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Should Homer Still Be On the Top Line?


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#21 hooon

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:38 PM

Abby has a higher offensive ceiling than Helm IMO. Also, Helm will likely be better with Eaves and Mursak than Abby.


Helm's 32 points and 12 goals is far better than Abby's 7 goals and 19 points. Helm's production has increased steadily over the past seasons whereas Abby's has stalled.

Last year I would have agreed with you about the upside, but Abdelkader hasn't shown any of the offensive abilities he displayed in GR, where Helm is finally starting to bury his scoring chances (he also creates far more opportunities than Abby.)

I just think Helm has earned third line minutes far more than Abby has. (Im a homer for Helmer, though!)


I'll take a stab at some lines.

Flip-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Hudler
Mursak-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller, Emmerton

Maybe switch Hudler and Cleary if one or both need a jumpstart.
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#22 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 06:19 PM

Helm's 32 points and 12 goals is far better than Abby's 7 goals and 19 points. Helm's production has increased steadily over the past seasons whereas Abby's has stalled.

Last year I would have agreed with you about the upside, but Abdelkader hasn't shown any of the offensive abilities he displayed in GR, where Helm is finally starting to bury his scoring chances (he also creates far more opportunities than Abby.)

I just think Helm has earned third line minutes far more than Abby has. (Im a homer for Helmer, though!)


I'll take a stab at some lines.

Flip-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Hudler
Mursak-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller, Emmerton

Maybe switch Hudler and Cleary if one or both need a jumpstart.

It's not about the line number, as I expect the third and fourth line to play relatively equal amounts (especially if Homer is on the first line and a thrd liner takes his place a few shifts a game). Abby has scored more in the AHL (per game) and is a better playmaker and shooter. Helm creates chances with his work ethic and speed. Rarely will we see Helm's line control the puck in the zone (outside of the cycle) and set up a pretty goal. Garbage goals are just as valuable, but they aren't the best predictor of offensive talent.

IMO Eaves- Helm- Mursak makes the best fourth line, and Abby's game should mesh well with Cleary and Hudler (making the line defensively sound, and Abby and Cleary have some offensive chemistry). Likely, Cleary would play in Homer's spot frequently, giving the fourth line just as much TOI.

#23 GMRwings1983

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 06:55 PM

Maybe Hudler can carry Datsyuk on the top line like he did last season.

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#24 Hiei

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 07:33 PM

Lines I'd like to see:

Dats-Franz-Cleary
Z-Bert-Homer
Flip-helm-Eaves
Miller-Mursak-Hudler For Mayor

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#25 hooon

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 08:03 PM

It's not about the line number, as I expect the third and fourth line to play relatively equal amounts (especially if Homer is on the first line and a thrd liner takes his place a few shifts a game). Abby has scored more in the AHL (per game) and is a better playmaker and shooter. Helm creates chances with his work ethic and speed. Rarely will we see Helm's line control the puck in the zone (outside of the cycle) and set up a pretty goal. Garbage goals are just as valuable, but they aren't the best predictor of offensive talent.

IMO Eaves- Helm- Mursak makes the best fourth line, and Abby's game should mesh well with Cleary and Hudler (making the line defensively sound, and Abby and Cleary have some offensive chemistry). Likely, Cleary would play in Homer's spot frequently, giving the fourth line just as much TOI.


I have always liked the idea of the Eaves-Helm-Mursak line. Fast. :thumbup:
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#26 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 08:39 PM

I have always liked the idea of the Eaves-Helm-Mursak line. Fast. :thumbup:

I can't wait to see them together. I put Abby on the third mainly because that fourth line is amazing. I don't think Abby or Helm would make much of a difference for the third line, but I do think Helm makes that fourth line work.

#27 13dangledangle

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 11:16 PM

Line time!


Flippula- Datsyuk-Hudler
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Brunnstrom-Abdelkader-Cleary
Mursak-Helm-Eaves

Holmer-Miller


I know it's unlikely Fabian makes the team but from what I've read it's desire and defensive play that he lacks and coming from Dallas and Toronto I truly think he could be the perfect fit at the perfect time. I also know Holmer isnt even full time on my "dream Roster" for the year, but with the vets we have and young guns we have, I believe (at least for the moment lol) this would be the best dressed squad we could put on the ice.

