Detroit Fans Have Turned Ugly

[dallas27 7]

I'm 99% sure this was just a reprint from about a yearish ago

I'm pretty sure whoever wrote this is an idiot so let's break this down;

I was born and raised in the Detroit area and have followed our teams all my life. I went away to serve our country for 22 years and returned to the area in 2007. Not much has changed in terms of the things that make Detroit unique. Sure, we now have the Palace, Ford Field and Comerica Park. All great venues. And we still have the Joe, which stinks but still feels like home.

Well let's take a look at the mayors of Detroit during your service - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Detroit. Coleman Young. Dennis Archer. Kwame Kilpatrick. And you say things haven't changed? I wonder why? Look at the pictures before Coleman Young. Notice anything? But yea, things are gonna be different and better when white people are LITERALLY AFRAID to go downtown.

I always look back at my youth with fond memories of supporting our teams among the greatest fans in the world. My stint in the military provided opportunities to see every sport in many venues. I found myself telling anyone who would listen how loyal Detroit fans are and that they're the best in the world.

Hit the nail on the head, this is still true

When I returned in 2007, I was horrified to find that I had been telling a lie. Our grandfathers must be turning over in their graves regarding the constant whining of Detroit fans. I don't even know how some of you can call yourself fans -- or whether you even enjoy the games. For those of us who do still enjoy it, our experience is tarnished by your sense of entitlement. If some of you only knew how many municipalities are begging just to have a pro team, perhaps you would show some respect.

In retail / entertainment the teams are trying to sell you something. Well in this business you simply aren't going to make everyone happy. The customer is always right and even if you have evidence to disprove that person the customer still thinks / is right. And that person, no matter how misinformed and idiotic they sound ARE STILL RIGHT and they will let you know aboot it. This will NEVER change.

It seems that many of us believe we can coach, manage or run the day-to-day operations of our sports teams better than anyone else. Some of us even think they are better players and athletes, even though they were second-string in high school. I find it difficult to understand why many of you even attend the games. It seems that you believe you have license to complain about every aspect of every play and the result of every game. If that's the case, you at least should realize that if you were worth your weight in snot, you would be out there playing or coaching yourself.

Many of us? Thanks for lumping everyone into the same category. No s*** you're gonna get a drunken fool that thought he was hot s*** in high school rambling "COME ON INGE, I CAN HIT THE BALL BETTER THAN THAT." That's a bad example, many of us can. Regardless, you'll always have people like this. Why? Because our species is actually rather stupid and ignorant. That's the simple answer. Thank you, Bill Hicks. Please escort your children out of the room - youtube.com/watch?v=3R8jPSijVsg

The concept of being a fan is fairly simple. It starts with loving the sport. If you do, the experience should be great, win or lose. A true fan supports their team, its players and its coaches through thick and thin. Last time I checked, fans don't call plays, select players, fill out lineups nor participate. Your job is to cheer or boo. I guess some of us want to use sports to deflect personal failures. I listen to local sports radio from time to time, and it is amazing how much hatred is out there among people who call themselves fans.

So this person thinks losing is a great experience? What kind of f***ed up idea is that? Yea man, I went to the game and my team lost 10-0 but man was it a GREAT game. Are you out of your mind?

The time has come for some of you to look in the mirror. Detroit once was an incredible place with the greatest fans in the world. It isn't anymore. Our communities used to thrive with people raising their children with pride and reaching out to their neighbors. You felt a sense of unity when you walked down the street. Victory was sweet, and defeat was painful, but the support was never in doubt.

Detroit once was an incredible place, 1000000% correct. But see there was kinda the great white flight, I don't think that really helped and surely you were around for that. And when you were on tour even more s*** went down, IDK if you paid attention or not but I feel you didn't. It's pretty simple to see why Detroit isn't the incredible place it once was. But unfortunately this guy doesn't realize sports is the ONLY thing keeping us unified. Unless you are part of the artard "NO MAN, MSU IS SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCHHHHH BETTER THEN UM. "UH-UH MAN, YOU'RE AN IDIOT, UM IS BETTER TIMES INFINITY." Do us all a favor and stop rooting for either one. Or just don't voice your opinion, you are beyond annoying.

