Asham KOs Beagle

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Just to play a bit of the devils advocate, I have to say when Domi use to do his gestures if I remember right, the league and the fans on avg didn't mind it and some even loved it. So I'm not sure what has really changed. Maybe it was because Beagle got hurt on it?

And just so everyone knows...I didn't like it myself.

Why? Simply because he knocked Beagle back to third grade?

Last I checked, that type of fight isn't what wins the Stanley Cup.

Doesn't really win cups but...it can have an effect on the fans and players. So maybe in a strange way it can somewhat help? =)

Edited October 14, 2011 by hillbillywingsfan

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Just to play a bit of the devils advocate, I have to say when Domi use to do his gestures if I remember right, the league and the fans on avg didn't mind it and some even loved it. So I'm not sure what has really changed. Maybe it was because Beagle got hurt on it?

And just so everyone knows...I didn't like it myself.

Doesn't really win cups but...it can have an effect on the fans and players. So maybe in a strange way it can somewhat help? =)

No doubt there, but its not as if Abdelkader or Commodore won't drop the mitts either. Probably not going to KO someone like that, but the post-fight effect is typically the same.

[toby91_ca 620]

Just to play a bit of the devils advocate, I have to say when Domi use to do his gestures if I remember right, the league and the fans on avg didn't mind it and some even loved it. So I'm not sure what has really changed. Maybe it was because Beagle got hurt on it?

And just so everyone knows...I didn't like it myself.

Doesn't really win cups but...it can have an effect on the fans and players. So maybe in a strange way it can somewhat help? =)

This type of thing can have a huge impact, I wouldn't underestimate it. I actually agreed with Melrose's comments. Although, he didn't address the gestures. On that topic, I don't have a problem with them at all, the only reason I didn't like it in this case was that the other guy got hurt.

[GongShow94 2]

Watch at 1:00 and you will see how a real man feels about what asham did but I will give him credit for apologizing

That aside great fight and I hope beagle is fine

[sleepwalker 512]

I liked it. It was an ******* move on the other guys part to fight with a visor.

Yeah, guys fighting with (or trying to hide behind) a visor on has always been a big pet peeve of mine.

Edited October 14, 2011 by sleepwalker

[redwingfan19 293]

Why? Simply because he knocked Beagle back to third grade?

Last I checked, that type of fight isn't what wins the Stanley Cup.

may not win cups but its sure as hell fun to watch and would be awesome to have a guy like that on the wings.

[esteef 2,679]

EDIT- I like Melrose's take on the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRvpgjUQC28

So what he's saying is fighting is a deterrent? Interesting concept.

esteef

[esteef 2,679]

Last I checked, that type of fight isn't what wins the Stanley Cup.

If this were a playoff series, would Beagle be able to play next game? Probably not. So it would certainly have an effect on the outcome. That's like saying "Oh that one faceoff didn't win the Stanley Cup."

esteef

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Here's to another 30 page fighting thread!

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Here's to another 30 page fighting thread!

And you adding to it=)

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Here's to another 30 page fighting thread!

I still think an official fighting/enforcer thread would work, so we don't have this s*** in every thread.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Why? Simply because he knocked Beagle back to third grade?

Last I checked, that type of fight isn't what wins the Stanley Cup.

If the Pens win the Cup this year, will you rescind that statement?

Wow. One of the most dominant fights in recent memory.

I think MacIntyre's KO of Ivanans last year was more dominant.

Simply because Ivanans has a rock hard chin that no one has ever cracked like that. It happened in game one and he missed the rest of the season. Beagle is not a great fighter and certainly not an enforcer, so this is not as big a surprise.

That gesture after the end of the fight was not Arron Asham. Good to see he recognized he made an ass out of himself, and apologized for it, cause that was over the top.

If Abdelkader did the same thing to Perry, would you still say the gesture was over the top?

[Guest Shoreline]

I agree, and I'm willing to give him a pass. I can't imagine the adrenaline after knocking out a player on a rival team, especially when you were standing up for a teammate.

EDIT- I like Melrose's take on the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRvpgjUQC28

"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Looks like I just got KO'd too.

Saw the fight video on the other hand, yeah, the move was classless, but he also tapped his stick in respect for Beagle getting back up. I don't see this as newsworthy at all other than a guy got completely knocked the f*** out.

[toby91_ca 620]

Dan Bylsma's comments from today:

On Asham’s fight:

I have seen the actions afterwards, the gestures. I think Arron is dead on when he said the emotions got the best of him. He was certainly jacked up for the situation and the fight. The gestures, he’s right. They were overboard, excessive and classless. I think immediately he felt remorse and regret. He wishes he didn’t make the gestures and he responded as such. I don’t think he’s that type of player, not that type of organization. He tried to take them back. You can’t take them back, but he showed remorse. We talked about not doing that type of thing again.

[jollymania 162]

Dan Bylsma's comments from today:

It it funny how over the top the pens get with having to keep a "classy" image, there is no doubt a reason why.

