50 replies to this topic

[hooon]

So you want to see how he would do playing in a third or fourth line role with no special teams?

Why don't we try that with Johan Franzen. See what he does. He has spent most of the past few years on a line with either Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and has only beaten Kopecky's numbers from last year twice.

If Franzen is an elite scorer, that makes Kopecky a solid second-liner, right? He's not too different from Franzen physically or defensively. Franzen is a much better goal scorer, but Kopy is a better playmaker. If Kopy had Patrick Eaves' shot, he might be the better player.

Wait, what? When did Franzen enter this convo?

Its kind of telling that you have to resort to bashing a completely unrelated player in order to try to make a point about a guy like Tomas friggin Kopecky or Jason friggin Williams.

Btw, Franzen DID begin his career on the 4th line. And within several seasons he advanced his game significantly from a 4th line shutdown guy to a legit power foward. Surely you remember that magical February-March stretch in 08. Using your patented Hudler formula, what do his numbers project to if you only count the scoring of those two months? Like 90 goals a season?

[haroldsnepsts]

If I recall correctly, I was calling for Lebda to be removed from the roster in favor of Meech, and then waived in favor of Quincey. Others here were fine with him, and then wanted to send Chelios packing despite the fact that he was actually effective, unlike Lebda.

I don't always simply support the hated players. I simply look at the player's performance and figure "This guy performs well/ok/excellent" or "He's got solid potential that he's not given credit for." or things like that.

And for the record, more than 90% of LGWers said Kopecky would never be more than a fourth-liner in the NHL. I said that he would be a second-liner, ideally a power forward, probably playing on the wing. He played that EXACT role on the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks. Now he's in Florida and expected to perform in a top-six role there, perhaps even as a leader, bringing Cup experience and all-around play to a roster which is short on both.

But yes, I just pick guys who are disliked and defend them.

I agree with your views on Lebda, Quincey and Meech, but Kopecky was NOT a power forward.

And he played 9 and a half minutes a game in the regular season, which puts him behind 11 other guys, not top six minutes. In the postseason that went up to 13 and a half but he was still mostly not a second line forward. And he sure as hell wasn't a power forward.

My memory of him is basically as a garbage man cleaning up some pucks lying around the crease after guys like Hossa or Kane did most of the work. I think you should wait and see how he performs in Florida with that ridiculous contract of his before you can go gloating about how right you were.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 10 August 2011 - 08:23 PM.

[eva unit zero]

Wait, what? When did Franzen enter this convo?

Its kind of telling that you have to resort to bashing a completely unrelated player in order to try to make a point about a guy like Tomas friggin Kopecky or Jason friggin Williams.

Btw, Franzen DID begin his career on the 4th line. And within several seasons he advanced his game significantly from a 4th line shutdown guy to a legit power foward. Surely you remember that magical February-March stretch in 08. Using your patented Hudler formula, what do his numbers project to if you only count the scoring of those two months? Like 90 goals a season?

Not as good as the one great game he had this season before he decided to go home for the summer.

I agree with your views on Lebda, Quincey and Meech, but Kopecky was NOT a power forward.

And he played 9 and a half minutes a game in the regular season, which puts him behind 11 other guys, not top six minutes. In the postseason that went up to 13 and a half but he was still mostly not a second line forward. And he sure as hell wasn't a power forward.

My memory of him is basically as a garbage man cleaning up some pucks lying around the crease after guys like Hossa or Kane did most of the work. I think you should wait and see how he performs in Florida with that ridiculous contract of his before you can go gloating about how right you were.

No, Kopecky was not a power forward. Neither is Franzen. You missed the "ideally" part. Kopecky was a guy who was learning to use his body, and was developing his skills. Had he played those years on a Philly or Anaheim, he might have formed into an intimidating physical player. Instead, he played with guys who play a highly effective skill-based game, and he followed that track more than he should have. The same is true of Franzen.