Now we have become a place where many complain yet offer no solutions. We complain that our neighborhoods are falling apart yet do nothing to make it better. We rant and rave and evaluate others without doing anything ourselves. Sometimes I wish these franchises would leave town. Having been all over this country, I'm beginning to believe that there are places much more deserving of these teams than we are. Some of our fans deserve to be fired.

The secret answer? That's what the government wants. We complain yet don't do anything because we don't know how to do anything without the government helping. Just the way they want it, buh-bye middle class. This person has been all around the country, I feel it'd be safe to assume they noticed how it isn't nearly as ugly and desperate as it is in Michigan. It's a lot easier to not worry about everyday life when you aren't worried about making your next mortgage payment.

It's more Detroit has turned ugly, not the fans. Up until I started going to Chi-Town on a semi-regular basis I was opppttiimmiisstic about Detroit. Yea, we'll be back. Things are gonna turn around in no time. I'm afraid not. It'll be a long, painfully slow process if they want to attain that great city status again. Detroit is at least a hundred years away from being what Chicago or any great city is.

Edited July 22, 2011 by dallas27

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

I was gonna say that but I didn't wanna start a big s*** typhoon, but I'm not surprised you'd jump at the opportunity

It's all in good fun.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I think the author is on to something. I was in pure disbelief when DRW fans on message forums started crying when Sharks landed Brent Burns and acted like it was all Holland's fault. DRW fans were pissed because they think Wild would easily take Hudler + Kindl for Burns and a 2nd... then rant on that Holland didn't even try. That entire thing just really amazed me how ignorant some DRW fans (arm chair GMs) really are. This time of year is always the same, they expect Holland to make a block buster signing/trades at all costs, no matter how bad it hurts the future, just for the sake of making block buster signings/trades.

Then the Ericsson re-signing really took the cake. Lol. People thought Ericsson, despite probably being worth $3.5+ in the open market, should take no more than $1 million from Holland. When Holland gave him a slightly over-paid contract, which will likely be considered a bargain in year or so, Red Wings fans went ape s*** like he wiped his ass with the American flag or something, while completely ignoring that his cap hit doesn't hurt the team what-so-ever.

I have to agree with the author, he is right that DRWs are the most unrealistic and unappreciative fans in the game.

Are we talking about the same open market that constantly over pays players? A lot of people were [pissed because Big-E hasn't played up to the money that he got considering what the wings usually pay for players that play similar to him. It was all about what the wings and Holland do most of the time and what they gave E was a bit of a shocker considering. Yea lets give E more than what he's worth now just because we think he may be awesome down the road....That sounds a lot better in your eyes right?

Far as the Burns thing you are taking a handful of fans on this board and maybe others that said anything like that and you are lumping the whole lot in.

Edited July 22, 2011 by hillbillywingsfan

[Red Wings Addict 787]

...or Zetterberg kicked out of the face-off dot.

Or Franzen losing a puck battle.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Who really cares about people's opinions anyway? If you're a fan of a team it really shouldn't bother you what others think about the fanbase

[Guest Heaten]

Are we talking about the same open market that constantly over pays players? A lot of people were [pissed because Big-E hasn't played up to the money that he got considering what the wings usually pay for players that play similar to him. It was all about what the wings and Holland do most of the time and what they gave E was a bit of a shocker considering. Yea lets give E more than what he's worth now just because we think he may be awesome down the road....That sounds a lot better in your eyes right?

Far as the Burns thing you are taking a handful of fans on this board and maybe others that said anything like that and you are lumping the whole lot in.

Supply and demand. Not a lot of better options this offseason with Ericsson's size, shot and upside. All the decent defensemen got grossly overpaid with long and horrible contracts. If Holland is going to overpay, he's going to overpay only slightly with the projection that the player will become an absolute bargain in the near future (see Kronwall).

