Hudler?

[Scott Stevens 44]

Just wanted to say that I was definitely wrong to count out Hudler so quick. He's been real solid so far these past three games and hopefully him, Filppula and Franzen can keep it going all year together.

Do you think Hudler should wear the "A" when Lidstrom retires and Z gets the "C"?

[Z and D for the C 712]

Do you think Hudler should wear the "A" when Lidstrom retires and Z gets the "C"?

I'm sorry is that a serious question.

[under_par_00 45]

We all know that Hudler is next in line for the 'C' right behind Lids!!!

[Scott Stevens 44]

I'm sorry is that a serious question.

Ha Ha Ha. Not really. I just like the nickname you chose. It will be cool to see who gets the other A when Lidstrom does retire in 5 years. Kronwall probably.

[Guest Crymson]

They must be doing something right, their PP was fifth most efficient last season, and has consistently been one of the best in the NHL since time immemorial.

He'll start complaining about Cleary soon. He hated on Cleary constantly on his last account.

[Crashnburnluder 385]

Ha Ha Ha. Not really. I just like the nickname you chose. It will be cool to see who gets the other A when Lidstrom does retire in 5 years. Kronwall probably.

Since the captains are already Lids with Z and Datsyuk and Kronwall rolling the Home and Away A, I'm going to assume barring anything extreme or a locker room incident involving him Kronner will be an Assitant Captain next season...

[GongShow94 2]

Putting him with dats was a very good choice this season to get our moneys worth out of him but I still need to see him play like this for awhile longer before I will admit I was wrong about him.

[eva unit zero 271]

Putting him with dats was a very good choice this season to get our moneys worth out of him but I still need to see him play like this for awhile longer before I will admit I was wrong about him.

Hudler has more points without Datsyuk than with Datsyuk, and leads the team in scoring. Yes it's three games, but it's fun to say after last year and the summer.

[GongShow94 2]

Hudler has more points without Datsyuk than with Datsyuk, and leads the team in scoring. Yes it's three games, but it's fun to say after last year and the summer.

I was saying just in general putting hudler with dats was a smart choice. I think a little of dats needs to rub off on hudler... look at last season how well he played on dats line.

[Scott Stevens 44]

I was saying just in general putting hudler with dats was a smart choice. I think a little of dats needs to rub off on hudler... look at last season how well he played on dats line.

I think what everyone forgets is that there is an equation that should be used when assessing the NET value of a winger for Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

X + Z = X + AC +20

Player + Zetterberg (or Datsyuk) = Player + Average Center + 20 points

So if Hudler scores 65 points this year playing all year with Datsyuk, it would be quite foolish to say "Well now he deserves 5 million a season since he scored 20 more points than last year". If Hudler scores 90 points this season, the conversation is a lot different.

I'm not saying any of us would look good out there with Datsyuk, but I know he can make any NHLer look good.

[eva unit zero 271]

He will ask for at least $5M if he scores 80pts and even at 80pts, $5M is way too much for Hudler on this team.

So you think Franzen is significantly overpaid then? He got $4m for under 60 points. Contracts have inflated by at least 20%. Hudler getting $5m for 80 points at a younger age would be less of an overpayment.

[eva unit zero 271]

I think what everyone forgets is that there is an equation that should be used when assessing the NET value of a winger for Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

X + Z = X + AC +20

Player + Zetterberg (or Datsyuk) = Player + Average Center + 20 points

So if Hudler scores 65 points this year playing all year with Datsyuk, it would be quite foolish to say "Well now he deserves 5 million a season since he scored 20 more points than last year". If Hudler scores 90 points this season, the conversation is a lot different.

I'm not saying any of us would look good out there with Datsyuk, but I know he can make any NHLer look good.

So in other words, you're saying that our "elite sniper" Franzen is a 35-40 point winger without an elite center? Funny, that is about what Hudler put up last year in a "horrible season" playing a lot of the year with below average (offensively) players.