As for his role; he was mostly a third liner in the regular season, but he played mostly on a line with Sharp and Hossa in the postseason. He was acquired as a depth player and played himself up into the role; Kopecky was a major reason the Hawks felt comfortable trading Ladd and Versteeg. If they hadn't been able to get Brunette to fill his shoes, they'd have had a major hole in their secondary.

And I think you'll be very surprised about his Florida performance.

[haroldsnepsts]

No, Kopecky was not a power forward. Neither is Franzen. You missed the "ideally" part. Kopecky was a guy who was learning to use his body, and was developing his skills. Had he played those years on a Philly or Anaheim, he might have formed into an intimidating physical player. Instead, he played with guys who play a highly effective skill-based game, and he followed that track more than he should have. The same is true of Franzen.

As for his role; he was mostly a third liner in the regular season, but he played mostly on a line with Sharp and Hossa in the postseason. He was acquired as a depth player and played himself up into the role; Kopecky was a major reason the Hawks felt comfortable trading Ladd and Versteeg. If they hadn't been able to get Brunette to fill his shoes, they'd have had a major hole in their secondary.

And I think you'll be very surprised about his Florida performance.

I don't think and never said Franzen is a power forward. I'm not sure how that's relevant. But you said:

I said that he would be a second-liner, ideally a power forward, probably playing on the wing. He played that EXACT role on the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks.

I don't think it was a leap on my part to infer you were saying Kopecky was a power forward.

[eva unit zero]

I don't think and never said Franzen is a power forward. I'm not sure how that's relevant. But you said:



I don't think it was a leap on my part to infer you were saying Kopecky was a power forward.

I said "a second liner, ideally a power forward". If I were saying he was a power forward, I'd have simply said "A second line power forward".

Think. You're smart. Use your brain.

[haroldsnepsts]

I said "a second liner, ideally a power forward". If I were saying he was a power forward, I'd have simply said "A second line power forward".

Think. You're smart. Use your brain.

Wow. Really? That's you're response to this simple misunderstanding?

Forget it Eva. All the s*** you get from people here you bring on yourself with dickish responses like this one.

[Uncle Danny]

I get why Williams is laughed at here. Really, I do. But $600k and two way for a veteran who has proven he can provide secondary/tertiary scoring? Even if he's below average in that role, they hardly broke the bank for him and have no contractual reason to keep him in the bigs if he doesn't put up numbers. He'll never make a huge impact on the ice, but he's also not in a position here to make a huge impact on their cap or roster size. I say good signing. Not great, simply good.

[stevie for president]

I said "a second liner, ideally a power forward". If I were saying he was a power forward, I'd have simply said "A second line power forward".

Think. You're smart. Use your brain.

Yeah but then you said "He played that EXACT role", in reference to the second line power forward...

[VM1138]

I get why Williams is laughed at here. Really, I do. But $600k and two way for a veteran who has proven he can provide secondary/tertiary scoring? Even if he's below average in that role, they hardly broke the bank for him and have no contractual reason to keep him in the bigs if he doesn't put up numbers. He'll never make a huge impact on the ice, but he's also not in a position here to make a huge impact on their cap or roster size. I say good signing. Not great, simply good.

He hasn't played that role for a few years now. Now he's just an invisible roster spot filler.

[ben_usmc]

I get why Williams is laughed at here. Really, I do. But $600k and two way for a veteran who has proven he can provide secondary/tertiary scoring? Even if he's below average in that role, they hardly broke the bank for him and have no contractual reason to keep him in the bigs if he doesn't put up numbers. He'll never make a huge impact on the ice, but he's also not in a position here to make a huge impact on their cap or roster size. I say good signing. Not great, simply good.

I disagree, I think they'd be better off just bringing one of their prospects as opposed to Williams. I just feel like he brings nothing positive so I would pay him for what he provides.... That's right charge him to play!

[eva unit zero]

He hasn't played that role for a few years now. Now he's just an invisible roster spot filler.

If healthy, he can be a top-six forward. The problem is, of course, the healthy thing.