San Jose Sharks

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

i agree with u but u have to admit that those first 2 games were very close and sj seemed to get alot of luck while the wings got none. those first 2 games anyway.

I thought they outplayed us in the first two games. When you outwork someone, you usually get most of the bounces.

Sometimes, there's a thin line between winning and losing. In our Cup years, we could overcome bad bounces and wind up on the right side of that line. The last two seasons we couldn't.

We can't just pin consecutive playoff disappointments on bad officiating and unlucky bounces. Crymson's post suggested as much. I hope the management doesn't feel that way, or else they'll be content with not making changes.

[chrisdetroit 189]

did u watch the 08 or 09 season? i kno the '08 team had chelios, drake, maltby, mccarty, and sammy. sammys not too tough, but plays more physical than a lot of the wings. the '09 team had all those players except for drake i believe. also wasnt downey on both those teams? so yeah the '08 and '09 teams had more grit and those teams were not plagued by injury.

p.s. theres a lot more to the game then hitting buddy, even in the physical department.

Sammy? You lost me on that one. Also the '08 and '09 players did not have Abby or Bert - both gritty players. Chelios was a shell of his former self by then. Mac wasn't on the team in '09 or at least not in the playoffs. And Downey never saw the ice in the playoffs in either year.

If the '08 and '09 team had more "grit" it wasn't by a lot.

Equating a supposed lack of grit with injuries is a stretch. If there was a correlation, that would imply that "soft" teams have more injuries not only on the Wings but league wide. Maybe that was true in the 1970's but the game has changed...

[mjlegend 155]

I thought they outplayed us in the first two games. When you outwork someone, you usually get most of the bounces.

Sometimes, there's a thin line between winning and losing. In our Cup years, we could overcome bad bounces and wind up on the right side of that line. The last two seasons we couldn't.

We can't just pin consecutive playoff disappointments on bad officiating and unlucky bounces. Crymson's post suggested as much. I hope the management doesn't feel that way, or else they'll be content with not making changes.

There might be something to that. I think this off-season has been the Webster's definition of not making any changes. Ken Holland sounds pretty content.

“I think, if we had to go to training camp next week, we’re ready to go,” Holland said.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/tmr/comments/ken_holland_believes_red_wings_roster_is_ready_to_go/

If Rafalski doesn't retire, the only NHL player they signed would have been Commodore.

The other reason that the Wings won four Cups was incredible depth in the organization. If someone did go down to injury, another player was able to take his spot without the Wings missing a beat. Kopecky's hurt, Helm comes in. Hasek sucks, Osgood replaces him. There were always three lines worth of guys who could play Red Wings possession-game-type hockey. Now, we don't see anywhere near that, and the inconsistency has been showing up in a disturbing amount of regular season and playoff games for the last couple of years.

[RusDRW 155]

The other reason that the Wings won four Cups was incredible depth in the organization. If someone did go down to injury, another player was able to take his spot without the Wings missing a beat. Kopecky's hurt, Helm comes in. Hasek sucks, Osgood replaces him. There were always three lines worth of guys who could play Red Wings possession-game-type hockey. Now, we don't see anywhere near that, and the inconsistency has been showing up in a disturbing amount of regular season and playoff games for the last couple of years.

it seems that injection of the young homegrown (more or less) talented players to our line-up was one of the reasons we were deep in those seasons. See Kopecky, Helm, Abdelkader, Filppula getting third line center duties. Hopefully, this season they play Mursak, Tatar, Smith (Lashoff?) and this could be a kind of solution.

[number9 3,297]

Sammy? You lost me on that one. Also the '08 and '09 players did not have Abby or Bert - both gritty players. Chelios was a shell of his former self by then. Mac wasn't on the team in '09 or at least not in the playoffs. And Downey never saw the ice in the playoffs in either year.

If the '08 and '09 team had more "grit" it wasn't by a lot.

