Hudler?

[Guest Heaten]

Glad to see Hudler is playing well.

[Guest Crymson]

We already discussed his no-show the last 2 years against the Sharks. What else do you want me to rehash?

We didn't discuss it at all. You spent several posts trying to cover for the fact that your "Franzen's 2010 playoffs were MISERABLE!" comment was utter nonsense. I'm not sure if you really want people to believe that you feel Franzen no-showed the playoffs that year. They would likely not think very well of you, given that he was one of the best playoff performers of any team in that offseason.

[Scott Stevens 44]

We didn't discuss it at all. You spent several posts trying to cover for the fact that your "Franzen's 2010 playoffs were MISERABLE!" comment was utter nonsense. I'm not sure if you really want people to believe that you feel Franzen no-showed the playoffs that year. They would likely not think very well of you, given that he was one of the best playoff performers of any team in that offseason.

Franzen killed it in ONE game in 2010 and wasn't the same in all the rest. He hasn't played like himself the last 2 playoff seasons. The Sharks have something to do with this, because they are good. But he has to pick it up this year. Everyone knows this.

[Guest Crymson]

Franzen killed it in ONE game in 2010 and wasn't the same in all the rest. He hasn't played like himself the last 2 playoff seasons. The Sharks have something to do with this, because they are good. But he has to pick it up this year. Everyone knows this.

Franzen was scoring a point per game throughout the playoffs otherwise and was drawing great reviews from every analyst. And then, yes, he basically won a vital game by himself as well. As for "not being himself" in the rest of the games, LOL... if ANY player was regularly like Franzen was in game four, then that player's team would never lose. Franzen's game four against the Sharks in 2010 was one of the best playoff games ever played by any player. If you're expecting that out of him or anyone, then you're going to be disappointed. But you don't expect that; you're just saying all of this to cover for the fact that you made a baseless statement.

You're trying toooooo hard.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Crymson

[Scott Stevens 44]

Franzen was scoring a point per game throughout the playoffs otherwise and was drawing great reviews from every analyst. And then, yes, he basically won a vital game by himself as well. As for "not being himself" in the rest of the games, LOL... if ANY player was regularly like Franzen was in game four, then that player's team would never lose. Franzen's game four against the Sharks in 2010 was one of the best playoff games ever played by any player. If you're expecting that out of him or anyone, then you're going to be disappointed. But you don't expect that; you're just saying all of this to cover for the fact that you made a baseless statement.

You're trying toooooo hard.

Let's just see if Franzen can get back to his old self. We need it. Hudler is back to his old self. Now we gotta get Franzen back.

[Kerjuxaxaxa 6]

Let's just see if Franzen can get back to his old self. We need it. Hudler is back to his old self. Now we gotta get Franzen back.

Are you confident with Hudler? We only have seen 3.66 % of the regular season.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm glad someone realizes that a winger can only be so good depending on the center he has to play with. I think a lot of people on here wouldn't know why Jari Kurri ended up with 600 goals and Willy Lindstrom did not.

Jari Kurri is one of the best wingers to ever play. Sure, his stats would not be as good had he not played with Gretzky. But he was an absolutely elite goal scorer, and a top notch defensive forward. In his prime there wasn't a better winger on either side of the rink. I would personally rank him above Brett Hull all-time.

Brett Hull had a couple good seasons without Adam Oates. When he was playing with Craig Janney, another top playmaker. But he never scored 50 goals (or 50-goal pace, if you project the 95 season) without Oates or Janney.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Are you confident with Hudler? We only have seen 3.66 % of the regular season.

Oh yah. Hudler is back. Franzen is still working his way back. He's doing pretty good, but he has a lot more to prove this year than Hudler does.

[eva unit zero 271]

Oh yah. Hudler is back. Franzen is still working his way back. He's doing pretty good, but he has a lot more to prove this year than Hudler does.

That's debateable. Hudler didn't have a great series against San Jose after having done extremely well in 2008 and 2009. He didn't create many chances for the first 15 games or so of last season and then didn't capitalize for the next 15 after that, before finally starting to produce. He ended up having a stellar second half, but overall his season was poor compared to expectations and his previous performances - and ultimately a disappointment - despite the fact his scoring was at low-end top-six forward level.

Franzen had a great first half before disappearing down the stretch. He looked good offensively in the first game of the playoffs but was poor defensively, and was then injured and it was hard to tell whether his ineffective play after that was injury-related or simply a continuation of his slump.

But overall, Franzen's season came out to about what was expected of him; he put up around 50 points, and led the team in goals.