I can't wait to see them together. I put Abby on the third mainly because that fourth line is amazing. I don't think Abby or Helm would make much of a difference for the third line, but I do think Helm makes that fourth line work.


I agree 100%. Helm completely energizes our fourth line, he's a guy that makes the guys around him play harder, hell they have to to keep up to the guy. Now that we have Mursak and Eaves too...Priceless!
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#28 eva unit zero

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 11:18 PM

Here's a couple lineups with Homer in the "specialist" role:

If Brunnstrom does NOT make the top 12:

Hudler/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi
Franzen/Zetterberg/Filppula
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Mursak/Abby/Homer

If Brunnstrom DOES make the top 12:

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary
Franzen/Zetterberg/Bert
Brunnstrom/Filppula/Homer
Abdelkader/Helm/Eaves

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#29 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:57 AM

LOL Hudler will not be on the top line minus several injuries. A big LOL.

#30 eva unit zero

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:14 AM

LOL Hudler will not be on the top line minus several injuries. A big LOL.


Ok genius. Make a lineup which keeps Homer out of the top six and has Brunnstrom off the roster. Who's in your top six? Dats, Z, Flip, Bert, Franzen, Cleary? But what then is your third line? Or your fourth line? If you dress that top six and the Mursak/Helm/Eaves line, you end up with Hudler/Abby/Homer. That line is frakkin' ridiculous. It doesn't make sense to not have Huds on the top two lines, especially in a situation where you are assuming the fact of Homer not being there. Dats and Z are the best players, Franzen is either scoring a bunch of goals or not doing anything at all, and Bertuzzi is best used at and around the net in a scoring capability. This leaves Cleary and Flip, who are both strong two-way players. Flip might be the better option for a third line player, given Clears' scoring ability, but I like the idea of a Cleary/Helm/Eaves third line because Cleary is fast, good defensively, a hard worker, and can score goals. I think that line could work out very well for the Wings. This would dump Homer and Abby to the fourth line with Mursak or Miller, which makes it a playable if not effective line.
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#31 blueadams

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 02:10 AM

1st of all, it's great to be back off of suspension.

2nd of all, lines are a funny thing. there's the way we start the game. and there's the way we play the game. homer's usually gonna start the game off on the first line, for whatever reason. and he's usually gonna end up amongst the bottom three in even strength minutes. babcock works in mysterious, hard-to-put-into-lines-threads, ways.

I'm a big fan of Pav and Val being together. A big, big, big fan. Pav + Val = magic. Maybe not quite as good as Pav + Hank, but I think it's a lot closer than most seem to (Val is a better passer than Hank. There, I said it). Either way, I think we're better overall as a squad with Pav and Hank centering their own seperate lines.

Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Helm-Eaves
Miller/Mursak-Abdelkader-Holmstrom

I love those lines.

I love Val-Pav-Cleary. I love Mule-Hank-Bert. And I think that third line might really click. Helm and Eaves make up for Hudler's defensive short-comings. Hudler's ability to hold on and distribute the puck with those speedy, offensively improving forwards really gives them something. If it doesn't work out, scratch huds and throw mursak or miller up there.

4th line is basically a waste line as it's drawn up. But it never plays out how it's drawn up. All three of those guys can play special teams and be rotated in on other lines seamlessly. Abby and Miller or Mursak on the PK. Homer on the PP. Homer rotating in for Cleary and Bert. Abby rotating in for Hudler...or even Cleary or Bert. Miller or Mursak rotating in for Hudler or Eaves. It all works out fine and dandy.

Edited by blueadams, 21 August 2011 - 02:12 AM.


#32 Shaman

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 03:12 AM

Filppula - Datsyuk - Franzen
Holmstrom - Zetterberg - Helm
Cleary - Hudler - Bertuzzi
Eaves - Miller - Abdelkader

Helm has no business playing Wing on the second line, it negates his strengths, especially his excellent defensive play. He is the third line center, unless Filpulla gets demoted.
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#33 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 03:44 AM

Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Franzen - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Abdelkader - Bertuzzi
Mursak - Helm - Eaves

That's the best, most well rounded combination possible IMO.