Equating a supposed lack of grit with injuries is a stretch. If there was a correlation, that would imply that "soft" teams have more injuries not only on the Wings but league wide. Maybe that was true in the 1970's but the game has changed...

i knew this was gonna go in this direction. our stars dont get a lot of protection physically and that matters. abbys gritty but he doesnt step up when we need him too. tuzzi does but hes also not the bulldozer he once was. i mean dats had his first fight ever this year...that shouldnt happen. babcock sat dats for 10 min after that fight because he knos dats should never be fighting. thats why i actually liked the commodore signing. i like the idea of 6'5" 230lb presence looming over the rest of the team. hopefully it will make others think twice before going balls to the wall on us. im not sayiing we absolutely need enforcers on this team, but stars need some protection, thats why enforcers exist in the first place.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

i knew this was gonna go in this direction. our stars dont get a lot of protection physically and that matters. abbys gritty but he doesnt step up when we need him too. tuzzi does but hes also not the bulldozer he once was. i mean dats had his first fight ever this year...that shouldnt happen. babcock sat dats for 10 min after that fight because he knos dats should never be fighting. thats why i actually liked the commodore signing. i like the idea of 6'5" 230lb presence looming over the rest of the team. hopefully it will make others think twice before going balls to the wall on us. im not sayiing we absolutely need enforcers on this team, but stars need some protection, thats why enforcers exist in the first place.

The game was over at that point. No need to work Datsyuk harder than he needs to. Also there is nothing wrong with having your star player drop the gloves every so often. Especially when Perry isn't a heavyweight and seems to have a pretty good respect for who he is fighting against (see Ericsson helmet fiasco).

[Guest stinky fish taco]

They're built to get lucky bounces and help from the refs against the Wings? Cool story, bud.

LOL. talk about being in denial.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

They're built to get lucky bounces and help from the refs against the Wings? Cool story, bud.

C'mon Crymson, you're making me agree with a guy named stinky fish taco for chrissakes. Sometimes the Wings actually lose playoff games because they got outplayed.

Stop making excuses. It makes us Wings fans sound like some pathetic losers.

Sharks beat us both times. Plain and simple. They won 4 games in both series and we didn't. We had our chances to win and didn't get it done.

This whining about bounces and refs is getting old.

this. Over a 7 game series the bounces and questionable calls generally work themselves out.

i agree with u but u have to admit that those first 2 games were very close and sj seemed to get alot of luck while the wings got none. those first 2 games anyway.

The team working the hardest tends to have the most luck. In 2008 that was the Wings.

[number9 3,297]

The game was over at that point. No need to work Datsyuk harder than he needs to. Also there is nothing wrong with having your star player drop the gloves every so often. Especially when Perry isn't a heavyweight and seems to have a pretty good respect for who he is fighting against (see Ericsson helmet fiasco).

datsyuk said in an interview that babs was not happy about it

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

this. Over a 7 game series the bounces and questionable calls generally work themselves out.

I disagree with this, in fact there are cases where it appears to be extremely unequal, but I also think that it doesn't really matter. If you get all the lucky breaks and win, you still win; if all the bounces go against you and you lose, you still haven't accomplished what you wanted. But it also doesn't mean you can't be successful with that lineup. If two teams are evenly matched one will still lose.

Although I also agree that the Wings were outplayed and got what they deserved especially in Games 1 and 2 last season. And in general didn't get enough scoring from their secondary guys while the Sharks did.

[Guest mjtm77]

really good call.

it's simple - sharks got better, wings got worse.

Wings did get worse but keep in mind we have money to spend and could upgrade later in the season but who knows what kenny will do. keep in mind we played the series last year without the mule who is a playoff beast although he verry well could be injured agian in the playoffs as it seems verry likely. as of now you cant say the sharks got better they just shook things up it could go either way. but as of right now ill take the sharks over the wings but something tells me dats will have someting to say after loosing two years in a row.

[Guest mjtm77]

There are MANY factors that determine who wins the Cup each year. Only one of those factors is who looks best on paper. How many people predicted Boston would win this year? It's really more about who has a chance to win the Cup. In order to actually win, they have to have luck, intangibles, etc. So really, it comes down to who has a chance. IMO it's:

Detroit

Vancouver

San Jose

Los Angeles

Philly

Boston

Tampa

Washington

Years ago, you could predict who would win but now not so much. Just last year, we saw 2 different teams come from a 0-3 hole to force a game 7. This is almost unheard of. The year before, we saw a team come from an 0-3 hole and win in game seven for the first time in 35 years.

