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Free agency in 2012


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#1 west1cles

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 12:23 PM

Hey all,
Been reading this forum for going on 5 years now, but this is my first post... I think it must have been this boring-ass offseason that drove me to do it.
Anyways, this year in free agency has started a bit of a transition for the team. We've lost some of the older guys in Rafalski, Osgood (and presumably Draper). It also looks like we'll have a couple young guys move up from the minors to take some forward positions (Mursak and Emmerton to be our 13th and 14th forwards). Is this the start of a trend to move to become younger?
Next year, there are 5 forwards who become FAs.

Helm 
Abdelkader
Bertuzzi
Holmstrom
Hudler

And there looks to be two prospects that could make a good push to move up.

Tatar (will only be 21, but if he can build on last year, he might be ready)
Andersson (will be 23)
My question for you guys is, which of our current forwards will be brought back? For me Helm and Abby are no-brainers. They wouldn't even cost Holland much more than a million to give them both raises. The other three however... my guess is that some of you would like to see all of them go (the exception being eva of course... we all know who would stay if it were up to him ;P ). Out of the three, I'd want to drop 2 of those guys at least. Probably Homer and Hudler, arguably the two worst skaters on the team. Hopefully by that point Mursak will be able to move into a third line role to cover for Hudler, and Tatar can take a top 6 role to move in for Homer. Then you have Emmerton and Andersson rounding out the 13th and 14th spots. I think we could have a much improved forward unit, without making any drastic changes or ridiculous free agent signings.

Sorry, I know its silly putting together a lineup like a season in advance, but this is what it could look like.

Franzen Datsyuk Tatar
Filppula Zetterberg Cleary 
Bertuzzi Abdelkader Mursak
Eaves Helm Miller
Emmerton Andersson

And just think, we could have Nyquist and Pulkkinen coming in the year after that :D. And then Jarnkrok, Sheahan, and Jurco coming in the years after that! The future is bright, my friends... At least at the forward position. Defense, not so much. Even after we bring up Smith next year, there will be a massive hole whenever Lidstrom goes. There will be no choice but to try and sign a big name through free agency I'd say.
(Apologies for using the code style... for some reason I format lines probably when using my phone).

#2 Bannedforlife

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:24 PM

His first post and he's already bagging on Eva! Hilarious!

#3 VM1138

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:49 PM

I don't see Emmerton being around, honestly. He doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and doesn't do what he does well enough to really earn a spot from a veteran. His potential was never rated as all that high, at least not recently.

I do see Tatar coming up soon, though. Smith will be up full time in 2012-13, Tatar might be up full time the season after that, depending on how much experience he gets this year. Everything I've read is that Tatar is being fast-tracked like Smith.

As excited as I am to see that, their impact will take seasons to really be felt. I'm more interested in FA signings in 2012.
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#4 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:57 PM

Helm is the only guy on that list I'd like to have back.
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#5 ogreslayer

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:23 PM

Helm is the only guy on that list I'd like to have back.

Keeping Helm around is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Abby on the other hand, well I don't think it's quite as clear cut & the only way Happy sticks around is if he has a monster season in 2011-12. I really don't see that happening though.

#6 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:42 PM

Keeping Helm around is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Abby on the other hand, well I don't think it's quite as clear cut & the only way Happy sticks around is if he has a monster season in 2011-12. I really don't see that happening though.


Abby didn't do s*** last year in the regular season, and especially in the playoffs.

I don't see much improvement in his game and he hardly seems indispensable. The stupid penalties and lack of fighting doesn't help either.

We can find better 4th liners all around the league.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 24 July 2011 - 10:43 PM.

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#7 west1cles

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:48 PM

Abby didn't do s*** last year in the regular season, and especially in the playoffs.

I don't see much improvement in his game and he hardly seems indispensable. The stupid penalties and lack of fighting doesn't help either.

We can find better 4th liners all around the league.

Yea, I hear ya. And we have three 4th liners already. I'd still keep him around as the 13th forward though.




#8 hockey23

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:23 AM

I don't see Emmerton being around, honestly. He doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and doesn't do what he does well enough to really earn a spot from a veteran. His potential was never rated as all that high, at least not recently.

I do see Tatar coming up soon, though. Smith will be up full time in 2012-13, Tatar might be up full time the season after that, depending on how much experience he gets this year. Everything I've read is that Tatar is being fast-tracked like Smith.

As excited as I am to see that, their impact will take seasons to really be felt. I'm more interested in FA signings in 2012.


I'm counting on Tatar be a full-timer in 12-13. Holland has been talking about a youth movement lately and even mentioned that Tatar could possibly make the team this year.

As for free agency, I don't think we'll be too active. Re-sign Helm and Abdelkader, get a Bertuzzi/Homer replacement, and use our young guys to fill out the roster. I see something like this...

Filppula-Datsyuk-FA
Franzen-Z-Cleary
Bertuzzi/FA-Helm-Mursak
Tatar-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller

#9 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 03:30 AM

Helm and Abdelkader will be RFAs according to Capgeek so maintaining them shouldn't be too difficult.

#10 mmamolo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:39 AM

His first post and he's already bagging on Eva! Hilarious!

