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Draper or Hudler?


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#21 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:01 PM

The question is hard to answer, since both players are expendable at this point.

Draper will only play a year longer at most, and Hudler is just taking up roster space. So is Draper for that matter, when I think about it.
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#22 Motown4013

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:14 PM

I voted Hudler for most of the reasons people have mentioned BUT I would also like to mention that although Huds had a VERY disappointing season last year, it was a transition year for the guy. The KHL and the NHL are very different leagues and it is impossible to compare them. The year before he left for Russia the guy was the most productive member of the team (having the most points with icetime given)
He has been able to elevate his game with 57 points in 2009. I think if Huds can get into shape and develop some chemistry, 57 points is not unattainable again for him
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#23 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:14 PM

I'm not saying Hudler will turn it around and magically become a superstar but you claiming he 'just doesn't work here' because he had a poor year last season is a tough pill to swallow. Hudler is a player who has worked here in the past (prior to KHL) and was effective for some stretches last season. If 2010 wasn't packed with injuries and room under the cap had to be made for Franzen's return I bet Holland never would have traded Leino at that point despite him 'just not working here'.

Leino had 7 points in 42 games in 09/10 before he was traded. He was given top 6 ice time. Guy wouldn't play any defense, forecheck, or show any hustle at all. I think that defines "just not working here". If he was playing solely on the 4th line without any chances of playing with our top dogs, that would be one thing. He, as Hudler, was given opportunity after opportunity here. Draper knows his role, and he's good at it.
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#24 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:17 PM

The question is hard to answer, since both players are expendable at this point.

Draper will only play a year longer at most, and Hudler is just taking up roster space. So is Draper for that matter, when I think about it.

Agree.

Unless Hudler has a major turn-around, I don't see him with the Wings in 2012-2013. Draper, if signed, would likely ride the bench for 25-50% of the year as other forwards rotate with him and retire after the season. Draper has a locker-room presence, which is valuable, but he is certainly less-skilled than Hudler.

#25 mmamolo

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:28 PM

Leino had 7 points in 42 games in 09/10 before he was traded. He was given top 6 ice time. Guy wouldn't play any defense, forecheck, or show any hustle at all. I think that defines "just not working here". If he was playing solely on the 4th line without any chances of playing with our top dogs, that would be one thing. He, as Hudler, was given opportunity after opportunity here. Draper knows his role, and he's good at it.

Wow, I'm glad you understood what was said. I didn't say that Leino was working here or that he eventually would. I didn't even say that Hudler would eventually work here again. What I did say was that had cap space not been an issue in 2010 I dont think Holland would have moved Leino because he wasn't working here. The Wings exhaust every avenue to make it work with palyers they feel have skill and hockey smarts. It doesn't make sense to move Hudler now, when his value is rock bottom just as they did with Leino, only to see him flourish elsewhere when it's still possible for him to flourish here - especially not at the expense of a 40 year old who will surely retire next summer. Even if Hudler falls flat on his face this season it's still worth the gamble. That was the point...hopefully you get it this time.
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#26 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:41 PM

Wow, I'm glad you understood what was said. I didn't say that Leino was working here or that he eventually would. I didn't even say that Hudler would eventually work here again. What I did say was that had cap space not been an issue in 2010 I dont think Holland would have moved Leino because he wasn't working here. The Wings exhaust every avenue to make it work with palyers they feel have skill and hockey smarts. It doesn't make sense to move Hudler now, when his value is rock bottom just as they did with Leino, only to see him flourish elsewhere when it's still possible for him to flourish here - especially not at the expense of a 40 year old who will surely retire next summer. Even if Hudler falls flat on his face this season it's still worth the gamble. That was the point...hopefully you get it this time.


:blink:

So Holland DIDN'T try to shop Hudler for picks at the draft?

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#27 stevkrause

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:57 PM

:blink:

So Holland DIDN'T try to shop Hudler for picks at the draft?

and when Holland was trying to deal him for picks, maybe he had planned to move up with those additional picks and grab someone like Larsson, or he had a deal in place which would have brought someone like Jerome Iginla here in return for those picks and one of our prospects, or he just wanted more money to make a pitch for Brad Richards and wanted assets at an optimal period... who knows the exact reasoning, but I'm sure it was part of a bigger picture, the fact is - that is the past and many variables have changed since then. As the current team stands, we are better with Hudler than Draper and anyone that can't see that is looking at this with blinders on.

Edited by stevkrause, 21 July 2011 - 02:59 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#28 wings1110

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:08 PM

thats like asking which one of my nuts ide rather cut off.

#29 stevkrause

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:10 PM

thats like asking which one of my nuts ide rather cut off.

So you're deeply attached to both and don't want to lose either?

poor analogy...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#30 stevkrause

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:25 PM

Poll: Draper or Hudler? (54 member(s) have cast votes)
Who would you rather have on the Red Wings?

Draper (26 votes [54.17%] - View)

Hudler (22 votes [45.83%] - View)

So here's my breakdown:
21 people are looking at this logically and chose Hudler
1 person (eva) chose Hudler, well, because, come on...

