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namedafterstevie

The Real Osgood Question

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Everyone is debating whether or not Osgood should make the hall of fame. However, I think a more pressing question is whether or not Osgood will hang in the rafters next to the other retired numbers? Is Yzerman going to be the only one from the 90s-00s era to make it there? While I think that Lidstrom will end up being the only one from the era to join him up there, I feel that Shanny, McCarty, and Ozzie's case for a banner should at least be made.

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Ozzie you can make a case for, same for Fedorov and Shanahan but McCarty just isn't the caliber player we retire, if you're going to do him then you'd have to look at the entire grindline.

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Is he as good as or better than Sawchuck?

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Everyone is debating whether or not Osgood should make the hall of fame. However, I think a more pressing question is whether or not Osgood will hang in the rafters next to the other retired numbers? Is Yzerman going to be the only one from the 90s-00s era to make it there? While I think that Lidstrom will end up being the only one from the era to join him up there, I feel that Shanny, McCarty, and Ozzie's case for a banner should at least be made.

Hasn't Ilitch pretty much said that they reserve that for Wings that make the HoF? Even if Ozzie does get in (and I think he should), I just don't see his jersey going up in the rafters. You might be able to make a case for Shanny but I think it would be a weak one. McCarty though? No chance.

I actually think there's a better case for Fedorov if you look at the impact he had on the team. Once you start factoring in the attempted jump to Carolina & the way he ultimately left the team, I think he pretty much burned that bridge though. Lids is obviously the next to go up & the two to debate after that will be Dats & Hank.

Edited by ogreslayer

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Is he as good as or better than Sawchuck?

This is a valid question, and one I've been pondering since discussion came up about this.

If it is agreed that Osgood is better, then he belongs up with Terry. If not, I really don't think so.

I can't come to a good conclusion. The eras were different. Terry played with no back-up and through all sorts of pain and injuries and troubles. Terry's life was tragic, as was his death.

All of this makes it hard to have an objective comparison as to which is better, and if Ozzie belongs there.

My heart says yes. My head says no. My stomach says go cook some spaghetti.

lookalive07 likes this

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No, but I would like to see him in the HoF. I have nothing against Osgood (he was one of my favorite players), but I don't think his number should be in the rafters. He simply was a good (and extremely likeable) part of a great team(s), much like Z is now. I think the rafters are reserved for players who elevate the franchise, and I don't think Osgood did that like Steve or Lids have in recent years. IMO if Osgood's number goes up, there are a lot of other numbers that will be debated.

If there is a debate, I don't think the number belongs in the rafters.

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i think ozzie should make the HOF but he'll barely make it. he certainly wont make it to the rafters. the next numbers in the rafters will be 5, 13, and 40.

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i think ozzie should make the HOF but he'll barely make it. he certainly wont make it to the rafters. the next numbers in the rafters will be 5, 13, and 40.

5 of course, 13 is on his way, 40 still has some 'splaining to do.

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Sometimes I wonder why I even post...

In three threads I have suggested already that the two of these questions are linked.

I believe that the only way they hang his number is if he is inducted into the HoF.

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Yeah, the Wings aren't really quick to hang jerseys in the rafters. I think the only number we'll see in the rafters any time soon is #5.

If Zetterberg remains a Wing for his entire career, I think he probably earns a spot up there - but I don't know that we'll be seeing others for awhile.

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Sometimes I wonder why I even post...

In three threads I have suggested already that the two of these questions are linked.

I believe that the only way they hang his number is if he is inducted into the HoF.

The two are most definitely linked. No hall=no rafters, but getting into the hall in no way guarantees the rafters.

They are similar, yet different. Induction into the hall involves comparison to other goalies; retiring the jersey involves comparison to past Wings of all positions, although a comparison to Sawchuck is the one that would make or break the rafters argument.

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The two are most definitely linked. No hall=no rafters, but getting into the hall in no way guarantees the rafters.

