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#21 newfy

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:51 PM

Was watching hockey central today at noon and apprently a lot of GMs are pissed at the overdone suspensions, not just us fans.

Pretty soon someone is gonna speak out.

I dont see how a player basically lifting a guys stick into his own face should be worth a suspension, I can see a penalty here obviously but 2 games to one of the cleanest players going?

Something needed to be done Shanny but come on man, the old saying is let the boys play after all

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#22 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:58 PM

Was watching hockey central today at noon and apprently a lot of GMs are pissed at the overdone suspensions, not just us fans.

Pretty soon someone is gonna speak out.

I dont see how a player basically lifting a guys stick into his own face should be worth a suspension, I can see a penalty here obviously but 2 games to one of the cleanest players going?

Something needed to be done Shanny but come on man, the old saying is let the boys play after all

Don Cherry mentioned the GMs speaking out against the suspensions. A double minor for high-sticking would've been enough, hasn't that been the rule for a few years now? Blood drawn=double minor.
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#23 legaleaglewingsfan

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 05:31 AM

This is awful, in my opinion. Give him a 4 minute penalty, 2 games for this is way overboard. I don't think it was reckless by Bouchard, I think they were just jostling and chopping at each other and Calvert's stick lift made Bouchard hit him up high unintentionally.

How many games would this have gotten?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPqovHhSMCs


The only penalty for something like that is the Death Penalty

#24 Konnan511

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:07 AM

Do I need to watch the video longer? I didn't see the cross check.


Cross check / Slash, still careless stick work.
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#25 13dangledangle

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:02 AM

Everyone knew Shanny was going to come in with guns a blazin' this year, and he has. It's 5 days into the season he's not letting up anytime soon. I agree with 2 mins high sticking, and i agree with 4 for drawing blood, however I also agree with 2 games for leaving someones teeth on the ice. Shanny is actually going to make these guys think before reacting, people can ***** all they want to but somewhere along the line SOME guys have lost respect of their fellow players and Shanny is trying to get that back imo.
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#26 toby91_ca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:14 AM

This is awful, in my opinion. Give him a 4 minute penalty, 2 games for this is way overboard. I don't think it was reckless by Bouchard, I think they were just jostling and chopping at each other and Calvert's stick lift made Bouchard hit him up high unintentionally.

How many games would this have gotten?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPqovHhSMCs

The difference is that Foote's was clearly unintentional as he simply tried to lift Yzermans' stick and missed. Yes, you need to be in control of your stick, which is why he got the penalty. In Bouchard's case, again, unintentional to hit him in the face, but he was swinging his stick at the player to slash him....he had intent to hit the other player with his stick, quite a bit different.

I'm torn a bit though as suspending him for that is tough, but if he was deemed that he swung at his head on purpose, he would have been gone for 20 games, so the suspension of 2 games kind of takes that into account.

Was watching hockey central today at noon and apprently a lot of GMs are pissed at the overdone suspensions, not just us fans.

Pretty soon someone is gonna speak out.

I dont see how a player basically lifting a guys stick into his own face should be worth a suspension, I can see a penalty here obviously but 2 games to one of the cleanest players going?

Something needed to be done Shanny but come on man, the old saying is let the boys play after all

I for one am not upset at all about the suspensions. For once, maybe the suspensions will actually mean something, perhaps even be seen as a deterent.

#27 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 10:38 AM

Was watching hockey central today at noon and apprently a lot of GMs are pissed at the overdone suspensions, not just us fans.

Pretty soon someone is gonna speak out.


I dont see how a player basically lifting a guys stick into his own face should be worth a suspension, I can see a penalty here obviously but 2 games to one of the cleanest players going?

Something needed to be done Shanny but come on man, the old saying is let the boys play after all

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#28 GMRwings1983

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:40 AM

Everyone knew Shanny was going to come in with guns a blazin' this year, and he has. It's 5 days into the season he's not letting up anytime soon. I agree with 2 mins high sticking, and i agree with 4 for drawing blood, however I also agree with 2 games for leaving someones teeth on the ice. Shanny is actually going to make these guys think before reacting, people can ***** all they want to but somewhere along the line SOME guys have lost respect of their fellow players and Shanny is trying to get that back imo.


I don't think a slash to the face is an example of players losing respect for one another. There have been a lot worse stick swinging incidents that have happened in hockey history.

Where respect has been lost is in all the cheap hits to the head we see. Those are the suspensions I actually like.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 11 October 2011 - 11:45 AM.

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#29 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:48 AM

I wasn't trying to kill him officer. I was just shooting my gun through the fence. I didn't see him there.

What if the slashed player lost an eye. Would 2 games be too much still? If it had been an accident, sure, 4 min would be enough. But he was INTENTIONALLY slashing him. Regardless of where the stick ended up, he was WRECKLESS and it needed to be addressed. A fine would have also sufficed instead of games IMO.