Ha that is exactly what I thought.

I definitely agree that it seems more and more likely that we'll see more youth in the Wings' line up. That being said, I can't see any prospect being rushed or entering the line up before they're 'ready'. In some ways I really think we're going to see a little more of the prospects throughout the season. Smith will get his time (as it's not likely he makes the roster out of camp based on who is already signed) and Tatar should get a bundle of games when the forwards get hurt (which always happens at some point). But I don't think we're going to see a massive influx of young, inexperienced players on the 2012-13 roster. There will be some(similar to what is planned to be here this upcoming season) but I can't imagine there being such a massive alteration. I see a forward being signed or traded for
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#11 stevkrause

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:17 AM

Abby didn't do s*** last year in the regular season, and especially in the playoffs.

I don't see much improvement in his game and he hardly seems indispensable. The stupid penalties and lack of fighting doesn't help either.

We can find better 4th liners all around the league.

Yea, Abs is replaceable! Everyone knows that 24 year olds with size and speed grow on trees and since all players tap out on their potential and we know what they'll be by 23, there's no chance of him getting better either, he's got to go!
/sarcasm

<_<

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#12 mmamolo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:25 AM

Yea, Abs is replaceable! Everyone knows that 24 year olds with size and speed grow on trees and since all players tap out on their potential and we know what they'll be by 23, there's no chance of him getting better either, he's got to go!
/sarcasm

<_<

You're right, there is zero chance Abdelkader is moved any time soon. That being said I do think next season is an important one for him. When you look at the progression between Helm and Abdelkader (not just points-wise but overall impact and career progression) I think some would be disappointed. There's no doubt that Abdelkader has a higher ceiling but some are probably frustrated that (last year) ABdelkader was provided with more responisbility and opportunity at times. I think Abdelkader is putting it together. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and hopefully he starts netting some more points and growing into that 3rd line centre spot.
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#13 stevkrause

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:13 AM

You're right, there is zero chance Abdelkader is moved any time soon. That being said I do think next season is an important one for him. When you look at the progression between Helm and Abdelkader (not just points-wise but overall impact and career progression) I think some would be disappointed. There's no doubt that Abdelkader has a higher ceiling but some are probably frustrated that (last year) Abdelkader was provided with more responsibility and opportunity at times. I think Abdelkader is putting it together. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and hopefully he starts netting some more points and growing into that 3rd line centre spot.

Agreed, he made some mental mistakes last year and the most noticeable ones, were unfortunately at the worst time - the playoffs.

You are dead on though, he needs to make some big strides next year to show me that he has potential top 6 ability, but even if he doesn't, he's still a good bottom 6 guy and his next contract will pay as such... it's really all on him at this point... he still has a ways to go and he's not there yet, but people who already write him off, or think he won't be brought back (or shouldn't), need to get their heads checked... he'll probably never be a point per game player, but he has the potential to be a Danny Cleary type, with more snarl, which you can never have enough of on a team...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#14 mmamolo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:36 AM

Agreed, he made some mental mistakes last year and the most noticeable ones, were unfortunately at the worst time - the playoffs.

You are dead on though, he needs to make some big strides next year to show me that he has potential top 6 ability, but even if he doesn't, he's still a good bottom 6 guy and his next contract will pay as such... it's really all on him at this point... he still has a ways to go and he's not there yet, but people who already write him off, or think he won't be brought back (or shouldn't), need to get their heads checked... he'll probably never be a point per game player, but he has the potential to be a Danny Cleary type, with more snarl, which you can never have enough of on a team...

Yeah, I don't think he'll ever be a ppg guy but there aren't many in the league that are. I don't even necessarily thin khe'll be a top 6. But this guy has the potential to be a great 3rd line centre and a chance to play in the top 6 at times. I think your comparison to Cleary is righ ton.

People around here cry for more youth in the line up but don't want to be subjected the bumps in the road that young players bring to the table. It's a give and take but most sports fans aren't willing to accept that.
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#15 stevkrause

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:53 AM

Yeah, I don't think he'll ever be a ppg guy but there aren't many in the league that are. I don't even necessarily thin khe'll be a top 6. But this guy has the potential to be a great 3rd line centre and a chance to play in the top 6 at times. I think your comparison to Cleary is righ ton.

People around here cry for more youth in the line up but don't want to be subjected the bumps in the road that young players bring to the table. It's a give and take but most sports fans aren't willing to accept that.

QFT!

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#16 Nightfall

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 11:05 AM

I think Helm and Abdelkader will be around next year. They will both be resigned. Abs has great potential, and Helm had a great season last year. People seem to forget that Helm had some bumps in the road like Abs did a couple years ago. He seems to be coming into his own though, and thats a good sign. I say give Abs a chance to do the same. He isn't going to be paid astronomical either.

I don't see Bert or Holmstrom coming back next season. If Hudler has a monster season, I think the Wings may go for him though. Especially at a lower price point.
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#17 robb himself

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:13 PM

I actually have a weird feeling that Hudler is going to have a good year this year with 25 goals and 50+ points...but thats just me.

Helm is a no brainer to bring back.