Last year Boston came back in the finals from being down 0-2 and then 2-3 to win the Cup as the visiting team. Pittsburgh did the same thing in 2009.

AND Boston won the Cup by winning 3 series in game 7. This never happened before.

L

Forget about predicting who will win the Cup. You will be wrong.

Acually I predicted boston. Of course I took wings but I do every year so I also pick another team. Last year I took the Hawks so I think im going to keep predicting. My early pick for the upcomming is Montreal but there is no way will stick with it

Edited August 8, 2011 by mjtm77

[Guest mjtm77]

i like what kenny holland did this summer. he picked up a solid puck moving dman in white and a big body dman in commodore who won a cup with the canes and the wings still have cap space for the deadline. he didn't blow the wad on trying to get a concussion prone burns. the sharks are in desperation mode cause they choke every year and are without a cup so they have to take wild stabs to try and be the team to "get the big player" while the wings make a couple good acquisitions and still have great team chemistry and people are choked about every free agent we didn't acquire...

what happens if kenny signs burns who may get injured anyways, and he's right up against the cap and lets say zach parise becomes available at the deadline...getting him would catapult the wings over the sharks right to the cup. kenny's patience gets new wings signed at respectable cap hits. and conklin is back for cheap too.

as well, rafalski has been injured for the past 3 seasons. everytime someone comes in on him with a forcheck and a hard hit is laid on him, he gets more hurt. rafs was a limping old dog and he made the right decision by retiring and spending time with his family before his health is gone and he can't run and play with his kids and s***. ozzy and drapes had great careers, but it was their time. they're all replacable and smith and tatar need to make the wings this year.

the sharks won't be that hard to beat. havlat and burns will get injured and they'll have to rely on marleau and thornton who will be outshined by couture when they slump from pressure.

Im almost certain if they were to move parise he would not come to the wings. Why do people think we can get him we could not match other teams offers but good god if we got parise I would thank kenny

[Guest mjtm77]

I dont get it. How exactly are they so much better? They lost 2 of their top scorers in Heatley and Setoguchi, and added an above-average Dman in Burns. If anything, they're only as good as they were last year, not any better.

the skarks might have a worse regular season and may even loose a top 3 spot to LA but looking at everything that happened they probaly will be better then last year.

Heatly was nearly invisible in the playoffs last year Havlat should be a huge upgrade during the post season. As for the burns and Setoguchi deal it could be a washup nobody knows how it will turn out. This could have been a 30 to 35 goal season for Setoguchi and burns could be injured the whole year. the sharks have lots of offense and are in need of defense so in my mind they got better in this deal. They got rid of somer offense which they have alot of and got defense which they were lacking. and not to mention the addition of handzus. athough all of these deals could have put them back a step. We will just have to see how they play as a team

Stop making excuses. It makes us Wings fans sound like some pathetic losers.

Sharks beat us both times. Plain and simple. They won 4 games in both series and we didn't. We had our chances to win and didn't get it done.

This whining about bounces and refs is getting old.

Now I know why everyone says wings fans are among the worst and complain alot.

Although the sharks and the nucks are divers, there is no denying that.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I disagree with this, in fact there are cases where it appears to be extremely unequal, but I also think that it doesn't really matter. If you get all the lucky breaks and win, you still win; if all the bounces go against you and you lose, you still haven't accomplished what you wanted. But it also doesn't mean you can't be successful with that lineup. If two teams are evenly matched one will still lose.

Although I also agree that the Wings were outplayed and got what they deserved especially in Games 1 and 2 last season. And in general didn't get enough scoring from their secondary guys while the Sharks did.

I know what you're saying, but I would also argue that the better team is usually the one getting these "lucky breaks" or at the very least they're less affected by bad bounces. Also, a lot of times a team can look like they're not getting a break because they're getting soundly outplayed.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

I know what you're saying, but I would also argue that the better team is usually the one getting these "lucky breaks" or at the very least they're less affected by bad bounces. Also, a lot of times a team can look like they're not getting a break because they're getting soundly outplayed.