Yea lets give E more than what he's worth now just because we think he may be awesome down the road....That sounds a lot better in your eyes right?

Worked out fine for both Datsyuk and Kronwall. Holland thinks Ericsson will play to the potential, you gotta give him the benefit of the doubt since he (and his supporting cast) have the best hockey brain trust in the world at their disposal. But yeah, lets believe a few random arm chair LGWs posters who probably don't even know the rules of a proper faceoff for their hockey analysis of a mid 20s defenseman. Lol!

Holland has a pretty damn good track record. He's a professional in his field that doesn't need a random message hockey forum to rant his hockey beliefs in xBox or PSP NHL11 slang, he's too busy building NHL championship teams the past decade.

I don't know what the average LGWs forum poster does for a living, perhaps hang drywall (for example), I doubt we'll see Jim Nill complaining like a little school girl to contractors as to the proper way to mud, sand and paint drywall... he's too busy making millions of dollars by helping the Detroit Red Wings be the most successful hockey team the past 14+ years straight....

I grilled chicken on the grill tonight, I am going to call the KFC headquarters to tell them their franchise are making chicken the wrong way the past 50 years. Lol! /sarcasm

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Supply and demand. Not a lot of better options this offseason with Ericsson's size, shot and upside. All the decent defensemen got grossly overpaid with long and horrible contracts. If Holland is going to overpay, he's going to overpay only slightly with the projection that the player will become an absolute bargain in the near future (see Kronwall).

Worked out fine for both Datsyuk and Kronwall. Holland thinks Ericsson will play to the potential, you gotta give him the benefit of the doubt since he (and his supporting cast) have the best hockey brain trust in the world at their disposal. But yeah, lets believe a few random arm chair LGWs posters who probably don't even know the rules of a proper faceoff for their hockey analysis of a mid 20s defenseman. Lol!

Holland has a pretty damn good track record. He's a professional in his field that doesn't need a random message hockey forum to rant his hockey beliefs in xBox or PSP NHL11 slang, he's too busy building NHL championship teams the past decaI don't know what the average LGWs forum poster does for a living, perhaps hang drywall (for example)de.

, I doubt we'll see Jim Nill complaining like a little school girl to contractors as to the proper way to mud, sand and paint drywall... he's too busy making millions of dollars by helping the Detroit Red Wings be the most successful hockey team the past 14+ years straight....

I grilled chicken on the grill tonight, I am going to call the KFC headquarters to tell them their franchise are making chicken the wrong way the past 50 years. Lol /sarcasm

I may be wrong on this and please tell me if i am but if i remember correctly when dats and kronner got there "good pay" was after they showed flashes of the players they are today. to me i never seen 3+ mil from E. That's just me of course. And as fans of a sport we have the right to question sometimes what our team does. Holland and company have not always done the right things to make this team a championship team. I mean they have done it more so then not and they are hands down the best at it. But there are things that have been done that we can question considering.

Wow, someone must be out to get Heaten, I think he makes some pretty valid points but is getting negative reputation

yea not sure who is. thats why i think the whole -/+ is just a bunch of malarkey. I don't agree with him on stuff but im not giving him - about it. but i guess some do.

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

The guy is right for the most part. The last two post seasons have been nothing but whining about officiating when we've faced San Jose. Whenever things don't go our way everybody cries about the officiating. It's getting old.

[number9 3,297]

I think the author is on to something. I was in pure disbelief when DRW fans on message forums started crying when Sharks landed Brent Burns and acted like it was all Holland's fault. DRW fans were pissed because they think Wild would easily take Hudler + Kindl for Burns and a 2nd... then rant on that Holland didn't even try. That entire thing just really amazed me how ignorant some DRW fans (arm chair GMs) really are. This time of year is always the same, they expect Holland to make a block buster signing/trades at all costs, no matter how bad it hurts the future, just for the sake of making block buster signings/trades.

