Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

The Real Osgood Question


  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

#41 Hiei

Hiei

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,290 posts
  • Location:Centerton, AR via Mt. Carroll, IL

Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:02 PM

If Ed Belfour made it to the hall of fame, Chris Osgood is in.


#30 will no longer be worn by a member of the Detroit Red Wings. #5 will no longer be worn by a member of the Detroit Red Wings post-Lidstrom.


Shanahan won't have his number retired here, because he played in too many places (HFD, NJ, NYR, DET, STL)

McCarty won't have his number retired here because aside from flattening Fraude Ledouche in 1997 and scoring the 97 cup winner, what else has he really done? Went to Calgary, had problems, came back, retired.

"Hit em with your purse, ya *****!" - Random Wings fans shouting at Franziska


#42 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,724 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:59 PM

If Ed Belfour made it to the hall of fame, Chris Osgood is in.


#30 will no longer be worn by a member of the Detroit Red Wings. #5 will no longer be worn by a member of the Detroit Red Wings post-Lidstrom.


Shanahan won't have his number retired here, because he played in too many places (HFD, NJ, NYR, DET, STL)

McCarty won't have his number retired here because aside from flattening Fraude Ledouche in 1997 and scoring the 97 cup winner, what else has he really done? Went to Calgary, had problems, came back, retired.


Belfour was one of the 3 or 4 best goalies in the world for about 10 years.

Ozzie was never in that class, period.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 25 July 2011 - 06:59 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#43 Pucks

Pucks

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 680 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:55 PM

LOL Osgood in the rafters? Some of your should play the "which one is not like the others game".

Edited by Pucks, 25 July 2011 - 08:58 PM.


Welcome to the playoffs....where the games get better and the officiating gets worse.


#44 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 26 July 2011 - 07:10 AM

Belfour was one of the 3 or 4 best goalies in the world for about 10 years.

Ozzie was never in that class, period.


During Osgood's career, the top six goalies in the world were, in no order, Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Osgood, and Joseph. Other guys broke into that group at times and had a hot year or two, or an old vet might have a revival, but that was the top handful. If you're saying that Belfour is closer to Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur than he is to Osgood and Joseph... well, let's just say I don't agree.

LOL Osgood in the rafters? Some of your should play the "which one is not like the others game".


Hmm. Gordie Howe; he retired and then when he decided he still wanted to play, went to the WHA.

I win!

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#45 echos myron

echos myron

    swag

  • Restricted
  • Pip
  • 156 posts

Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:54 AM

During Osgood's career, the top six goalies in the world were, in no order, Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Osgood, and Joseph


and there's a pretty obvious drop off after roy, hasek, brodeur, and belfour

#46 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,724 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:00 AM

and there's a pretty obvious drop off after roy, hasek, brodeur, and belfour


That and the fact that most shooters would tell you Belfour was much harder to score on than Osgood.

Ozzie was a good goalie, but not elite. While Belfour ranks behind Hasek, Roy and Brodeur on the all-time list, he was in the same class of those players for many seasons. Ozzie was never in that class. No one thought so back then, and I don't know how anyone can think that now.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#47 Pucks

Pucks

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 680 posts

Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:16 PM

Hmm. Gordie Howe; he retired and then when he decided he still wanted to play, went to the WHA.

I win!



Sorry but this makes no sense. Either you didn't understand my post or quoted the wrong thing?

Edited by Pucks, 26 July 2011 - 02:18 PM.


Welcome to the playoffs....where the games get better and the officiating gets worse.


#48 CaliWingsNut

CaliWingsNut

    PeeWee Bettman

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,744 posts
  • Location:Sonoma County, CA

Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:27 PM

The more I think about it, the less I think he deserves so much honor. I don't think he deserves his banner raised (beforehand I said I wasn't in love with the thought)
He was a good NHL level goalie. His stats were average. The only things that make him a notable player are his length of tenure with the Wings and the success that is linked to it.

Figures don't lie, but liars sure figure. - Mark Twain


#49 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:16 PM

The more I think about it, the less I think he deserves so much honor. I don't think he deserves his banner raised (beforehand I said I wasn't in love with the thought)
He was a good NHL level goalie. His stats were average. The only things that make him a notable player are his length of tenure with the Wings and the success that is linked to it.