16 people have irrational Hudler hate and would take a goat on skates over him at this point
6 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper
4 people are still stuck in the late 90's and think Shanahan and Fedorov are still viable options and don't even know half the guys on the current team

Edited by stevkrause, 21 July 2011 - 03:37 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#31 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:27 PM

and when Holland was trying to deal him for picks, maybe he had planned to move up with those additional picks and grab someone like Larsson, or he had a deal in place which would have brought someone like Jerome Iginla here in return for those picks and one of our prospects, or he just wanted more money to make a pitch for Brad Richards and wanted assets at an optimal period... who knows the exact reasoning, but I'm sure it was part of a bigger picture, the fact is - that is the past and many variables have changed since then. As the current team stands, we are better with Hudler than Draper and anyone that can't see that is looking at this with blinders on.


I said that mostly to counter the argument that keeping him for better value wasn't very valid.

This whole thread is like the choice between drinking an over aged wine and keeping a wine you know is lousy thinking aging it will make it worth more to someone else.

I realize long-term Hudler has more potential. However, that's just because he's younger. Draper is my choice for this season because of Hudler's performance last year (and how many games he was a healthy scratch), Holland shopping him at the draft, and the benefits on and off the ice that Draper can bring to the team.

Edited by CaliWingsNut, 21 July 2011 - 03:28 PM.

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#32 stevkrause

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:33 PM

I said that mostly to counter the argument that keeping him for better value wasn't very valid.

This whole thread is like the choice between drinking an over aged wine and keeping a wine you know is lousy thinking aging it will make it worth more to someone else.

I realize long-term Hudler has more potential. However, that's just because he's younger. Draper is my choice for this season because of Hudler's performance last year (and how many games he was a healthy scratch), Holland shopping him at the draft, and the benefits on and off the ice that Draper can bring to the team.

He can bring the same benefits off the ice in another role with the team, don't get me wrong, I love Draper, but at this stage in his career and what he brings to the team ON the ice we already have players equal to, or better than, him in those aspects in Eaves, Helm, Abdelkader, Mursak, Miller and to some extent, even Emmerton... his role is filled, that's all there is to it, whereas we DO need scorers, something Hudler is (albeit not an INCREDIBLY effective one last year), he still fits the role... who's going to fill in on that top 6 role? Like it or not, Hudler can produce at least 40pts, which isn't easily just found on a roster....

Edited by stevkrause, 21 July 2011 - 03:36 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#33 Green Wing

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

Hudler, easily.

#34 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:58 PM

The question is hard to answer, since both players are expendable at this point.

Draper will only play a year longer at most, and Hudler is just taking up roster space. So is Draper for that matter, when I think about it.

Agreed.

So I voted for the guy already under contract. Draper still has some qualities to offer, but with Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader in the lineup they're redundant. Maybe Hudler will have a good season and pot some goals.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 21 July 2011 - 03:59 PM.


#35 Rivalred

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:54 PM

Agreed.

So I voted for the guy already under contract. Draper still has some qualities to offer, but with Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader in the lineup they're redundant. Maybe Hudler will have a good season and pot some goals.


Like others have said, Hudler is in the last year on his contract, of course he will come up big...
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#36 Konnan511

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:07 PM

I'd take Hudler at Draper's Salary.
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#37 kylee

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:10 PM

Poll: Draper or Hudler? (54 member(s) have cast votes)
Who would you rather have on the Red Wings?

Draper (26 votes [54.17%] - View)

Hudler (22 votes [45.83%] - View)

So here's my breakdown:
21 people are looking at this logically and chose Hudler
1 person (eva) chose Hudler, well, because, come on...

16 people have irrational Hudler hate and would take a goat on skates over him at this point
6 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper
4 people are still stuck in the late 90's and think Shanahan and Fedorov are still viable options and don't even know half the guys on the current team


well said. but then again, why not just buy out Hudler since he's not worth the skates he puts on his feet? Afterall, everyone who watches hockey or has half a brain realizes that when a guy in his mid 20's has a bad season there's really no point in keeping him around.

#38 WingZNut13

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:31 PM

I chose Hudler. He did have an awful season but I think he is more likely to come back and have a great season and be something valuable to the organization. I prefer Drapes over Huds but I think Hudler has more "left in the tank" and can bring more to the team longer. I'm hoping he goes bat s*** the first few months and when the trade deadline approaches, we will have something more expendable to trade.
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#39 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:45 PM

thats like asking which one of my nuts ide rather cut off.

:blink:

Thank god I already ate dinner.

Anyways, depends on how you approach it.

If you focus solely or primarily on now or immediate impact, I'd pick Draper. You know what you get from him pretty much every game with hustle and hard work. However, if he returns, it's all but his last year probably.

Long-term, it is Hudler without question. You don't know night in/out the effort or output you will get from him, I wouldn't miss him all that much if he got traded, but I think this is the year whether we know if last year was just subpar/an abberation, or if the KHL/adjustment affects him long-term.

If it was a given that Hudler was going to be traded, I'd go with Draper. But since that is not fully known, I'll pick Hudler, largely because he still has a lot of years left in him.

#40 Z and D for the C

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:36 PM

Poll: Draper or Hudler? (54 member(s) have cast votes)
Who would you rather have on the Red Wings?

Draper (26 votes [54.17%] - View)

Hudler (22 votes [45.83%] - View)

So here's my breakdown:
21 people are looking at this logically and chose Hudler
1 person (eva) chose Hudler, well, because, come on...

16 people have irrational Hudler hate and would take a goat on skates over him at this point
6 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper
4 people are still stuck in the late 90's and think Shanahan and Fedorov are still viable options and don't even know half the guys on the current team


Actually I only chose Hudler so I would have a reason to post things about how awesome Filppula is. :(

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