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#30 GMRwings1983

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

I wasn't trying to kill him officer. I was just shooting my gun through the fence. I didn't see him there.

What if the slashed player lost an eye. Would 2 games be too much still? If it had been an accident, sure, 4 min would be enough. But he was INTENTIONALLY slashing him. Regardless of where the stick ended up, he was WRECKLESS and it needed to be addressed. A fine would have also sufficed instead of games IMO.


Except we're not in a court of law.

I don't think Shanny should be viewing things the way the law would. Hockey is not a safe sport in general.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 11 October 2011 - 11:53 AM.

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#31 Electrophile

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:00 PM

You're right. Hockey isn't a safe sport. The players have the equivalent of sharpened ginsu knives on their feet, they have sticks in their hands, and the vulcanized rubber disk they hit with said sticks, can travel upwards of 100 mph (161 kph for our metric friends).

That doesn't mean steps shouldn't be taken to protect the players as much as possible, without conversely, taking away key aspects of the game. Slashing happens, whether intentionally or otherwise, but when it happens, it should be punished. That doesn't mean Bouchard should have been suspended, because I think suspensions require intent, and while I think he intended to slash him with the stick, I don't think he intended to slash him in the face, which is the key.

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#32 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:52 PM

I wasn't trying to kill him officer. I was just shooting my gun through the fence. I didn't see him there.

What if the slashed player lost an eye. Would 2 games be too much still? If it had been an accident, sure, 4 min would be enough. But he was INTENTIONALLY slashing him. Regardless of where the stick ended up, he was WRECKLESS and it needed to be addressed. A fine would have also sufficed instead of games IMO.

I agree with this part.

A fine and the 4 minute major would've been plenty. Calvert initiated the altercation and Bouchard responded in a way that's a fairly common play in hockey. As slashes go it wasn't particularly vicious, just with an unfortunate outcome.

#33 toby91_ca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 01:12 PM

I agree with this part.

A fine and the 4 minute major would've been plenty. Calvert initiated the altercation and Bouchard responded in a way that's a fairly common play in hockey. As slashes go it wasn't particularly vicious, just with an unfortunate outcome.

Well, the normal way is a slash across the shin pads, not a slash up that high. If there was no injury, he probably would have gotten away with it though.

#34 Pucks

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 01:38 PM

Pretty straight forward, nothing to debate here at all. This is Hockey, not American Gladiators.


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#35 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:00 PM

I just don't get it. Shanny's video spells out, literally, why the suspension is being handed down, but the reasons he gave are for a double minor penalty. It even sounds like he is explaining why he wouldn't suspend Bouchard, stating that he has never received supplemental disciplinary action before. I just don't understand why it wasn't four minutes in the box, call it a lesson learned and move on. It just seems that clean hits are going to be punished if they have an unfortunate outcome. This "new NHL" is going in the crapper if you ask me. It's almost more exciting to watch women's Olympic hockey...ok, scratch that last part.


*edited for spelling.

Edited by Hack & Whack Rule!, 11 October 2011 - 11:02 PM.

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#36 Opie

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:57 AM

It just seems that clean hits are going to be punished if they have an unfortunate outcome. This "new NHL" is going in the crapper if you ask me. It's almost more exciting to watch women's Olympic hockey...ok, scratch that last part.


*edited for spelling.



How on earth is this an example of a clean hit, he slashed/high sticked a guy in the mouth????

Suspensions are supposed to be deterrents, they are supposed to make you think before you swing your stick.

If he meant to hit him in the hand or thigh, it doesn't matter, he hit him in the face.

They don't recall penalties because the guy didn't mean to high stick another player. Think about the times a guy gets high sticked because a player is trying to move out of the zone and brings their stick up over their shoulder. Intentional or not it was careless.

What Bouchard did was not careless or an unfortunate series of events, he high sticked the guy on purpose. Right in the face, with the puck no where near them.

Shanny is sending a message, be careful with both your stick and your body, the head is a place the league is being very protective of.

I would have understood if Shanny said no suspension because he was not a repeat offender, however I also have zero problem with 2 games.

For those of you saying this shouldn't be a suspension, where do you draw the line between this and a McSorley/Simon stick to the head?
Do you put devices on the stick to measure speed of the stick during the hit?
Do you start taping the game with high speed film and have mythbusters figure out the speed?

OR...

Do you suspend for any stick swung intentionally that lands on the head or face?

Edited by Opie, 12 October 2011 - 09:59 AM.

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#37 toby91_ca

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:25 AM

I just don't get it. Shanny's video spells out, literally, why the suspension is being handed down, but the reasons he gave are for a double minor penalty. It even sounds like he is explaining why he wouldn't suspend Bouchard, stating that he has never received supplemental disciplinary action before. I just don't understand why it wasn't four minutes in the box, call it a lesson learned and move on. It just seems that clean hits are going to be punished if they have an unfortunate outcome. This "new NHL" is going in the crapper if you ask me. It's almost more exciting to watch women's Olympic hockey...ok, scratch that last part.