If the second half play of each player continues into this year, Franzen will definitely have some 'splainin' to do. But right now Hudler is the one who is in the hot seat. Well, Ericsson probably moreso, given his new deal, Hudler's past performances in 2008 and 2009, and the way Kindl has been consistently pressing on whoever is above him in the depth chart (nearly stealing Salei's spot last year, pushing hard to take the #5 spot this year) one could say that E is the guy who has the most to prove.

[Scott Stevens 44]

That's debateable. Hudler didn't have a great series against San Jose after having done extremely well in 2008 and 2009. He didn't create many chances for the first 15 games or so of last season and then didn't capitalize for the next 15 after that, before finally starting to produce. He ended up having a stellar second half, but overall his season was poor compared to expectations and his previous performances - and ultimately a disappointment - despite the fact his scoring was at low-end top-six forward level.

Franzen had a great first half before disappearing down the stretch. He looked good offensively in the first game of the playoffs but was poor defensively, and was then injured and it was hard to tell whether his ineffective play after that was injury-related or simply a continuation of his slump.

But overall, Franzen's season came out to about what was expected of him; he put up around 50 points, and led the team in goals.

If the second half play of each player continues into this year, Franzen will definitely have some 'splainin' to do. But right now Hudler is the one who is in the hot seat. Well, Ericsson probably moreso, given his new deal, Hudler's past performances in 2008 and 2009, and the way Kindl has been consistently pressing on whoever is above him in the depth chart (nearly stealing Salei's spot last year, pushing hard to take the #5 spot this year) one could say that E is the guy who has the most to prove.

The Mule can be a force when he's ON. He's been OFF for a while now. I just want to see him get back on track and become the wrecking ball he used to be. Hudler has never been a force. He's always been a crafty 30-40 point third liner. I don't see what's wrong with giving him 5 years / 12.5 million to play his role on the team.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Jari Kurri is one of the best wingers to ever play. Sure, his stats would not be as good had he not played with Gretzky. But he was an absolutely elite goal scorer, and a top notch defensive forward. In his prime there wasn't a better winger on either side of the rink. I would personally rank him above Brett Hull all-time.

Brett Hull had a couple good seasons without Adam Oates. When he was playing with Craig Janney, another top playmaker. But he never scored 50 goals (or 50-goal pace, if you project the 95 season) without Oates or Janney.

I'm mostly with you in your assessment of Kurri (it's not like they could've plugged anyone in with Gretzky and they would've put up those point totals) but you always seem to have something in your posts that makes me laugh.

Hull had "a couple good seasons without Oates?"

What exactly constitutes a good season to you? Sure he may not have put up 131 points like in '91, but he put up great point totals more than a few times in his career. As much as Oates was a huge help, you don't score 741 goals in the NHL from a few good seasons.

[Scott Stevens 44]

I'm mostly with you in your assessment of Kurri (it's not like they could've plugged anyone in with Gretzky and they would've put up those point totals) but you always seem to have something in your posts that makes me laugh.

Hull had "a couple good seasons without Oates?"

What exactly constitutes a good season to you? Sure he may not have put up 131 points like in '91, but he put up great point totals more than a few times in his career. As much as Oates was a huge help, you don't score 741 goals in the NHL from a few good seasons.

Yah,

I think Bernie Nicholls is more of the "a few good seasons" type of guy. Brett Hull was pretty money all the way through.

[Guest Crymson]

Oh yah. Hudler is back. Franzen is still working his way back. He's doing pretty good, but he has a lot more to prove this year than Hudler does.

Sigh. I'm done wasting my time here.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Crymson

[Scott Stevens 44]

Sigh. I'm done wasting my time here.

Hudler is currently out-producing Franzen at this point in the season. I think that shows that Franzen might not be where he wants to be yet. We'll see as the games roll on. But I think Franzen really struggled with injuries the last two years, and he has a lot to prove coming back from them this year.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler is currently out-producing Franzen at this point in the season.

So is Drew Miller.

David Legwand leads the league in scoring, and has more than twice as many points as Datsyuk; he's on pace to score 55-137-192 this year. Zetterberg and Datsyuk only have 4 points between them in 3 games. Trade Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Legwand NOW, before we're stuck with old do-nothings and Nashville has the best player ever to lace them up!

[eva unit zero 271]

Yah,

I think Bernie Nicholls is more of the "a few good seasons" type of guy. Brett Hull was pretty money all the way through.

Bernie Nicholls averaged almost 90 points per 80 games for seven seasons in Los Angeles playing mostly as the second line center. When Gretzky came to LA, Nicholls was placed on his Wing and scored 70 goals and 150 points; one of only five players to hit that mark and the only player ever do it on the wing, although because he was officially listed as a center he is not credited with the record ahead of Jagr's 149 in 1995-96.

