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Draper or Hudler?


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#41 stevkrause

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:51 PM

Actually I only chose Hudler so I would have a reason to post things about how awesome Filppula is. :(

I still count that as falling into the logical category

Edited by stevkrause, 21 July 2011 - 09:52 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#42 stinky fish taco

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:47 AM

holland on draper:

"His role is not as important as it was two or three years ago,"

he's being generous since draper really hasn't been important in even longer, but i like the honesty.

Helm is a perennial Selke candidate

LOL

#43 xtrememachine1

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:09 AM

I voted for Draper. I felt much more comfortable when he was on the ice than Hudler. Considering Hudler is supposed to be better offensively, last year he only scored 4 more goals than Draper and played in 30 more games than him. Draper isn't what he used to be, but in a limited role as a 3rd or 4th liner, he's still effective. Good on faceoffs, still has some speed, defensively responsible and he brought out the best in Darren Helm when they played on the same line.

#44 stevkrause

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:42 AM

Poll: Draper or Hudler? (84 member(s) have cast votes)
Who would you rather have on the Red Wings?

Draper (39 votes [51.32%] - View)

Hudler (37 votes [48.68%] - View)

My NEW Breakdown:
36 people are looking at this logically and chose Hudler
1 person (eva) chose Hudler, well, because, come on...

18 people have irrational Hudler hate and would take a goat on skates over him at this point
11 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper
4 people are still stuck in the late 90's and think Shanahan and Fedorov are still viable options and don't even know half the guys on the current team
2 people thought the question was "Which player is taller" and chose Draper
2 people clicked on the wrong button and can't figure out how to use the "Delete My Vote" button
1 person thought it said Drake and still wants him back
1 person just wants locker room hijinx to remain in tact and whip cream pies to the face to remain and chose Draper

Edited by stevkrause, 22 July 2011 - 08:37 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#45 55fan

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:01 AM

YOU disagree with ME! YOU are, therefore, DELUSIONAL! YOUR opinion is DIFFERENT; therefore, it is WRONG!

Ok, got the Internet Poll Mindset out of the way.

I picked Draper.

No one knows whether or not the Chosen One will have a good or bad season, but at least with Draper, we get whipped cream.

Money on the board:  Current total: $6

$1 for a goal by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster.  An additional $5 for a series-clinching goal scored by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster. $5 if the other team fails to score against a current Wing goalie after whom I have named a hamster.

Hamsters I have had:  (current Wings highlighted)

Henrik Pavel Tomas Nicklas Dominik

Niklas Matthew Daniel Robert

Johan Andreas Valtteri Jonathan

Andrew Patrick Ian Todd

Jordin Damien Gustav James


#46 stevkrause

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:07 AM

YOU disagree with ME! YOU are, therefore, DELUSIONAL! YOUR opinion is DIFFERENT; therefore, it is WRONG!

Ok, got the Internet Poll Mindset out of the way.

I picked Draper.

No one knows whether or not the Chosen One will have a good or bad season, but at least with Draper, we get whipped cream.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you fall in this category - and there's nothing wrong with this mindset, I can appreciate it:

12 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper


The ones that drive me insane, are the ones that want Hudler gone at all costs and would vote for the other option regardless...

Edited by stevkrause, 22 July 2011 - 08:09 AM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#47 55fan

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:13 AM

You disappoint me, Steve. You didn't go with the whipped cream comment. :P

Money on the board:  Current total: $6

$1 for a goal by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster.  An additional $5 for a series-clinching goal scored by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster. $5 if the other team fails to score against a current Wing goalie after whom I have named a hamster.

Hamsters I have had:  (current Wings highlighted)

Henrik Pavel Tomas Nicklas Dominik

Niklas Matthew Daniel Robert

Johan Andreas Valtteri Jonathan

Andrew Patrick Ian Todd

Jordin Damien Gustav James


#48 stevkrause

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:38 AM

You disappoint me, Steve. You didn't go with the whipped cream comment. :P

check my breakdown again ;)

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#49 55fan

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:39 AM

check my breakdown again ;)

Now you're rolling!

BTW, I was just funning with you. I was amused by your breakdown.

Money on the board:  Current total: $6

$1 for a goal by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster.  An additional $5 for a series-clinching goal scored by any current Wing after whom I have named a hamster. $5 if the other team fails to score against a current Wing goalie after whom I have named a hamster.

Hamsters I have had:  (current Wings highlighted)

Henrik Pavel Tomas Nicklas Dominik

Niklas Matthew Daniel Robert

Johan Andreas Valtteri Jonathan

Andrew Patrick Ian Todd

Jordin Damien Gustav James


#50 stevkrause

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:43 AM

Now you're rolling!

BTW, I was just funning with you. I was amused by your breakdown.

I assumed as much and thank you :D

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#51 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:32 AM

Hudler by so far it's not even funny.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#52 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:13 PM

Hudler. No question.
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#53 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 01:50 PM

*GRAND ENTRANCE*

*applause*

Thank you all, and yes, now the real fun begins.


Poll: Draper or Hudler? (54 member(s) have cast votes)
Who would you rather have on the Red Wings?

Draper (26 votes [54.17%] - View)

Hudler (22 votes [45.83%] - View)

So here's my breakdown:
21 people are looking at this logically and chose Hudler
1 person (eva) chose Hudler, well, because, come on...

16 people have irrational Hudler hate and would take a goat on skates over him at this point
6 people love Draper and are rational people, but would admit they want Draper back just because of the love for him and would admit Hudler is a better option at this stage, but still chose Draper
4 people are still stuck in the late 90's and think Shanahan and Fedorov are still viable options and don't even know half the guys on the current team


I was actually the 42nd person to vote for Hudler. It put them into a tie at 42 each.