So luck favors the prepared, eh?

I got that line from The Incredibles.

[number9 3,297]

Acually I predicted boston. Of course I took wings but I do every year so I also pick another team. Last year I took the Hawks so I think im going to keep predicting. My early pick for the upcomming is Montreal but there is no way will stick with it

yeah i picked boston to win it all last year as well. i picked them b4 the trade deadline even! since when were they not considered a cup contender lol? everyone always picks the phillys and vancouvers

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The playoff series 2 years ago, you could make a claim where the officials played a bigger part than necessary in helping the Sharks win (specifically, game 2 I believe). Sharks dove nearly every single play it seems. Bush league, but if the refs weren't going to penalize them, I don't blame them for keeping on doing it.

This year, not so much. Sharks got a few bounces here/there to start the series, but that's how they often go and they rarely needed the benefit of refs this time around. The Wings made an absurdly valiant effort to pull off the stunner but just came up short. While officiating in general in the NHL stinks, I'm having a hard time pinning losses on them or thinking they played a bigger part than necessary.

While I am one of the first that goes absolutely bonkers over phantom interference calls for example, I'm getting tired of the officiating excuse as well.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

The playoff series 2 years ago, you could make a claim where the officials played a bigger part than necessary in helping the Sharks win (specifically, game 2 I believe). Sharks dove nearly every single play it seems. Bush league, but if the refs weren't going to penalize them, I don't blame them for keeping on doing it.

This year, not so much. Sharks got a few bounces here/there to start the series, but that's how they often go and they rarely needed the benefit of refs this time around. The Wings made an absurdly valiant effort to pull off the stunner but just came up short. While officiating in general in the NHL stinks, I'm having a hard time pinning losses on them or thinking they played a bigger part than necessary.

While I am one of the first that goes absolutely bonkers over phantom interference calls for example, I'm getting tired of the officiating excuse as well.

They got the bounces this year around in the first three games, most notably in Game 1 when Ferrio's overtime GWG deflected off of Stuart's stick. The officiating wasn't as horrid as 2010, but the sight of seeing so many Sharks players do their best Olympic diving impressions were shameful. I still laugh thinking about Joe Thornton's classic flop and trying to find the sniper in the stands.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Im almost certain if they were to move parise he would not come to the wings. Why do people think we can get him we could not match other teams offers but good god if we got parise I would thank kenny

Parise was used as nothing more than an example. The main point is that San Jose lost players to get players, and that the players they got are not of the best of health...Burns and Havlat. I'd rather have Kenny make smart low budget moves that improve the team and give solidarity than have him blow the wad and overpay for guys who may not be around when you need them most. smart GM's build winners and dynasties. trigger happy crap shooters for GM's have a few stars with less supporting cast and can't roll 4 lines to make it to the SCF for a real shot. remember the last team a 45 year old Claude the turtle Lemieux played for?? Crap shoot signing... Burns and Havlat won't take the Sharks to the next level when they lose Heatley and as much as I hate him, Setoguchi, as well as the Wings signing White.

Personally, I think the Wings are currently a better team and will meet the Sharks in the playoffs again and the Wings will win. White and Commodore aren't injury prone like the Sharts signings. The Wings will stay healthier this year and will outlast their opponents.

[kylee 727]

Its okay anyway guys this is the year the Red Wings fall off due to old age. Sincerely, every hater since 2000

[Guest Crymson]

I'm bumping this thread for the lulz. First-round exit!

[LidstromIsASuperhero 29]

I feel like this is a year where goaltending has really stolen the show, which honestly irritates me. None of the traditionally good teams did anything this year.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

I think they should have kept Heatley and finally got rid of Marleu. Its not like Marleu "however you spell it dont feel like looking it up or talking the time to sepll it correctly" isent good it just seems like they have been looking for an excuse to trade him for years now. Taking his C because they blame him for playoff struggles and stuff.

[Guest Crymson]

The Sharks were the most trade-active team in the league, and they barely made the playoffs and then got bounced in the first round.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Crymson