Will Ericsson Earn His Raise?

[esteef 2,679]

Big E just needs to throw the big right more when he gets the chance.

esteef

[sibiriak 84]

On the numbers......

He's played in North America for 5 years. First season was with GR in 2006-2007. They've been exclusively "teaching" him either in GR or up with the Wings for 5 years. Fairly quickly??

Pronger was also 20 years old in his third season....not 27! His third year in the NHL was 1995-1996.

At 27 he statistically should be in his prime. If what we've seen so far is any indication of his prime, then he is way over-paid! Flat out.

I understand your concern, but we are comparing a 2nd overall pick and a 291st overall pick. 4 more years of development seems about right in this case.

And Pronger turned 21 a week into his 3rd season Not to nitpick, but when correcting my math, you should make sure of your own. This of course doesn't negate your argument.

[Guest Heaten]

His contract looks overpaid right now but by the end of the year people will see its fair. Next year it will be, yet, another Kenny Holland steal.

[ElCapitan 14]

This is such a dumb argument. When Kronwall signed his deal four years ago, he was still new and it was looked upon as a risk. Now it's an excellent deal, but at the time it was a chance. Meanwhile salaries have inflated massively.

When Kronwall gets a new contract this summer, he'll be making substantially more than Ericsson.

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Unbelievably bad contract. He will be a serviceable defenceman, not bad, but not great. How does that justify over 3 million a season? Amazing.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

^ COULD BE a bad contract, not is at present.

The majority of people were s**tting a brick at the time of Datsyuk's and Kronwall's current contracts when they were starting out, saying they were overpaid as well. They've more than earned their keep.

Does Ericsson have the same potential as those two? I don't think so. But COULD HE be worth his contract down the road? Without question yes. Unfortuantely that can't be determined yet and people are naturally prone to being more knee-jerkish instead of being patient and waiting how things will turn out in the overall sense.

Edited September 14, 2011 by SouthernWingsFan

[kylee 727]

Why is the waive trade idea even an option? He just signed a 3 year deal. But with that being said no he will not earn his raise. Making more money wont make him tougher or smarter in his own zone.

[sputman 1,268]

i don't think ericsson will ever earn any contract in detroit for some people unless he starts kicking everybody's ass, clears everybody out of the crease without taking any "stupid" penalties, and makes no mistakes whatsoever (which is hard, especially since we've watched lidstrom for years and years and the 1 or 2 mistakes he's ever made - it's hard for anybody when that's the standard).

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

I understand your concern, but we are comparing a 2nd overall pick and a 291st overall pick. 4 more years of development seems about right in this case.

And Pronger turned 21 a week into his 3rd season Not to nitpick, but when correcting my math, you should make sure of your own. This of course doesn't negate your argument.

So why exactly then are we paying the 291st draft pick who's had five years playing in Northa America and still plays at an average level.... 3Mill per? I don't have an answer. A lot of pressure on him this year and that salary makes him a roster liability if he doesn't deliver night-in and night-out. I hope the best for Big E and would like to see him play for us for a long time though.

btw....so what age was Pronger when he played his first game in his third season? 20. Not to nitpick though. Fair point on draft position.

[sputman 1,268]

So why exactly then are we paying the 291st draft pick who's had five years playing in Northa America and still plays at an average level.... 3Mill per? I don't have an answer. A lot of pressure on him this year and that salary makes him a roster liability if he doesn't deliver night-in and night-out. I hope the best for Big E and would like to see him play for us for a long time though.

btw....so what age was Pronger when he played his first game in his third season? 20. Not to nitpick though. Fair point on draft position.

it's been beaten to death i think, but it is generally agreed that babcock, holland and co. have their jobs because they know what the hell they are doing. they work with ericsson day in and day out, so they probably know more about him and his potential than we ever will.

and that last point, when players that young are used it is done out of necessity. thankfully our team is not that desperate.

[stevkrause 1,247]

This thread = throwing gas on a fire

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

and that last point, when players that young are used it is done out of necessity. thankfully our team is not that desperate.

Ummm....Datsyuk? Filppula? Howard? Zetty? All started with the Wings under 24 years old....with a solid lineup already on the ice for the Wings. In no means desperate, we we're coming off winning the Stanley Cup and annual Cup contenders. Our development system may keep some still developing/show promise players on the shelf (GR) for longer than other organizations, but talent is talent at any age.

[sputman 1,268]

Ummm....Datsyuk? Filppula? Howard? Zetty?

filpulla was 22, had put in his time at grand rapids, and played a 4th line role his first year with detroit.

howard was 25 when he got the starting nod after putting in 3 seasons with grand rapids.

zetterberg was 21, datsyuk 23 and are the exception for having not started in grand rapids, but they had 4th line roles during their first season.

pronger was 18.

i think having a 4th line role is quite a bit different than breaking straight into the league and taking on a top line d-pairing.

and why the hell are we comparing ericsson to pronger?

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Quite frankly I think Kindl, assuming he gets a fair deal, will look like the better defenceman at the end of the season.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

i think having a 4th line role is quite a bit different than breaking straight into the league and taking on a top line d-pairing.

and why the hell are we comparing ericsson to pronger?

I agree!!! That's what my point has been....why are we paying a 27 year old, 291st draft pick, 4th liner/3rd D pair, 3 Mil a year?? Many have been saying "just wait a few more years...and E will magically turn into this great/top pairing Dman and it will be a great contract for the Wings"....he's been in our system for 5 years (4 of those getting ice time with the Wings) and still just average (some..not me, would argue he's below average). I just don't get it. But hey, Kenny and crew know a lot more about analyzing talent and future upside then I do and I completley trust them. It's not that we offered him an extension, but the money. The money is my big hangup.