Then the Ericsson re-signing really took the cake. Lol. People thought Ericsson, despite probably being worth $3.5+ in the open market, should take no more than $1 million from Holland. When Holland gave him a slightly over-paid contract, which will likely be considered a bargain in year or so, Red Wings fans went ape s*** like he wiped his ass with the American flag or something, while completely ignoring that his cap hit doesn't hurt the team what-so-ever.

I have to agree with the author, he is right that DRWs are the most unrealistic and unappreciative fans in the game.

hey i can talk all i want, unrealistic or not. i pay to watch this team play, when i go to games and on tv. i had to upgrade my cable to get all the games on tv! and with all the jerseys and crap i buy lol. the wings r a business and i have been an extremely loyal customer. god knos how many years of my life ive spent obsessing about the wings and hockey. anyway what im saying is that DRW's fans are crazy and we expect alot. some of us of have givin large portions of our lives to this team. i mean some hockey teams fan sites dont explode when (insert players name here) loses a battle for the puck. im proud of how crazy loyal and obsessed with the wings ppl are here. ill say the craziest thing about any random dream trade idea just to talk about the wings somemore. and i will freak out when the tiniest thing i dont like or understand happens. because i love the wings. rock on DRW's fans

[Guest Heaten]

I may be wrong on this and please tell me if i am but if i remember correctly when dats and kronner got there "good pay" was after they showed flashes of the players they are today. to me i never seen 3+ mil from E. That's just me of course. And as fans of a sport we have the right to question sometimes what our team does. Holland and company have not always done the right things to make this team a championship team. I mean they have done it more so then not and they are hands down the best at it. But there are things that have been done that we can question considering.

yea not sure who is. thats why i think the whole -/+ is just a bunch of malarkey. I don't agree with him on stuff but im not giving him - about it. but i guess some do.

Ericsson showed some good flashes as well. See the SCF game #7, the only goal scorer. He was a monster in his first NHL appearance. Early on, in some games he looked like a future #4. IN his first NHL season, he looked like a fringe NHLer at times.

Not that it matters, but someone dug up some old posts about Datsyuk's contracts and some people were absolutely irate. I believe the LGWs trend at the time was trade Datsyuk + picks for Yashin... Now he's arguably the top 3 forward currently in the NHL...

I remember lots of people were pissed about Kronwall's contract and thought he wouldn't be worth his contract til the last year, which was considered a bad contract. ...And the cycle repeats itself with Ericsson.

[number9 3,297]

Ericsson showed some good flashes as well. See the SCF game #7, the only goal scorer. He was a monster in his first NHL appearance. Early on, in some games he looked like a future #4. IN his first NHL season, he looked like a fringe NHLer at times.

Not that it matters, but someone dug up some old posts about Datsyuk's contracts and some people were absolutely irate. I believe the LGWs trend at the time was trade Datsyuk + picks for Yashin... Now he's arguably the top 3 forward currently in the NHL...

I remember lots of people were pissed about Kronwall's contract and thought he wouldn't be worth his contract til the last year, which was considered a bad contract. ...And the cycle repeats itself with Ericsson.

so what? thats why were all in armchairs and not hollands chair. people will have opposing opinions on players, its a forum.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Well let's take a look at the mayors of Detroit during your service - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Detroit. Coleman Young. Dennis Archer. Kwame Kilpatrick. And you say things haven't changed? I wonder why? Look at the pictures before Coleman Young. Notice anything? But yea, things are gonna be different and better when white people are LITERALLY AFRAID to go downtown.

What exactly is it I'm supposed to notice? Could you clarify for me?

[Guest Heaten]

so what? thats why were all in armchairs and not hollands chair. people will have opposing opinions on players, its a forum.

There was a thread recently called "Holland's appreciation thread" that was created just to bash Holland. I don't get all the Holland hate on this forum sometimes. I try to be objective to understand why so many are so disgusted with him, but there really is no logic behind it; he is keeping this team competitive year in, year out... that is success just in itself. There are 29 other NHL hockey teams in the league wishing they had Holland's "failures", while bringing 4 cups back to hockey town the past 15 years.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

There are 29 other NHL hockey teams in the league wishing they had Holland's "failures", while bringing 4 cups back to hockey town the past 15 years.