Edited October 14, 2011 by jollymania

[mjlegend 155]

Bad move by Beagle to get involved with a much more experienced fighter.

I don't know that Asham would ever have signed with the Wings; he seems comfortable trying to play with every Atlantic Division team he can get on. Plus, the Wings don't have room for him since they got Miller and Eaves. At $775,000 for one year, he makes $60,000 less than Miller and $425,000 less than healthy scratch Patrick Eaves.

It's hard to argue with the Wings' last two games (3-0 and 2-0), but it's also easy to see that Asham has the combination of skill and pugnacity that could add an element that we tend to lack at times.

Edited October 14, 2011 by mjlegend

[Guest Shoreline]

Another story within the story developing..

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378078

CAPITALS' LAICH QUESTIONS NHL'S CONCUSSION PROTOCOL

The NHL's concussion protocol isn't sitting well with Washington Capitals forward Brooks Laich - just one day after teammate Jay Beagle had to be helped off the ice following a fight with Penguins forward Arron Asham.

Laich, the Capitals' NHLPA representative, responded to suggestions that Beagle wanting to hurry back into action following the fight on Thursday night. Capitals head coach Bruce Boudreau said Beagle wanted to return but was not allowed because of the league's protocol.

"I really don't care about that awareness stuff," Laich told Stephen Whyno in a blog for The Washington Times. "To be honest I'm sick of hearing all this talk about concussions and about the quiet room. This is what we love to do. Guys love to play, they love to compete, they want to be on the ice.

"How do you take that away from somebody? We accept that there's going to be dangers when we play this game and know that every night that you get dressed. Sometimes it just feels like we're being babysat a little too much. We're grown men and we should have a little bit of say in what we want to do."

Boudreau said Beagle was not experiencing any concussion symptoms on Friday.

Capitals defenceman Mike Green, who suffered a concussion last year, agreed with Laich's stance on the league's protocol.

"You've got to make that call," he told The Washington Times. "I think at times the protocol for testing for concussions - they're just tests, they're not exactly how you feel," Green said. "That's just my opinion."

For the life of me I can't understand why the NHL has to babysit players so much about the concussions issue. While they're certainly arguing against the PC wind blowing in the direction of babysitting possible concussions, it's good that they stand up for themselves as responsible adults understanding that with physical play can come consequences.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Another story within the story developing..

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378078

For the life of me I can't understand why the NHL has to babysit players so much about the concussions issue. While they're certainly arguing against the PC wind blowing in the direction of babysitting possible concussions, it's good that they stand up for themselves as responsible adults understanding that with physical play can come consequences.

I don't think it has anything to do with being politically correct. It's not like some group is protesting outside NHL headquarters with signs "what about the players' brains??!"

We know a lot more about concussions than we ever have before, and beyond that there's been a rash of them in the league, especially since the lockout. While the policy may not be dialed in, I think the league is genuinely trying to protect its players and figure out what's going on and how they can reduce brain damage while leaving the game intact.

And from a purely business perspective, they're paying these guys to play, so they also have a financial interest in protecting them. Sidney Crosby is making a lot of money for skating no-contact drills right now. Add to that instances like in the NFL where dozens of former players are suing the league for not protecting them better from concussions during their career.

A younger player may think "I want to get back out on the ice" instead of sitting in the quiet room. But a retired player with chronic headaches, depression, and memory loss may think "why didn't the league who made so much money off of me do a better job protecting me?"

[toby91_ca 620]

Another story within the story developing..

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378078

For the life of me I can't understand why the NHL has to babysit players so much about the concussions issue. While they're certainly arguing against the PC wind blowing in the direction of babysitting possible concussions, it's good that they stand up for themselves as responsible adults understanding that with physical play can come consequences.

It's Laich's attitude that makes policies like this necessary. If you leave it up to the player, they'll just put themselves back out there when they shouldn't be out there.

[Scott Stevens 44]

It's Laich's attitude that makes policies like this necessary. If you leave it up to the player, they'll just put themselves back out there when they shouldn't be out there.

Agreed. This isn't the 1940's. There are doctors for a reason.

[Guest Shoreline]

I don't think it has anything to do with being politically correct. It's not like some group is protesting outside NHL headquarters with signs "what about the players' brains??!"

We know a lot more about concussions than we ever have before, and beyond that there's been a rash of them in the league, especially since the lockout. While the policy may not be dialed in, I think the league is genuinely trying to protect its players and figure out what's going on and how they can reduce brain damage while leaving the game intact.

And from a purely business perspective, they're paying these guys to play, so they also have a financial interest in protecting them. Sidney Crosby is making a lot of money for skating no-contact drills right now. Add to that instances like in the NFL where dozens of former players are suing the league for not protecting them better from concussions during their career.

A younger player may think "I want to get back out on the ice" instead of sitting in the quiet room. But a retired player with chronic headaches, depression, and memory loss may think "why didn't the league who made so much money off of me do a better job protecting me?"