We are comparing E to Pronger because poster Sibiriak was trying to compare Prongers numbers in his 3rd NHL season to Ericsson's. Ericcson's is in his prime (when it comes to age in the NHL) at age 27/3rd season and Pronger was a mere 20 years old. At age 27 Pronger was one of the best Dmen in the league. No comparison.

[chrisdetroit 189]

The same people bitching about E's contract were bitching about Kronwall's a few years ago. They are going to be eating crow by the end of the year (again).

He's big but not physical, therefore in the opinion of LGW, he sucks...

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

The same people bitching about E's contract were bitching about Kronwall's a few years ago. They are going to be eating crow by the end of the year (again).

He's big but not physical, therefore in the opinion of LGW, he sucks...

I hear you, and remember those folks hating on the Kronner contract. I was not one of them, as I believe Kronner is in a different stratosphere as a player than Big E. I hope to be eating crow. No problem doing so as long as it's for the sake of the Wings.

[Guest 13GoWings40]

I agree!!! That's what my point has been....why are we paying a 27 year old, 291st draft pick, 4th liner/3rd D pair, 3 Mil a year?? Many have been saying "just wait a few more years...and E will magically turn into this great/top pairing Dman and it will be a great contract for the Wings"....he's been in our system for 5 years (4 of those getting ice time with the Wings) and still just average (some..not me, would argue he's below average). I just don't get it. But hey, Kenny and crew know a lot more about analyzing talent and future upside then I do and I completley trust them. It's not that we offered him an extension, but the money. The money is my big hangup.

We are comparing E to Pronger because poster Sibiriak was trying to compare Prongers numbers in his 3rd NHL season to Ericsson's. Ericcson's is in his prime (when it comes to age in the NHL) at age 27/3rd season and Pronger was a mere 20 years old. At age 27 Pronger was one of the best Dmen in the league. No comparison.

I don't think anyone is saying E will become Lids' replacement or anything. When you look at the market rate for defensemen and take into account the cap inflation that has occurred every season, Ericsson's contract will look like a deal if E pans out to be a solid second pairing guy. A little over $3 million is very reasonable for a #4 and a good deal for a #3. This deal will never be a Vokoun in Washington sort of steal, but if it saves us half a million a year, that's enough to sign another player.

Edited September 14, 2011 by 13GoWings40

[toby91_ca 620]

The problem is when will the cap hit look good? It's only a 3 year deal, so he better get better quickly, otherwise, the cap hit may look okay later, but that doens't mean it was a good deal. Kronwall's was a 5 year deal, so if you overpay for the first year or 2, that's okay if you are getting a good deal in the remaining 3 or 4 years. You don't have that situation with this deal.

It's not that Holland knows more than most, he knows he's taking a risk here, he's just hoping it pays off. Some work, some don't, but if you don't take those risks, you remain average.

[Guest 13GoWings40]

The problem is when will the cap hit look good? It's only a 3 year deal, so he better get better quickly, otherwise, the cap hit may look okay later, but that doens't mean it was a good deal. Kronwall's was a 5 year deal, so if you overpay for the first year or 2, that's okay if you are getting a good deal in the remaining 3 or 4 years. You don't have that situation with this deal.

It's not that Holland knows more than most, he knows he's taking a risk here, he's just hoping it pays off. Some work, some don't, but if you don't take those risks, you remain average.

This is where I think we as Wings fans have been spoiled with some of the "hometown discounts" players have taken in recent years. Not every deal we sign can be 50-75% of the player's market value.

Look at it this way, in the next two years do you think it's possible that offensively and/or physically Ericsson can improve enough to be as good or better than White? White's contract was generally considered very fair or even a win for the Wings.

To compare the two, last season Ericsson was 3-12-15 and +8 while White was 4-22-26 and +3. Give Ericsson some PP time with better players and I believe he can make up the 1 goal and 10 assists White has on him.

Right now E's the #5, in line for #4 when the day we won't talk about comes. I could even see him bumping White off Lidstrom's pair if his season is going well and $3 million is roughly what 2nd pairing D-men make. This is not a bad contract.

[Guest Heaten]

I don't think Ericsson's contract is "bad" right now. I think it's around fair market value based on the new cap increase and lack of dmen available at FA frenzy. Ericsson would have gotten that or more if he chose to test FA.

I think by the end of the year many will avoid the subject because they know they will be force fed to eating crow. The same people were crying about Datsuyk and Kronwall's contract just a short time ago.. and if it you're not the same people, you are the same "type" of people. Question is, will you eat crow when you are proven wrong, or are you going to run and hide like cowards?

I am bookmarking this thread

[55fan 5,133]

If he uses the money to buy new pants, it will be worth it.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I don't think Ericsson's contract is "bad" right now. I think it's around fair market value based on the new cap increase and lack of dmen available at FA frenzy. Ericsson would have gotten that or more if he chose to test FA.

I think by the end of the year many will avoid the subject because they know they will be force fed to eating crow. The same people were crying about Datsuyk and Kronwall's contract just a short time ago.. and if it you're not the same people, you are the same "type" of people. Question is, will you eat crow when you are proven wrong, or are you going to run and hide like cowards?

I am bookmarking this thread

Well the bad thing about this is you get 3 years to prove that you were right. The people that don't think that E will live up to it only get 1 year. The question is if he does good this year but sucks it up the next 2 will you eat crow? Knowing you..probably not because you have that one year that he did good and was worth the 3mil.

[redwingfan19 293]

if big E uses his size more, clears the crease, and beats the piss out of people, he will be worth the contract. he needs to become a physical force, when E plays with a chip on his shoulder he is more involved in the game and at his best.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

The guy has to play well, for his own confidence, because can you imagine the pressure the media and fans will start placing on him if he struggles??