*edited for spelling.

The difference is that the double minor would apply for an accidental "high stick" - this was a slash....big difference.

#38 fixxxer

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:15 AM

I dunno when players are playing in corners and someone gets a stick up in the face is understandable accidents happen. But this happens off the face off there's no reason anyone stick should be above their waist. I think I read somewhere that he was trying to get his hands? Either case is stupid move and he shouldn't have even targeting his hands. Maybe two games is a bit much but 1 game I think would have been fine but really whats a 1 game difference. He was careless with his stick during a time when the face off was being dropped not like anything was really going on.

I agree 100% with Opie post above.

#39 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:53 AM

How on earth is this an example of a clean hit, he slashed/high sticked a guy in the mouth????

Suspensions are supposed to be deterrents, they are supposed to make you think before you swing your stick.

If he meant to hit him in the hand or thigh, it doesn't matter, he hit him in the face.

They don't recall penalties because the guy didn't mean to high stick another player. Think about the times a guy gets high sticked because a player is trying to move out of the zone and brings their stick up over their shoulder. Intentional or not it was careless.

What Bouchard did was not careless or an unfortunate series of events, he high sticked the guy on purpose. Right in the face, with the puck no where near them.

Shanny is sending a message, be careful with both your stick and your body, the head is a place the league is being very protective of.

I would have understood if Shanny said no suspension because he was not a repeat offender, however I also have zero problem with 2 games.

For those of you saying this shouldn't be a suspension, where do you draw the line between this and a McSorley/Simon stick to the head?
Do you put devices on the stick to measure speed of the stick during the hit?
Do you start taping the game with high speed film and have mythbusters figure out the speed?

OR...

Do you suspend for any stick swung intentionally that lands on the head or face?



Easy, cowboy. I don't call that a clean hit. After re-reading my post, I see that I wasn't very clear with that statement. What I mean to say, is that eventually clean hits will be punished for unfortunate endings. I don't think Bouchard got the high stick on him on purpose, rather it slid up the other guy's stick. He was going to give him a whack with it, but lost control. Just about every other player in the league does the same type of stickwork, just not with the hit to the face...usually. I know that a player must keep control of his stick, or suffer the consequences, but that's why there are high-sticking penalties with the extra two minutes for blood.
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#40 Opie

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:24 AM

Short Version:

Unfortunate or not the ending is what is always judged, intention behind a trip is never factored into the punishment, just the end result.

Not sure why this should be any different.

Really long winded Version:

He intentionally swung at him and hit him in the face(this was the unintended part and why he only got 2 games IMO), which is very different from intentionally hitting some one in the face. (Think Chris Simon, then I think the suspension should be 20 - 30 games for a guy like Bouchard)

However in this current culture of worrying about hitting players in the head with anything, the players who high stick in the course of the play of the game should only get the 4 min, but if you swing at a guy while uninvolved in the play (again landing on the face or head, not thigh or arm), there needs to be stiffer penalties. Just to be a deterrent.

But in this case Bouchard was not involved in the normal course of the game. Like I mentioned in my first post, if a player is trying to make a hockey play and high sticks some one, than fine 4 minutes and nothing more.

In situations like this, the league must be pro-active, Bouchard carelessly swung his stick, the end result was he hit him in the face.

I also said that if Bouchard got nothing but the 4 and a tersely worded letter, I would have been ok with it. But the fact is that Bouchard intentionally slashed a player, and that slash was in his face, stick work is a part of the game, but a slash to the face is not.

Again, the refs don't say "Oh well he was trying to lift his stick to get the puck, missed, and hit player x in the face, so no penalty on the play because it was unintentional"

The player gets a penalty based on the end result of the play always, if a high stick or trip was done in an attempt to get the puck that changes nothing. The end result was a high stick or a trip, penalty simple as that.

So when a player does purposely slash a player, you think it should be the same penalty as when a guy is trying to lift a stick and misses?

If so, fine that is your opinion in this case with the player being a very sportsman like player who has no history of these types of actions, I could agree with you.

The problem I have is where do you draw the line, what makes it a suspend-able offense?

The player, well then you have the "Colin Campbell Conundrum"© of how do you become a repeat offender if you need to be a repeat offender to be considered an offender?

Do you look at how violent or intentional the act?

Well how is that determined?

By no means am I saying my thoughts are the right thoughts, just my opinion on why I am a huge fan or what the league and Shanny are doing.

Players have lost respect for each other, and until they start displaying it across the board, I think the league needs to err on the side of caution.

I also believe if they forced players to wear softer pads, a lot of the hits you were talking about being taken out of the game would not have such severe end results.

I think the NHL needs to take a long hard look at pads, more so than re-alignment.

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