It's like the relationship between a square and a rectangle. :blink:

But I agree, though.

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The two are most definitely linked. No hall=no rafters, but getting into the hall in no way guarantees the rafters.

They are similar, yet different. Induction into the hall involves comparison to other goalies; retiring the jersey involves comparison to past Wings of all positions, although a comparison to Sawchuck is the one that would make or break the rafters argument.

That is my belief as well. Though I personally think the organization will retire his number provided he is in the hall of fame because he was a good solider for them. That is his X factor, but it still is dependent on being in the HoF.

Also apologies if I sounded like a prick in the last post.

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As I've said all along, he deserves to be in the HOF, does not belong in the rafters and neither does Shanny or Fedorov... that is Red Wing exclusivity, that only goes to the most extreme of cases... Lidstrom is the only player other than Yzerman from the last 30+ years that belongs in the rafters and even Hank and Dats need to bring at LEAST 2 more cups here and play their entire careers here (which I'm sure they will) PLUS be HOF bound, before either of them can be considered either...

Travis likes this

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Everyone is debating whether or not Osgood should make the hall of fame. However, I think a more pressing question is whether or not Osgood will hang in the rafters next to the other retired numbers? Is Yzerman going to be the only one from the 90s-00s era to make it there? While I think that Lidstrom will end up being the only one from the era to join him up there, I feel that Shanny, McCarty, and Ozzie's case for a banner should at least be made.

Ozzie yes.

Shanny maybe.

McCarty no.

and because it was mentioned

Fedorov hell no.

Ozzie I consider a career Red Wing, he spent four seasons away from the Wings because the Wings had Hasek, Cujo, and Legace in that time frame, most prominently. Shanny, I'm not so sure, he spent more seasons with other teams than the Wings, I'm in doubt. McCarty.. no, his accomplishments weren't nearly of the same standard that Ozzie had. Fedorov, monster stats, but the way he left the organization stains the good he did, and burned bridges. I don't believe the Red Wings organization would want Fedorov's number retired and if they ever did retire his number it would be due to pressure from outside of it.

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Is he as good as or better than Sawchuck?

This is a valid question, and one I've been pondering since discussion came up about this.

If it is agreed that Osgood is better, then he belongs up with Terry. If not, I really don't think so.

I can't come to a good conclusion. The eras were different. Terry played with no back-up and through all sorts of pain and injuries and troubles. Terry's life was tragic, as was his death.

All of this makes it hard to have an objective comparison as to which is better, and if Ozzie belongs there.

My heart says yes. My head says no. My stomach says go cook some spaghetti.

Are you guys joking? :blink:

Sawchuk is one of the 5 greatest goalies of all time. Osgood isn't even close to being as good as him. Whether Ozzie should be in the rafters has nothing to do with Sawchuk. You guys talk about Sawchuk as if he's just another solid goalie.

I say if Red Kelly isn't in the rafters, then Ozzie shouldn't be either. Same with Fedorov. Both those players were better Wings than Osgood, and neither will likely get a banner.

haroldsnepsts and Jedi like this

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Are you guys joking? :blink:

Sawchuk is one of the 5 greatest goalies of all time. Osgood isn't even close to being as good as him. Whether Ozzie should be in the rafters has nothing to do with Sawchuk. You guys talk about Sawchuk as if he's just another solid goalie.

I say if Red Kelly isn't in the rafters, then Ozzie shouldn't be either. Same with Fedorov. Both those players were better Wings than Osgood, and neither will likely get a banner.

Sawchuk was the greatest goaltender of all time. Just saying.

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If they aren't going to retire it, and they probably shouldn't, they should take #30 out of circulation for a few years, then in 2018-19 or something re-introduce it.

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Just to clarify- Yes, Sawchuck was one of the greatest ever.

What I was saying is that the style of hockey, the style of goaltending, and a whole bunch of other factors (especially the presence of a backup goalie) makes it impossible to compare how one would have done against the other if they had played in the same era.