Well, 3 as a GM.

But if you're listening to Holland's detractors, he inherited a cup in 1998, he bought a cup in 2002 and simply got lucky in 2008.

[number9 3,297]

There was a thread recently called "Holland's appreciation thread" that was created just to bash Holland. I don't get all the Holland hate on this forum sometimes. I try to be objective to understand why so many are so disgusted with him, but there really is no logic behind it; he is keeping this team competitive year in, year out... that is success just in itself. There are 29 other NHL hockey teams in the league wishing they had Holland's "failures", while bringing 4 cups back to hockey town the past 15 years.

holland has a level of patience and foresight that most of us will never possess. hes a great gm. that being said, with such a great franchise (arguably the best sports franchise in history) your going to get fans who freak out at everything. there are some of us out here who believe it would be realistic that the wings win the cup every year. and i mean every year lol. so deal with it. i do believe i can run the red wings organization better than holland, i think i can coach better than babs too....i also think that zetterberg and i would be best friends if he would ever answer my emails. and i believe that ericssons contract is crappy, and that we shoulda won the cup every year since 87. hows that for logical

Well, 3 as a GM.

But if you're listening to Holland's detractors, he inherited a cup in 1998, he bought a cup in 2002 and simply got lucky in 2008.

most every argument has some valid points.

[Guest Heaten]

holland has a level of patience and foresight that most of us will never possess. hes a great gm. that being said, with such a great franchise (arguably the best sports franchise in history) your going to get fans who freak out at everything. there are some of us out here who believe it would be realistic that the wings win the cup every year. and i mean every year lol. so deal with it. i do believe i can run the red wings organization better than holland, i think i can coach better than babs too....i also think that zetterberg and i would be best friends if he would ever answer my emails. and i believe that ericssons contract is crappy, and that we shoulda won the cup every year since 87. hows that for logical

most every argument has some valid points.

Speaking of opinions, I think Ericsson could easily be traded right now for a 3rd rounder. Holland used a 9th rounder to get him. So in that sense, he's an asset regardless how he performed in the past. That's why I can't condemn kenny for the Ericsson signing, because no matter what (unless he get's career ending injury), Ericsson has value either in terms of either production... or trade.

I wasn't happy about the Lang trade or when J. Williams re-signed...though the Williams deal wasn't so much Holland's fault because injuries like he suffered are unforeseeable. I am excited to see how the new assistant coaches perform, from I understand is they'll help the younger guys excel. Maybe this is just what Big Rig needs to take that next step.

[RusDRW 155]

22 years of Army is the main reason for "grass was greener back then". Life looks the same when you're following orders all your life while it is naturally changing in a society. Depression as a result of realizing that you whole life was thrown away by your own childish decision... I feel bad for such people.

[Donaldjr2448 43]

22 years of Army is the main reason for "grass was greener back then". Life looks the same when you're following orders all your life while it is naturally changing in a society. Depression as a result of realizing that you whole life was thrown away by your own childish decision... I feel bad for such people.

That is exactly whay I thought when I read this article too. I served in the Navy as well, and I wanted nothing more than to come home to Michigan/Detroit why????? Because its home, not because we hate the Lions organization! All of his opinions valid or not are all open ended and that is not a good premise for an arguement!

[ogreslayer 1,069]

If in saying that Detroit fans are getting uglier, he meant this:

Then I might agree with him

[pucktividi 472]

I didn't know that Crymson was an online columnist.

Then Heaten might be Big E's spin doctor

Edited July 22, 2011 by pucktividi

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Then Heaten might be Big E's spin doctor

nah they are both cool people. they just have strong feelings towards what they believe. there are a lot here like that. its what makes forums interesting.

[bogeygolfer 4]

all i hear is 'bla bla bla'

[Barrie 900]

Wow I can't believe that made the paper! I guess with the NFL and NBA labor problems going on, the Free Press and News can't fill their sports pages.

