceptable.

What a load of nonsense. Howard was one of the best goalies in the league in shootouts last season.

PS BTW Couture scored exactly the same garbage in 2010 play-offs to win Game 3 for SJS.

He won game three with it, eh? Interesting. I recall that game going to OT.

I'm not trying to get credibility on the message board. I'm a fan and this is my opinion.

Claiming statistics that are flat-out false and then covering up by saying "this is my opinion" does not calculate. I think "I refuse to admit that I was wrong about these statistics" is what you're looking for.

Having watched around 70 games last season I do not remember I felt safe when we had two- or one-goal leads just because of any shoot potentially being a goal. Talking about shootouts... I guess what best describes Howard is that shootout we had with Chicago when Pavel and Todd scored outstanding highlight-reel goals while Howard allowed three in a row.

That wasn't last season, smart guy. That was in early 2010. And Howard didn't give up three in a row in that shootout.

Fuuuuuuuck! Well, perhaps, statistics say otherwise... Yes, I mentioned it, that's my mistake. Can you name me a person who would feel safe going with Howard to Game 7 of SCF? He is going to let pucks in. Period. Red Wings somehow need to deal with it scoring, scoring and scoring. I remember (I bet you too) those times when our goalie didn't let pucks in in a game just because he played good not because a team in from of him played excellent. These were 97 and 2001-2002 season. Since then we have Howard-like goalies.

Oh, so now this is to be a commentary on Holland's choices of goalie in the last 14 seasons. Never mind that the Red Wings had the same goalies in many of the seasons since those you're quoting.

But anyway, Holland, please go out and sign the perfect goalie! You know, the one who never lets pucks in!

Howard was streaky in the regular season and outstanding in the playoffs. Just ask the Sharks and the Coyotes.

I'm commenting on Howard being a goalie who cannot take a team to SCF irrespective of who plays on the ice. Just like Bobrovski in Phily or Varlamov/Neuvrith in Washington. That is it. All things you've noticed are related to either lack of confidence or lack of good skills. I really hope this is lack of confidence. However, he already played two full seasons and was developed properly through the minors. Evidently, it is lack of skill. Luckily, for our team to be champion a mediocre goalie is needed. Howard is worse than that.

Applause on your use of arbitrary statements as if they're fact. First you mention that this is a message board and that it's your opinion, and then you dictate "fact" to the rest of us when it is, just as before, only your opinion.

Do you remember how Red Wings played in front of him in both of those games? This year, especially, even after loosing Bert and Danny. That would be sufficient to win both games. However, at his price (2.25M) he is more or less good. More or less. Well, for teams like Columbus, Calgary or Carolina that do not have any chance to win it all it is ok.

Yes, I recall Howard winning game seven against the Coyotes while only giving up one goal; in this year's game seven versus the Sharks, I recall the Red Wings having very little offense in periods two and three. And I recall Howard having let in two goals he had very little chance of stopping, and having been failed by the defense on both occasions.

Since you're obviously less interested in discussion than you are in simply declaring that Howard sucks, why don't you just put it in your sig and call it a day?

Edited by Crymson

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I'm commenting on Howard being a goalie who cannot take a team to SCF irrespective of who plays on the ice. Just like Bobrovski in Phily or Varlamov/Neuvrith in Washington. That is it. All things you've noticed are related to either lack of confidence or lack of good skills. I really hope this is lack of confidence. However, he already played two full seasons and was developed properly through the minors. Evidently, it is lack of skill. Luckily, for our team to be champion a mediocre goalie is needed. Howard is worse than that.

You never said that initially. Had you done so, this debate would've sparked a very different discussion.

Based on what is Howard not a goalie who can take a team to the SCF's? His whole 2 years of playoff experience? The fact that he played in front of a depleted roster during the 2010 season and the rest of the guys burnt out during the SJS series? Or the fact that the only guy to show up games 1-2 against SJS this year was him? Had the team played even slightly up to par, this series would've been over in 5-6, rather than even needing a game 7.

Do you remember how Red Wings played in front of him in both of those games? This year, especially, even after loosing Bert and Danny. That would be sufficient to win both games. However, at his price (2.25M) he is more or less good. More or less. Well, for teams like Columbus, Calgary or Carolina that do not have any chance to win it all it is ok.

What game 7 were you watching? After the first period, and with the two key injuries up front the team was simply hanging on as long as they could.

Howard actually did quite well in shootouts last year, better than his 1st season which was to be expected as he is still learning in my eyes.

If anything, the 1-2 goal lead games and the reasons why we lost them was not due to the goaltending, but was due to lack of effort by the offense, bad turnovers, or giveaways/not clearing the puck in our town zone...

So yeah, I am on board with you also...

Ah, I think you need to reassess you evaluation and come up with some facts and precise examples.

I am on-board with with NFM25

Washington and Philly doesn't know what to do, both teams have been playing musical-goalies for the the last few seasons now... No comparison in my eyes...

Anyways, hope Conklin returns to his former (Red Wing) glory and thrives...

I actually touched on this in my initial post to RusDRW. I'm in complete agreement with you.

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The only problem I have with Howard is sometimes he gets way to aggressive and leaves his crease wide open and any rebound will result in a goal, but other than that I think we will be fine going into the coming season, especially with defensemen that will hopefully clear the crease this year.

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