Hopefully Abdelkader can get his game going this year.

Wouldnt mind having Bertuzzi back on a year to year basis.

Not sure about Holmstrom yet.

Kronwall is a must.

Hopefully Stuart will be back as well.

I have a feeling that Lidstrom and Holmstrom may retire together. (definately if they win the Cup)
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#18 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:23 PM

I think Helm and Abdelkader will be around next year. They will both be resigned. Abs has great potential, and Helm had a great season last year. People seem to forget that Helm had some bumps in the road like Abs did a couple years ago. He seems to be coming into his own though, and thats a good sign. I say give Abs a chance to do the same. He isn't going to be paid astronomical either.

I don't see Bert or Holmstrom coming back next season. If Hudler has a monster season, I think the Wings may go for him though. Especially at a lower price point.


If he has a monster season, he's gonna cost a hell of a lot more. And for a player like Hudler who is only "effective" in the offensive zone, he isn't worth the money he's likely to get if he has a good season.

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#19 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:54 PM

Yea, Abs is replaceable! Everyone knows that 24 year olds with size and speed grow on trees and since all players tap out on their potential and we know what they'll be by 23, there's no chance of him getting better either, he's got to go!
/sarcasm

<_<


You really think he'll be a top 6 forward at any point in his career, or will become a physical force and really good fighter?

I say no to any of those things and it seems like you somewhat agree in the above posts. Just because a player is in his mid 20's doesn't mean he has tremendous upside. It's more than just an age thing.

Based on the post I responded to, I still think Abby is easier to replace than Helm. Helm can do some things not many guys around the league can with his speed and tenaciousness. Abby doesn't do anything other players (young or old) can't do better around the NHL.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 25 July 2011 - 06:57 PM.

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#20 Buppy

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:52 PM

Hey all,
Been reading this forum for going on 5 years now, but this is my first post... I think it must have been this boring-ass offseason that drove me to do it.
Anyways, this year in free agency has started a bit of a transition for the team. We've lost some of the older guys in Rafalski, Osgood (and presumably Draper). It also looks like we'll have a couple young guys move up from the minors to take some forward positions (Mursak and Emmerton to be our 13th and 14th forwards). Is this the start of a trend to move to become younger?
Next year, there are 5 forwards who become FAs.

Helm 
Abdelkader
Bertuzzi
Holmstrom
Hudler

And there looks to be two prospects that could make a good push to move up.

Tatar (will only be 21, but if he can build on last year, he might be ready)
Andersson (will be 23)
My question for you guys is, which of our current forwards will be brought back? For me Helm and Abby are no-brainers. They wouldn't even cost Holland much more than a million to give them both raises. The other three however... my guess is that some of you would like to see all of them go (the exception being eva of course... we all know who would stay if it were up to him ;P ). Out of the three, I'd want to drop 2 of those guys at least. Probably Homer and Hudler, arguably the two worst skaters on the team. Hopefully by that point Mursak will be able to move into a third line role to cover for Hudler, and Tatar can take a top 6 role to move in for Homer. Then you have Emmerton and Andersson rounding out the 13th and 14th spots. I think we could have a much improved forward unit, without making any drastic changes or ridiculous free agent signings.

Sorry, I know its silly putting together a lineup like a season in advance, but this is what it could look like.

Franzen Datsyuk Tatar
Filppula Zetterberg Cleary 
Bertuzzi Abdelkader Mursak
Eaves Helm Miller
Emmerton Andersson

And just think, we could have Nyquist and Pulkkinen coming in the year after that :D. And then Jarnkrok, Sheahan, and Jurco coming in the years after that! The future is bright, my friends... At least at the forward position. Defense, not so much. Even after we bring up Smith next year, there will be a massive hole whenever Lidstrom goes. There will be no choice but to try and sign a big name through free agency I'd say.
(Apologies for using the code style... for some reason I format lines probably when using my phone).

Using this year's cap number, we have just under $29M in free space next year. After Smith, a backup goalie, and the rest of the defense, we'd likely have around $10-12M left for the forwards.

Helm could easily get $3M+ if he continues to improve, and we should probably expect $2.5 at least. Abby, depending on this season could be anywhere from $1-3M himself. I don't really see Emmerton and Andersson both on the roster (maybe not even either). Tatar I think will be up. So that would leave us around $5-7M for two spots. Probably looking for a top-6 winger, and a bottom 6 forward.

Flip - Pav - ?/Cleary
Mule - Hank - ?/Cleary
Tatar - Helm/Abby - Eaves/Mursak
Miller/? - Abby/Helm - Mursak/Eaves
Emmerton or Anderson - Miller/?

There'll potentially be some big names next summer: Semin, Doan, Sharp, Boyes, Grabovski, possibly Parise... I think we'll target one of them, then a cheap grinder for the last spot.

If the cap goes up and/or we fill all the other spots cheaper, I could see us targeting a 2nd tier FA as well: Ruutu, Kunitz, Stoll, Stempniak...

This isn't considering any potential trades this year though, which I think is fairly likely.
If Bettman and the owners try to force the cap down, we'll probably have another lockout and I'll stop caring.





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