If you lay out the years Brett Hull played lower lines and then compare them in stark immediate contrast to playing as the go-to guy with a top playmaker, Hull ends up with a similar profile. Hull, fortunately, spent most of his career playing with skilled centermen. Nicholls was often his team's go-to-guy for scoring, or was put in a secondary role where he was easily the most talented player on his line.

If you want a guy whose scoring benefited greatly from players around him, try Rob Brown. In his first three seasons he played 199 games, almost all on Mario Lemieux's wing. He scored 106 goals and 239 points in that time. The next season, 1990-91, Jaromir Jagr took that spot and Brown's production dropped enormously; he scored 16 points in 25 games before being traded to Hartford. Outside of those first three seasons, he posted 84 goals and 199 points in 344 games.

Over an 80 game season, that is a change from:

Lemieux: 43-53-96

Not Lemieux: 20-27-47

His production more than halved when he was separated from Lemieux, despite the fact he should have been in his prime. By comparison, Nicholls' production with Gretzky in the 127 games they played together compared to pre-Gretzky was as follows:

Pre-Gretzky: 39-48-87

With Gretzky: 62-81-143

Yes, there is a serious disparity. But Nicholls still averaged 79 points per 80 games without Gretzky, despite finishing his career out as a defensive center and team leader in San Jose. Removing his time with Gretzky and his time in LA and his time in San Jose keeps him at over a point per game. Pretty impressive for someone who "needed an elite center" to succeed. If you take away Hull's seasons with Oates, he averages almost exactly the same points-per-game as Nicholls did without Gretzky. Interesting.

[Nightfall 871]

And THIS is where I'm in total agreement with you! Franzen is NOT Mario Lemieux.

Franzen plays with this Zetterberg and Cleary and sees about 4 minutes more ice time per game.

Hudler plays with Filppula and Abdelkader.

Noone should have any problems making a connection as to why Hudler has lower point production than Franzen.

Is Hudler better than Franzen? I don't think so. I'm not questioning Hudler or Franzen's placement on the depth chart. I'm questioning the LGW posters' ability to recognize the probable/acceptable point production that should come out of someone's placement on the depth chart.

Hudler putting up 40-50 points on the third line is WHAT HE SHOULD DO!!!

Then why is no one sticking up for Hudler? If he is doing his job, what is the problem?

40-50 points for a 3rd line player is pretty good, but he has hit that mark and came up 3 points short from doing that last year.

So far, I am impressed with Hudler's performance this season. We will see how things go the rest of the season, but a 40-50 point campaign for a 3rd liner would be great. I predicted a 60 point campaign for him this season at the start.

[eva unit zero 271]

And THIS is where I'm in total agreement with you! Franzen is NOT Mario Lemieux.

Franzen plays with this Zetterberg and Cleary and sees about 4 minutes more ice time per game.

Hudler plays with Filppula and Abdelkader.

Noone should have any problems making a connection as to why Hudler has lower point production than Franzen.

Is Hudler better than Franzen? I don't think so. I'm not questioning Hudler or Franzen's placement on the depth chart. I'm questioning the LGW posters' ability to recognize the probable/acceptable point production that should come out of someone's placement on the depth chart.

Hudler putting up 40-50 points on the third line is WHAT HE SHOULD DO!!!

Actually, third line scoring last season - as in the 181st through 270th forward by total points - would be 20 to 34 points. Hudler has ranked as a second liner or better in each of the last three seasons, and a very solid third liner the year before - which was his rookie season.

He's a top six forward, and this season will prove to be a first liner.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Actually, third line scoring last season - as in the 181st through 270th forward by total points - would be 20 to 34 points. Hudler has ranked as a second liner or better in each of the last three seasons, and a very solid third liner the year before - which was his rookie season.

He's a top six forward, and this season will prove to be a first liner.

He's got 4 points in 4 games, and he really hasn't even hit his stride yet. I predict a lot of good things for Huds this season.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Hudler is a big part of the the resurgence of Filppula and Franzen right now. Tonight showed that Filppula and Franzen play good with Huds alongside them. Points for all of them tonight.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Flip and Huds have always played well together, I'm confused as to why Babs didn't try them together more often last season when Huds was clearly struggling.

[BlakKy 58]

Anyone who says he isn't doing the right things this season is lying.

See his redirection last night against Minny to exemplify this statement.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Anyone who says he isn't doing the right things this season is lying.

See his redirection last night against Minny to exemplify this statement.

Yah, he's doing very well. I can't wait to see what his stats look like after 20 games.

[eva unit zero 271]

Yah, he's doing very well. I can't wait to see what his stats look like after 20 games.

If nothing changes, he'll be 10 goals, 10 assists, 20 points, +20... and have scored a point in every game.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

So far this season, he's earning his salary. It's about time. Maybe his agent should begin talks to renegotiate his contract.