I think Ozzie is not given credit for a simple fact. The Wings wouldn't have kept him around for so long, or brought him back, if he wasn't a top end goalie. They would have gone out and gotten a Belfour if he was such an upgrade. Ultimately, Hasek became available for such a low price (Kozlov for Hasek? Sure.) So that's a trade you make, especially with a backup as solid as Legace was proving to be. Holland also expected to be able to trade Osgood, which obviously didn't happen. But he didn't go out and trade for Belfour; he traded for Hasek.

You can argue that Belfour had two Vezinas and that defeats what Osgood did. But Osgood went to the Cup Finals three times as a starter, winning twice. He was a key player in all three runs. According to an article I read the other day, he has the fourth-highest winning percentage of all "qualified" goaltenders; plus a playoff winning percentage that embarrasses a great number of HOFers who played on greater teams. He has one of the highest career win totals in both regular season and playoffs. Whether you like his save percentage or not, he brought home the wins. And no, it wasn't a "His team was stacked like pancakes at IHOP" situation. Osgood won in Detroit. He won in New York. He won in St. Louis. He was a winner. If a 32 year-old Osgood were in net for Vancouver this year instead of 32 year-old Luongo, they would have won the Cup.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#50 sputman

sputman

    4th Line Baggage

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,069 posts
  • Location:Pittsboro, NC

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:19 PM

LOL Osgood in the rafters? Some of your should play the "which one is not like the others game".


not a chance. lidstrom will be up there for sure. osgood's numbers are good but he is in no way in the same class of numbers hanging above the ice (and even one that's not hanging and in all intents and purposes should be *cough* larry aurie *cough*).

it's absurd that there are even some thinking draper's belongs up there. we can't retire all fan favorites otherwise we'll end up like montreal - nothing but numbers 50-90.
Posted Image

#51 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:34 PM

not a chance. lidstrom will be up there for sure. osgood's numbers are good but he is in no way in the same class of numbers hanging above the ice (and even one that's not hanging and in all intents and purposes should be *cough* larry aurie *cough*).

it's absurd that there are even some thinking draper's belongs up there. we can't retire all fan favorites otherwise we'll end up like montreal - nothing but numbers 50-90.


Osgood not in the same class as Larry Aurie?

Osgood was better at his position than Aurie was at his.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#52 sputman

sputman

    4th Line Baggage

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,069 posts
  • Location:Pittsboro, NC

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:41 PM


Osgood not in the same class as Larry Aurie?

Osgood was better at his position than Aurie was at his.


you must have seen aurie in lots of games to make that decision. i apologize.
Posted Image

#53 stinky fish taco

stinky fish taco

    FEED ME NEGS

  • Restricted
  • PipPipPip
  • 668 posts

Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:50 PM

i've had a few drinks...did the OP actually state that you could make a case for darren mccarty's jersey being retired?

just making sure i'm reading that right.

Helm is a perennial Selke candidate

LOL

#54 sputman

sputman

    4th Line Baggage

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,069 posts
  • Location:Pittsboro, NC

Posted 29 July 2011 - 06:04 AM

i've had a few drinks...did the OP actually state that you could make a case for darren mccarty's jersey being retired?

just making sure i'm reading that right.


if that's true than he must have had a few drinks, too.
Posted Image

#55 paulwoodsfan

paulwoodsfan

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 173 posts

Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:50 AM

Much as I loved him, I don't believe Osgood will (or should) make the Hall of Fame or get a banner.

Obviously Lidstrom gets both.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg, if they remain Red Wings for the rest of their careers (Z almost certainly will, Datsyuk has another contract to negotiate in three years) are very likely to get banners and could end up in the Hall as well (Datsyuk more likely for the latter at this point).

I think the Wings will do a "Grind Line" banner honouring Draper, Maltby and McCarty together at some point.

#56 eva unit zero

eva unit zero

    Save the Princess...Save the World

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,734 posts

Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:15 PM

Much as I loved him, I don't believe Osgood will (or should) make the Hall of Fame or get a banner.

Obviously Lidstrom gets both.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg, if they remain Red Wings for the rest of their careers (Z almost certainly will, Datsyuk has another contract to negotiate in three years) are very likely to get banners and could end up in the Hall as well (Datsyuk more likely for the latter at this point).