What exactly is the answer? Is Franzen a creature of circumstance? If Hudler scores 60+, was it all Dats/Z?

[newfy 695]

So you think Franzen is significantly overpaid then? He got $4m for under 60 points. Contracts have inflated by at least 20%. Hudler getting $5m for 80 points at a younger age would be less of an overpayment.

Arguably the best playoff performer the last 3 years, who is a big body that can throw the occasional big hit and plays pretty damn good defensively has a lot more going for him in contract talks than a one dimensional streaky scorer.

[Scott Stevens 44]

So in other words, you're saying that our "elite sniper" Franzen is a 35-40 point winger without an elite center? Funny, that is about what Hudler put up last year in a "horrible season" playing a lot of the year with below average (offensively) players.

What exactly is the answer? Is Franzen a creature of circumstance? If Hudler scores 60+, was it all Dats/Z?

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Johan Franzen is NOT Alexander Ovechkin.

No way Franzen goes over 40 points a season without Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk. No way. He's an average skater at best and he doesn't crash the net. He's a perimeter player that needs someone like Datsyuk or Zetterberg to open the ice up for him. Cleary, Filppula, Helm, and Abdelkader do not fall into that category. All of those guys can open up ice by themselves. Franzen, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom cannot.

If Hudler plays with Datsyuk all year long and neither of them are hurt for extended periods, anything shy of 60 points from Hudler would be a failure in my opinion. Anything above 70 points would be a successful campaign for Happy.

[Scott Stevens 44]

He'll start complaining about Cleary soon. He hated on Cleary constantly on his last account.

Wrong Again, Buster!

I like Cleary a lot. If it were up to me, I'd have it look like this when everyone healthy:

Cleary-Datsyuk-Helm

Franzen-Zetterberg-Filppula

Mursak-Abdelkader-Hudler

Miller-Eaves-Tatar/Emmerton/Brunnstrom

I like young and fast. I don't like old and slow.

[eva unit zero 271]

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Johan Franzen is NOT Alexander Ovechkin.

No way Franzen goes over 40 points a season without Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk. No way. He's an average skater at best and he doesn't crash the net. He's a perimeter player that needs someone like Datsyuk or Zetterberg to open the ice up for him. Cleary, Filppula, Helm, and Abdelkader do not fall into that category. All of those guys can open up ice by themselves. Franzen, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom cannot.

If Hudler plays with Datsyuk all year long and neither of them are hurt for extended periods, anything shy of 60 points from Hudler would be a failure in my opinion. Anything above 70 points would be a successful campaign for Happy.

Franzen can open up ice just fine. His biggest issues are that he's lazy and inconsistent. They're probably related. He could be a dominant two-way power forward (think early 90s Gary Roberts) if he weren't lazy. He used to be a defensive specialist, but then he became a sniper and stopped working on defense.

[eva unit zero 271]

Arguably the best playoff performer the last 3 years, who is a big body that can throw the occasional big hit and plays pretty damn good defensively has a lot more going for him in contract talks than a one dimensional streaky scorer.

Franzen looked like s*** in last year's playoffs aside from a couple good shifts. And then he got hurt, and people started giving him the ankle excuse as to why he wasn't doing well, even though he was skating about as well as he normally did.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk were both better in 2010. Datsyuk was FAR better last year. Z was hurt last year but much better when he did play. And Z was better in 09. And 08, for that matter. Franzen did outscore Dats in the last three years, but both Dats and Lidstrom outplayed him.

And before you say "Well, that's three top players..." let's look at the last three playoffs both Huds and Franzen played in. Franzen had 44 points in 47 games playing with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg. Hudler had 29 points in 55 games playing with Filppula, Draper, or Helm.

Over 82 games, those numbers work out to 77 for Franzen and 43 for Hudler. Now we take away the requisite 20 that was brought up earlier from Franzen and get 57. That's not a huge difference, given ice time differences between the two. Were it Hudler on Dats or Z's line, would he be the "clutch playoff performer" instead of Franzen?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Eva, you are going nuts.