While we've learned new stuff about concussions, concussions are nothing new at all. I was warned of what could happen if I were to play football again after sustaining one, as a teenager. I understood just fine. These are adults.

As far as the business perspective goes, remember, "business" bottomline, 1) teams are insured for players, 2) injured reserve doesn't count against the cap in such a way that if it were long term the player could be replaced presuming value is the same or less regardless of cap status.

Fighting, hitting, is part of the entertainment value of hockey, along with core parts of the sport itself.

The politically correct aspect is not criticizing the league for it's excessive nanny-like handling of concussions, because if they didn't take it as such, the media would be all over their ass. It's pretty similar to the PC flipping out over a fan tossing a banana on the ice. If the team doctor, who is there for a reason, says the player is fine, let them play. Whatever happens to the player when they're retired, they knew the risks of playing a physically violent sport, and much like those who fight for the UFC or box or even do fake rasslin' for WWE, there's little logic in blaming others -- they're paid to take those risks, not skate around in such a politically correct safe manner.

It's Laich's attitude that makes policies like this necessary. If you leave it up to the player, they'll just put themselves back out there when they shouldn't be out there.

Obviously the problem is leaving it up to a league's rules when players understand that a concussion, like any wound, might have other complications beyond that. Laich's attitude comes from the fact that playing in the NHL is certainly a risk as far as physical health goes, and guess what, if you stick your face out there to fight, or play stupidly and keep your head down admiring a pass or following the puck without paying attention, take a random puck to the head, lose one's balance and hitting head in the boards, and one of the many other ways for such an injury to happen, that is part of the inherent risk of playing the game, and one cannot ever guarantee safety in such a fashion given the physicality and speed of this sport. Players aren't that stupid as to not know the possible consequences, just because we're now learning more about the long term effects of concussions. This is getting well out of hand, and I'm glad Laich spoke out about it.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Shoreline

[Konnan511 1,736]

Asham get's a plus 5 for not beating a downed opponent, but a minus 3 for the gesture after the fight, but a plus 2 for a funny gesture.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

If Abdelkader did the same thing to Perry, would you still say the gesture was over the top?

If Abdelkader did that to Claude Lemieux, i would still say the gesture was over the top. Just embarrassing.

[GongShow94 2]

If Abdelkader did that to Claude Lemieux, i would still say the gesture was over the top. Just embarrassing.

hahaha. I could probably let it go against the turtle

[toby91_ca 620]

While we've learned new stuff about concussions, concussions are nothing new at all. I was warned of what could happen if I were to play football again after sustaining one, as a teenager. I understood just fine. These are adults.

As far as the business perspective goes, remember, "business" bottomline, 1) teams are insured for players, 2) injured reserve doesn't count against the cap in such a way that if it were long term the player could be replaced presuming value is the same or less regardless of cap status.

Fighting, hitting, is part of the entertainment value of hockey, along with core parts of the sport itself.

The politically correct aspect is not criticizing the league for it's excessive nanny-like handling of concussions, because if they didn't take it as such, the media would be all over their ass. It's pretty similar to the PC flipping out over a fan tossing a banana on the ice. If the team doctor, who is there for a reason, says the player is fine, let them play. Whatever happens to the player when they're retired, they knew the risks of playing a physically violent sport, and much like those who fight for the UFC or box or even do fake rasslin' for WWE, there's little logic in blaming others -- they're paid to take those risks, not skate around in such a politically correct safe manner.

Obviously the problem is leaving it up to a league's rules when players understand that a concussion, like any wound, might have other complications beyond that. Laich's attitude comes from the fact that playing in the NHL is certainly a risk as far as physical health goes, and guess what, if you stick your face out there to fight, or play stupidly and keep your head down admiring a pass or following the puck without paying attention, take a random puck to the head, lose one's balance and hitting head in the boards, and one of the many other ways for such an injury to happen, that is part of the inherent risk of playing the game, and one cannot ever guarantee safety in such a fashion given the physicality and speed of this sport. Players aren't that stupid as to not know the possible consequences, just because we're now learning more about the long term effects of concussions. This is getting well out of hand, and I'm glad Laich spoke out about it.

What you are talking about is the risks that players take out there and you basically have to live with them, can't avoid the issue all together.

But what Laich really doesn't like is the protocal about having to go get checked out and cleared before you go back out there if you take some sort of head shot. Beagle was knocked unconcious and had to be helped off the ice. I'm sorry, but why is there a problem with then having to go sit a few minutes and get cleared before heading back out there?

Ingoring the players own stupidity and not caring whether he has a quality of life past the age of 40, ignoring potential impact on his kids, etc, I'll just take the blunt approach. If I'm the owner of the team and I have invested millions in this player and I have him under contract (guaranteed) over the next 5 years, I don't want my investment risk to be beyond what it inherently has to be.