Absolute garbage!

[eva unit zero 271]

Worked out fine for both Datsyuk and Kronwall. Holland thinks Ericsson will play to the potential, you gotta give him the benefit of the doubt since he (and his supporting cast) have the best hockey brain trust in the world at their disposal. But yeah, lets believe a few random arm chair LGWs posters who probably don't even know the rules of a proper faceoff for their hockey analysis of a mid 20s defenseman. Lol!

Datsyuk was a top flight center in the NHL and received the salary of such. Kronwall was an elite prospect who was on the verge of breaking out and had just had his first full season with any real ice time, and played very well. Datsyuk's salary was fair for his play level at the time and he has since exceeded it. Kronwall was arguably overpaid, but over the length of his deal has more than lived up to the total value.

Datsyuk was two years older than Ericsson is now. Kronwall was a year younger. Ericsson is paid like a top four defenseman, and plays like a #6. He needs to play like a top four soon to prove he's worth his deal, and defensemen generally reach their peak around his age or a couple years later.

Ericsson showed some good flashes as well. See the SCF game #7, the only goal scorer. He was a monster in his first NHL appearance. Early on, in some games he looked like a future #4. IN his first NHL season, he looked like a fringe NHLer at times.

Not that it matters, but someone dug up some old posts about Datsyuk's contracts and some people were absolutely irate. I believe the LGWs trend at the time was trade Datsyuk + picks for Yashin... Now he's arguably the top 3 forward currently in the NHL...

I remember lots of people were pissed about Kronwall's contract and thought he wouldn't be worth his contract til the last year, which was considered a bad contract. ...And the cycle repeats itself with Ericsson.

Justin Abdelkader played his first two NHL games in the Stanley Cup Finals and scored a goal in each game. Does that mean he'll be deserving of a $3m-$4m cap hit on his next deal? That's basically what you're saying here.

As far as the actual point of the thread (this is NOT a Jonathan Ericsson thread, please return that argument to that thread, ok?) I think the article is somewhere in the middle. Detroit fans do go a bit overboard at times. One example, which I bring up because of the photo attached, is Joey Harrington. He was a very good quarterback and posted very good numbers, but the team simply didn't win. So he was crucified for it. Wayne Fontes was the best coach the Lions have had since the 1960s. Loved by players, successful with an organization that was terrible for decades before and has been less successful in terms of division titles and playoff appearances and wins in the nearly 20 years since he was fired than the handful of seasons he was here. Yet because of how vilified he was by fans, he often gets called "the worst coach ever" simply because he couldn't take a mediocre team to the Super Bowl. He couldn't use the few good players he had and win a championship. Chris Osgood played goal for the Wings and was one of the league's best goalies for most of his career. He was nominated for the Vezina in 1996. He won the Cup in 1998, playing stellar in net. He doesn't get proper credit because the team repeated, but had traded Mike Vernon, who started for the 1997 Cup. Vernon, however, played behind Vladimir Konstantinov, the best defenseman in the world at the time, as well as Nicklas Lidstrom, one of the two best defensemen of All-Time. Osgood did not have Konstantinov, a huge blow to the team. Brandon Inge has been one of baseball's elite defensive players, and a good power hitter. Yet because of his low batting average, and possibly because he switched positions (suggesting he wasn't good enough at any single position) many fans despised him and wanted him replaced by, well, anybody. And of course, the obligatory mention of Jiri Hudler, who gets unreasonable amounts of hate despite being one of the better forwards on the Wings. Starting last season on a slump didn't help, but his finish to the year seemed to be completely ignored by those who dislike him. The fact that he is not particularly liked by his coach due to his size and speed also lead to problems for him as far as fan hate.

That is the point of the article, and why it does have SOME merit.

[pucktividi 472]

nah they are both cool people. they just have strong feelings towards what they believe. there are a lot here like that. its what makes forums interesting.

Was just kidding,both are quality posters