Hudler is not even close to the playoff performer Franzen is. Never has been, and never will be.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Eva,

Another thing to remember is that Franzen had 2 huge games over the last 2 playoff seasons. He was epic in 08 and 09. I will give that to Franzen. He was a beast and a large part of our cup/finals success. But 10 and 11 were MISERABLE for Franzen, outside of a couple games. He has been invisible for the most part over the last 2 years in the playoffs.

I'm not trying to turn this into a hate on Franzen topic, but I am going to call it like I see it. Fedorov was a consistent playoff performer for the Red Wings. He was never hurt and never disappeared. Franzen = hurt and disappears the last 2 years.

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva, you are going nuts.

Hudler is not even close to the playoff performer Franzen is. Never has been, and never will be.

Theoretical situation.

And in two years, when both of Franzen's knees are 98% carbon fiber and he's contemplating retirement, do you think he'll still outperform Hudler in the playoffs?

Edited October 14, 2011 by eva unit zero

[eva unit zero 271]

He has been invisible for the most part over the last 2 years in the playoffs.

This is my point. Franzen signed a contract at the same time Hudler did. Franzen's was based on a couple good runs and hasn't delivered anywhere near as close to the promised product as Hudler has on his contract.

People ignore that because "he was a beast two or three years ago in the playoffs."

He even admits to slacking off in the regular season. And despite that, he hasn't delivered in the playoffs. Including playoffs last year, he scored 4 goals and 11 assists in his last 35 games. Mostly with Dats, Z, or both.

He's signed for what, another ten years?

I'll take Hudler at that $4m over Franzen if we have to take the entire ten seasons. Although my bet is on Franzen retiring in around four or five.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Franzen can open up ice just fine. His biggest issues are that he's lazy and inconsistent. They're probably related. He could be a dominant two-way power forward (think early 90s Gary Roberts) if he weren't lazy. He used to be a defensive specialist, but then he became a sniper and stopped working on defense.

Franzen isn't lazy! Ha ha ha. I don't even think he's inconsistent. I think he's just slower and less agile than a Gary Roberts type player. That's why he needs a slick center to draw the defensemen away from his shooting lanes.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

This is my point. Franzen signed a contract at the same time Hudler did. Franzen's was based on a couple good runs and hasn't delivered anywhere near as close to the promised product as Hudler has on his contract.

People ignore that because "he was a beast two or three years ago in the playoffs."

Sweet mother of mercy, you need to get a grip on reality. Franzen scored at or above PPG in three consecutive playoff years (2008-2010), and then didn't last year when he was hurt. I guess for the whole one and a half games before he was injured he "played like s***," and even then he still managed a goal and assist.

[eva unit zero 271]

Franzen isn't lazy! Ha ha ha. I don't even think he's inconsistent. I think he's just slower and less agile than a Gary Roberts type player. That's why he needs a slick center to draw the defensemen away from his shooting lanes.

Not inconsistent?

His last 27 games last year he scored 2-10-12.

With Datsyuk and Zetterberg at varying times.

In the 30 game stretch where Hudler was considered to be an AHL player by LGW, he scored 1-5-6. With an unproductive puck-hogging Modano and an injured Cleary.

Roberts also was perfectly capable of producing without a slick center; Franzen is too, he just needs to work hard.

[Scott Stevens 44]

Not inconsistent?

His last 27 games last year he scored 2-10-12.

With Datsyuk and Zetterberg at varying times.

In the 30 game stretch where Hudler was considered to be an AHL player by LGW, he scored 1-5-6. With an unproductive puck-hogging Modano and an injured Cleary.

Roberts also was perfectly capable of producing without a slick center; Franzen is too, he just needs to work hard.

Franzen works hard. Come on. He might have had a bad stretch of games, but come on. Look at his production the last 5 seasons. He's been solid. I'm only agreeing with you that Hudler can put up points with Dats or Zetterberg centering his line. I'm not agreeing with you on Franzen's motivation or work ethic.