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#34 dragonballgtz

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 07:23 AM

Honestly IMO Homer should have never gotten that 2nd year on his contract. Last year should've been his last.

#35 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:09 AM

Ok genius. Make a lineup which keeps Homer out of the top six and has Brunnstrom off the roster. Who's in your top six? Dats, Z, Flip, Bert, Franzen, Cleary? But what then is your third line? Or your fourth line? If you dress that top six and the Mursak/Helm/Eaves line, you end up with Hudler/Abby/Homer. That line is frakkin' ridiculous. It doesn't make sense to not have Huds on the top two lines, especially in a situation where you are assuming the fact of Homer not being there. Dats and Z are the best players, Franzen is either scoring a bunch of goals or not doing anything at all, and Bertuzzi is best used at and around the net in a scoring capability. This leaves Cleary and Flip, who are both strong two-way players. Flip might be the better option for a third line player, given Clears' scoring ability, but I like the idea of a Cleary/Helm/Eaves third line because Cleary is fast, good defensively, a hard worker, and can score goals. I think that line could work out very well for the Wings. This would dump Homer and Abby to the fourth line with Mursak or Miller, which makes it a playable if not effective line.


Good thing is I'm not the coach and neither are you. I'll bite my tongue if Hudler's on the top line. Highly doubt it UNLESS he's done something this offseason and is like a new player this year. :P I see Abby or Helm making the jump to one of the top lines somehow.

Unfortunately my lines are something like this

Franzen-Datsyuk-Homer
Cleary-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Abby-Filppula-Hudler
Mursak/Miller-Helm-Eaves

Every line will be changed up a bit this year for sure pending on who's producing and what not. I think out of the top 6 on our team Dats, Hank and Franzen are the only givens. People will be rotated in and out. Going to be fun to see and looking forward to training camp. Maybe some surprises maybe not.

#36 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 10:36 AM

no one has suggested that Eaves could be on the top 6. He has the wheels for Dats and also a great wrist shot to get some points, 25 goals in his 2 years with the Wings on mainly 3 and 4th line duties. Could be he may be promoted but then again that splits up a probable 4th line of some potential with Helm and Mursak.
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#37 13dangledangle

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 11:06 AM

no one has suggested that Eaves could be on the top 6. He has the wheels for Dats and also a great wrist shot to get some points, 25 goals in his 2 years with the Wings on mainly 3 and 4th line duties. Could be he may be promoted but then again that splits up a probable 4th line of some potential with Helm and Mursak.


I think your right on the money about that line four. Helm could move up a spot or two as well but they just do that job so perfectly. I would like some people on here to throw out some of the best line four combo's the league has to offer and pair them up against Mursak, Helm and Eaves. Last year on many, many nights I couldnt wait for line four to come on the ice so we could sustain pressure in the offensive end for a while.
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#38 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:44 PM

For the most part yes.

He's not going to be a penalty killer or defensive specialist role or whatever by design, not through lack of effort obviously, he's pretty much here now for offense only, so he's most useful when he is with one or both of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Lines change up all the time though so it's all but apparent we will see him in a 1st and a 4th line role sometime whenever it is that Datsyuk's or Zetterberg's line dries up, as that pretty much happens to all players and lines and some point. In the 2009 playoffs, which weren't his best output, he was on a 3rd/4th line off and on with Helm and that line had some success (i.e. Game 6 OT playoff winner vs. the Blackhawks in the WCF, Modano-Flipper-Homer line late last season had some things going as well).

And, given that Holmstrom is going to be retiring sooner than later, it wouldn't shock me if he is scratched a game here/there late in the season if the Wings place in the standings is all but determined for the playoffs.

I highly doubt we will see him scratched on a somewhat consistent basis due to his age or whatever (like Chelios his last year), he's still far too effective to be scratched consistently.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 21 August 2011 - 12:45 PM.


#39 LidstromIsASuperhero

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:54 PM

I say leave him on the top line at least for now. Its his last year, and the year after this I see us icing a top line of datsyuk zetterberg and Franzen.

#40 South Dakota wings fan

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:12 PM

Z-Dats-Cleary
Mule-Flip-Bert
Homer-Abby-Mursak
Miller-Helm-Eaves
Huds-Emmerton

???





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