The questions I'm asking myself pretty much involve how they impacted the success of the Wings. That's what gets you into the rafters.

How well you played gets you into the Hall. How you effected the team gets you into the rafters. So I'm asking who was better for the Wings. I don't remember Sawchuck playing for the Wings. I was too young the last time he was here and wasn't around before that. I can only go by what I've read. I don't know how he meshed in the locker room. I've read that he had his problems, but I don't know to what extent they effected his teammates.

There are a lot of intangibles to having one's number retired. How does Osgood compare to Sawchuck outside of the raw stats (assuming that those would be comparable from one era to another)?

I guess the question isn't whether or not he was as good of a goalie. He wasn't. The better question might be whether or not he was as good of a Red Wing. And to that, I have no answer.

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I'm an Ozzy fan, but no, his number shouldn't hang from the rafters.

As I said in another thread, the Wings use an extremely high standard. They pretty much only retire the numbers of elite, franchise players. Ozzy was very good and played for the Wings for a very long time, but he was neither of those things.

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Lidstrom will be the only jersey retired for the next 10-15 years or so.

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BTW, this is the same franchise that gave Uwe Krupp Red Kelly's number.

Just sayin...

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Just to clarify- Yes, Sawchuck was one of the greatest ever.

What I was saying is that the style of hockey, the style of goaltending, and a whole bunch of other factors (especially the presence of a backup goalie) makes it impossible to compare how one would have done against the other if they had played in the same era.

The questions I'm asking myself pretty much involve how they impacted the success of the Wings. That's what gets you into the rafters.

How well you played gets you into the Hall. How you effected the team gets you into the rafters. So I'm asking who was better for the Wings. I don't remember Sawchuck playing for the Wings. I was too young the last time he was here and wasn't around before that. I can only go by what I've read. I don't know how he meshed in the locker room. I've read that he had his problems, but I don't know to what extent they effected his teammates.

There are a lot of intangibles to having one's number retired. How does Osgood compare to Sawchuck outside of the raw stats (assuming that those would be comparable from one era to another)?

I guess the question isn't whether or not he was as good of a goalie. He wasn't. The better question might be whether or not he was as good of a Red Wing. And to that, I have no answer.

Chris Osgood:

  • Member of the Stanley Cup Champion Detroit Red Wings - 1997, 1998, 2008 (starting goaltender in 1998 and 2008)
  • 2 time winner of the William M. Jennings Trophy (shared with Mike Vernon - 1996), (shared with Dominik Hasek - 2008)
  • Is currently 10th all-time in wins by an NHL goaltender
  • Played in

    [*]Named to the 1997 NHL All-Star Game but was unable to attend because of an injury.[*]Named to NHL Second All-Star Team after 1995–96 season[*]Named to WHL East Second All-Star Team after 1990–91 season[*]Led NHL in GAA in 2008 (regular season 2.09 & playoffs 1.55)[*]Led NHL in Wins in 1996[*]Scored a goal vs. Hartford Whalers, March 6, 1996.[*]First goaltender since Terry Sawchuk to win Stanley Cups ten years or more apart as a starter (Sawchuk in 1955 and 1967)[*]Became only the 10th goaltender in NHL history to achieve 400 wins on Dec 27th 2010 in a 4-3 overtime win against the Colorado Avalanche[*]4th all time NHL leader in win percentage (53.9%)[*]7th best Goals Against Average (career) of all time (2.49)

Terry Sawchuk:

Stats from wikipedia... Osgood isn't even close. No rookie awards, way less all-star appearances, 1 less cup, no vezinas... it goes on...

Edited by CaliWingsNut

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Stats from wikipedia... Osgood isn't even close. No rookie awards, way less all-star appearances, 1 less cup, no vezinas... it goes on...

You do realize the Jennings now is essentially what the Vezina was in Sawchuk's day, right? From 1946-1981, the Vezina was given to the starting goalie of the team with the fewest goals against- sounds a lot like the Jennings.

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