Actually I only chose Hudler so I would have a reason to post things about how awesome Filppula is. :(


Irrelevant to the question. Filppula is clearly more valuable than either. Draper won't even play regularly if you bring him back and waive Hudler. Filppula is better than Draper defensively, he's more important to the penalty kill, and he's better offensively. And while both Hudler and Filppula would be regulars, Filppula is more important for the reasons I listed above, plus his advantage in that he is a more capable NHL center, and better on faceoffs. Hudler is better offensively, but not so much that a powerful team like the Wings couldn't make the sacrifice of Hudler to get a more solid two-way player like Filppula.

As for Huds vs Draper...

Are you guys on crack???

Draper's skills are that he's good on faceoffs, he's a pretty decent penalty killer, and he's fast.

Let's compare that to the rest of the roster.

Faceoffs: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Helm, Franzen, and Abdelkader all are capable faceoff men. Draper is not really a significant upgrade, if at all, over any of them.
PK: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Cleary, Filppula, Abdelkader, Miller, Helm, and Eaves are all better penalty killers.

So ultimately, Draper brings speed. So does Chris Conner. Better speed than Draper, and he's younger. And signed. And there's Helm and Mursak also. Eaves and Cleary also have excellent speed. So why is Draper necessary, regardless of Hudler?

Let's look at what Hudler brings.

Hudler has a very good shot, is an excellent playmaker, and has incredible offensive awareness.

Shot: Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk have better shots. Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Eaves also have good shots.
Playmaking: Datsyuk and maybe Zetterberg are better. Filppula is good also.
Offensive awareness: Datsyuk and again, maybe Zetterberg are better.

So as you can see, Hudler brings more to the team that Draper. By a fairly wide margin. If both were to have the same statistical performances they did last year, Hudler would be the more valuable player. Draper would be the #14 forward. Hudler would be one of the team's more productive scorers. If Hudler performs more along the lines of his second half last year and his 2008-09 season, he would be finishing third on the team in scoring. Second if Dats or Z misses a lot of games again this year.

So... A solid scorer who could be one of the team leaders in goals and points if he plays like he has in the recent past, or a spare part? And half have voted spare part. I suppose this makes sense from people who were upset that a ridiculously overpaid McCarty was cut loose after the lockout.

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#54 Barrie

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 02:13 PM

I honestly don't understand how any one here could choose a 40 year old Draper over a 27 year old Hudler. This isn't mean tto knock Draper what so ever but the blind hatred of Hudler is ridiculous. Look at team needs versus roster players. Not to mention that if Hudler even has a decent year he will most likely be re-signed and continue to provide something to this franchise. Draper is on his last legs and although he brings a lot to the franchise in terms of morale, experience etc. it just doesn't make sense in my mind to give up on a 27 year old with one bad season in favour of a 40 year old who would most likely play about 40 games next season and then retire.

People on this board weren't happy about losing Ritola last year in favour of keeping Draper. People still hold a grudge about Holland losing Quincey in favour Chelios. Those were two players who, at the time, were completely unestablished at the NHL level. Now this poll is asking if you'd rather a last-legs 40 year old Draper over a 27 year old established player in Hudler. That's absurd...the people on this board (come the end of this season) would be calling Holland and idiot and quoting Quincey and Ritola as prior evidence of a growing trend.

Agree 100%! As big a Draper fan I've been over the years, Hudler's only 27 and can easily bounce back and score 20-25 goals next year.

I'm actually shocked the poll, when I voted, was 50/50.

So... A solid scorer who could be one of the team leaders in goals and points if he plays like he has in the recent past, or a spare part? And half have voted spare part. I suppose this makes sense from people who were upset that a ridiculously overpaid McCarty was cut loose after the lockout.[/font]

As mentioned I voted Hudler, without having to think about it, but I was upset when we cut McCarty loose after the lock out. :lol:
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#55 dragonballgtz

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 03:58 PM

Draper, he played with hustle in the playoffs something Hudler didn't do. Also I thought Helm played better with Draper on his wing. When Draper was put back into the line-up in the SJ series I could see Helm trying harder.

#56 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 05:10 PM

Draper, he played with hustle in the playoffs something Hudler didn't do. Also I thought Helm played better with Draper on his wing. When Draper was put back into the line-up in the SJ series I could see Helm trying harder.


Hudler was the team's third or fourth best forward in the Phoenix series. You may or may not think he was hustling... but he was definitely a big part in the Wings' first round win. He wasn't productive early in the San Jose series, and was vilified for it, but he certainly was still working out there. Maybe he wasn't working as hard as Draper. I wasn't measuring with my magic wand. But the fact is this. The ONLY value Draper has to this team is his ability on faceoffs. Ask yourself: Do you want a 40 year-old faceoff specialist (who will probably spend more time in the press box than on the ice) instead of a 27 year-old top-six winger with impressive playmaking skills and offensive awareness? If you answered yes to that question, you are not concerned with whether the team wins or loses.
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#57 uk_redwing

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:39 PM

Hudler. We'd at least be able to get SOMETHING from him in a trade. Like a 7th pick in 2013.

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#58 Barrie

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:40 PM

One thing I don't think people realize with Hudler, he's in a contract year, so you know he's going to put up good numbers.
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#59 eva unit zero

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:18 PM

One thing I don't think people realize with Hudler, he's in a contract year, so you know he's going to put up good numbers.


You're thinking of Zherdev. In fact, I think most people who voted "Draper" may have Hudler confused with Zherdev. Given that many were in the Zherdev thread asking for his addition, yet want Draper over Hudler due to hard work and defensive ability.
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#60 stevkrause

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:57 PM

About f'in time this poll went the right way! I can't even believe it was this close, let alone tipped the other way this long...

Edited by stevkrause, 22 July 2011 - 08:57 PM.

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.






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