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Third line players who suck


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#21 ElCapitan

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 01:18 PM


From Dec 2nd through Jan 22nd, Savard played 25 games and scored 2 goals and 8 assists. In that same time span, Hudler scored 3 goals and 8 assists in 24 games. Remarkably similar stats. You can go on about a non-concussed Savard, but what about a Hudler that hadn't gone to the KHL? Maybe he's an All-Star scorer and Selke contender. We don't have the "maybe what if" numbers. If you want those, we can get Jason Williams' injury history involved.


Straw grasping. I'm looking at entire careers here. There is no one with any modicum of common sense that would choose a healthy Savard over Huds, even at Savard's age. Let's not even mention that he was producing over a point-per-game when he was 27 years old. I'll give you credit when Hudler has similar stats when he's 34 but right now you're trying to tell us all that a Ford Mustang GT performs the same as a Ferrari 599 GTB.

I'm not a Hudler hater like many here, but I'm not on his payroll either. Hopefully he proves us wrong. My opinion is that his salary could be better spent elsewhere. I'm sure if it were possible for Holland, Hudler would be be wearing a different uniform at training camp. Unfortunately for the Wings, the rest of the NHL sees what most of this board has been pointing out to you all summer long. He must pay well.

#22 wings1110

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 01:38 PM

dont base it on what line they play on, base it on their salary thats what really count in the cap world. if hudler was making 1 mil then i would be extremely happy with his performance. But hes not.

#23 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 01:40 PM

Third line players (generally) need to be well rounded. If I third-line player is one dimensional, than he (generally) sucks at being a third liner. If he is great at defense, but has no offensive talent, he should likely be on the fourth line. If he has offensive talent, but not enough to break in to the top-six, and no defensive talent, he might not have a spot on the team (see Jason Williams).

Obviously this thread is about Hudler. He gets a bad reputation on this board because he is a one dimensional player who isn't skilled enough to crack the Wings' top six and doesn't have chemistry with many players (on the ice). If he produced ~.7ppg again, I don't think you'd see much hate here. However, last year he didn't produce. No amount of what ifs, predictions, averages, etc can forgive his lackluster season. I'd love for the line of Cleary- Abby- Huds to work, but who knows.

There are few players who can be a good third liner while being one-dimensional. The Wings are one of the few teams where it might work (due to scoring depth), but last season it did not.

#24 eva unit zero

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 02:19 PM

His infamous "100 point pace" happened when he was playing with Datsyuk and Cleary on the top line.

I wouldn't call him a true 3rd liner last season, with that fact and the powerplay time he got.

Except he wasn't always a third liner. See my post above. Hudler got time on the powerplay and played a while with Datsyuk.


While Hudler and Datsyuk were together, Hudler outscored Datsyuk. That's an awfully interesting thing to happen during the same span you seem to be giving credit for his entire season's worth of production.

Maybe you then agree that Hudler should be on the top line with Datsyuk, scoring crazy amounts of points instead of playing on a line with Abdelkader and Miller or whatever assembly you have planned.

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#25 cjm502

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 04:08 PM


While Hudler and Datsyuk were together, Hudler outscored Datsyuk. That's an awfully interesting thing to happen during the same span you seem to be giving credit for his entire season's worth of production.

Maybe you then agree that Hudler should be on the top line with Datsyuk, scoring crazy amounts of points instead of playing on a line with Abdelkader and Miller or whatever assembly you have planned.

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#26 kylee

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 04:50 PM

As much as I dislike hudler as a player, I can agree with everything you said! I hope he becomes a 70+ point scorer, I really do, but next year so if he re-signs here it will be cheap. If he gets 70 pts this year, he get $5M.

Fine incentive to me

#27 eva unit zero

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:59 PM

Straw grasping. I'm looking at entire careers here. There is no one with any modicum of common sense that would choose a healthy Savard over Huds, even at Savard's age. Let's not even mention that he was producing over a point-per-game when he was 27 years old. I'll give you credit when Hudler has similar stats when he's 34 but right now you're trying to tell us all that a Ford Mustang GT performs the same as a Ferrari 599 GTB.

I'm not a Hudler hater like many here, but I'm not on his payroll either. Hopefully he proves us wrong. My opinion is that his salary could be better spent elsewhere. I'm sure if it were possible for Holland, Hudler would be be wearing a different uniform at training camp. Unfortunately for the Wings, the rest of the NHL sees what most of this board has been pointing out to you all summer long. He must pay well.


If we're comparing players' productions at certain ages, spanning many years, how about a 20 year-old Lindros vs. a 20 year-old Yzerman or Fedorov? Lindros was the best player in the world at age 20. Yzerman was just becoming a top player, and Fedorov was just entering the league and was a very good second-tier center.

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#28 GMRwings1983

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:33 PM


While Hudler and Datsyuk were together, Hudler outscored Datsyuk. That's an awfully interesting thing to happen during the same span you seem to be giving credit for his entire season's worth of production.

Maybe you then agree that Hudler should be on the top line with Datsyuk, scoring crazy amounts of points instead of playing on a line with Abdelkader and Miller or whatever assembly you have planned.


Point is that Hudler wasn't on the 3rd line all year. Those point totals you gave us are not from him being a 3rd liner the entire season.

You just twisted the stats in your favor, disregarding common sense in the process.
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#29 Off the Post

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:43 PM

You shouldn't judge players by how many stats they have...

#30 Uncle Danny

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:22 PM

You shouldn't judge players by how many stats they have...


Don't all players have the same number of stats, so long as they play the same position? :blink:
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#31 egroen

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:35 PM

It was mentioned earlier Hudler should just be allowed to play a Brett Hull game, and I completely agree. I don't really care to see him trying to play physical, grind in the corners and backcheck, because frankly, he isn't good at it. Hudler should be told to simply find open space.

I know Babcock is a stickler for 'everyone backchecks' but Bowman at least knew his players' strengths and weaknesses enough to say 'everyone but LaFleur/Lemieux/Jagr/Hull/Holmstrom backchecks'.
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#32 eva unit zero

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 12:42 AM

Point is that Hudler wasn't on the 3rd line all year. Those point totals you gave us are not from him being a 3rd liner the entire season.

You just twisted the stats in your favor, disregarding common sense in the process.


Hudler spent most of the year on the third line, played a little bit on the top two, and played just as much on the fourth.

It was mentioned earlier Hudler should just be allowed to play a Brett Hull game, and I completely agree. I don't really care to see him trying to play physical, grind in the corners and backcheck, because frankly, he isn't good at it. Hudler should be told to simply find open space.

I know Babcock is a stickler for 'everyone backchecks' but Bowman at least knew his players' strengths and weaknesses enough to say 'everyone but LaFleur/Lemieux/Jagr/Hull/Holmstrom backchecks'.


Funny thing is, Hudler backchecks harder than any of those guys did. And he always has.
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#33 Nev

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:37 AM

Because from day 1 in the NHL Babcock has been beasting him about his defensive play.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#34 egroen

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:00 AM

Funny thing is, Hudler backchecks harder than any of those guys did. And he always has.

I know, he's in the doghouse if he doesn't, I just think in the case of Hudler, Babcock mismanages him.
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