I think the Wings will do a "Grind Line" banner honouring Draper, Maltby and McCarty together at some point.


What is your reasoning behind Osgood not making the Hall? Because Osgood's achievements and performance are in the same area as these guys, who are in the Hall:

Billy Smith, Gerry Cheevers, Lorne "Gump" Worsley, Grant Fuhr, Johnny Bower.

Chris Osgood gets into the Hall. He's not Roy, he's not Hasek. But he is Hall material.

EDIT: And what makes you think they would put up a "Grind Line" banner? Why wouldn't it include Kocur? How about a "Bruise Brothers" banner?

Edited by eva unit zero, 29 July 2011 - 11:39 PM.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."

#57 thomaz5

thomaz5

    Draftee

  • Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:21 PM

Nope

Edited by thomaz5, 29 July 2011 - 11:22 PM.


#58 paulwoodsfan

paulwoodsfan

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 173 posts

Posted 01 August 2011 - 01:56 PM

What is your reasoning behind Osgood not making the Hall? Because Osgood's achievements and performance are in the same area as these guys, who are in the Hall:

Billy Smith, Gerry Cheevers, Lorne "Gump" Worsley, Grant Fuhr, Johnny Bower.

Chris Osgood gets into the Hall. He's not Roy, he's not Hasek. But he is Hall material.

EDIT: And what makes you think they would put up a "Grind Line" banner? Why wouldn't it include Kocur? How about a "Bruise Brothers" banner?


1. I don't think Osgood has Hall of Fame credentials. He is certainly not at the level of Smith, Fuhr or Bower (four Cups each as starters, IIRC, and considered among the league's top goalies for much of their careers). Worsley and Cheevers may or may not be legitimate HoFers but there are are a lot of guys in from that era who are not, IMO (e.g. Bob Pulford, Clark Gillies). Basing someone's credentials on how he compares to others in an already overstocked Hall of Fame is a way to further degrade the Hall's status. IMO Osgood was a good goalie for a long time an an outstanding team, but was never an elite player. And I want the Hall reserved for elite players.

2. I think the Grind Line was a key component of four Cups and was in some ways symbolic of the team's evolution into the top organization in hockey. The three main members of the line were character/heart-and-soul guys whose importance to the team far outweighed their statistical contributions. Putting them up there as a unit on a single banner would go over very well with Wings fans without overstating their overall importance. Kocur was on the line only briefly in 1997 so I don't see him being included. As for the Bruise Brothers, there are lots of people with fond memories of that pair (I'm one of them) but the Wings never won anything with the two of them in the lineup together, and Probert's well-documented personal issues which led to his eventual departure from Detroit will prevent him from being so honoured.

#59 djohns74

djohns74

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 254 posts

Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:30 PM

Sorry Osgood fans (and I know that, inexplicably, there are many of you out there), but there is zero chance that the Wings retire his number. I'm fairly confident he'll make it into the Hall based on his numbers alone, since that traditionally gets guys in, but no one can convince me that he's on the exceedingly short list (currently 6 guys) of former Red Wings legendary enough to hang from the rafters. It's been mentioned already in this thread, but Lidstrom is without question just as much of a shoe-in as Stevie was, but that is it. Shanahan? Fedorov? Give me a break. Great players with important places in Red Wings history to be sure, but not to the point that they can be mentioned in the same breath as Howe, Lindsay, Sawchuk, Yzerman and Lidstrom. No chance.

Maybe there are one or two others currently on the team that could merit such an honor one day, but in all cases, it will be at least another five years before that question can legitimately be asked, never mind answered.

#60 stormboy

stormboy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,161 posts

Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:49 AM

I haven't been around the game or the team long enough to take a strong stance either way, but I read someone else say that if there's a debate, then the answer should be "No". To me, Yzerman: no debate. Lidstrom: no debate. With Datsyuk and Z, only time will tell (though IM(very)HO there will be at least a debate, which perhaps answers the question for both of them).

There's obviously a lot of back-and-forth when it comes to Ozzie, with some feeling that there shouldn't be a back-and-forth because his number SHOULD be retired while others think there shouldn't be a back-and-forth because it SHOULDN'T. With Lidstrom, there will be no debate in any form. There wasn't with Yzerman.

To me, that's the difference.
________________________________

go wings.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users