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How much of a steal was James Neal for Pitt?


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#21 evilzyme

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

If i'm not mistaken but, hasn't he been on Malkins line all season, especially with Malkins rip? I'm not taking anything away from Neal, but I would also say hes been gifted a few beautiful feeds. If I had the same line mates, I could park myself backdoor and also net quite a few to get my trade value up Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

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#22 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

Everyone saying it's his line mates needs to get a clue.

How about Dat's linemats why aren't they ripping it up with all their feeds huh? I think people don't like to give credit where credit is due. Yes line mates help but in the end you need to finish. Neal can finish.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 21 March 2012 - 12:10 PM.


#23 evilzyme

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:09 PM

Everyone saying it's his line mates needs to get a clue.

How about Dat's lineups why aren't they ripping it up with all their feeds huh? I think people don't like to give credit where credit is due. Yes line mates help but in the end you need to finish. Neal can finish.


Yeah.. but see people DO rip it up with pasha.. this has been a known fact. If you're a decent winger that can finish with playmaking teammates that are legitimately some of the BEST in the league, yeah you normally can produce a lot more. I don't think anyone sat here and said Neal was a horrible player, none the less able to finish. We're simply stating that when you are on a line with Malkin, and on the powerplay with Malkin AND Crosby... well come on. Now, when Neal starts going coast to coast and solo'ing his play, i'll start giving strictly him credit but his linemates deserve just as much credit for his success.

Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#24 Doc Holliday

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

Everyone saying it's his line mates needs to get a clue.

How about Dat's linemats why aren't they ripping it up with all their feeds huh? I think people don't like to give credit where credit is due. Yes line mates help but in the end you need to finish. Neal can finish.


Everyone knows James Neal is a good scoring forward. But do you think that his production would have increased to this degree if he was still in Dallas?

Scorers score more when they have great playmakers centering them.

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#25 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

Yeah.. but see people DO rip it up with pasha.. this has been a known fact. If you're a decent winger that can finish with playmaking teammates that are legitimately some of the BEST in the league, yeah you normally can produce a lot more. I don't think anyone sat here and said Neal was a horrible player, none the less able to finish. We're simply stating that when you are on a line with Malkin, and on the powerplay with Malkin AND Crosby... well come on. Now, when Neal starts going coast to coast and solo'ing his play, i'll start giving strictly him credit but his linemates deserve just as much credit for his success.


I disagree with you that Dat's linemates have ripped it up? Tell me who to be exact? Not trying to pick a fight just wondering? Dat's is going to make any player on his line better no doubt about it but he can't put the puck in the net for them.

Malkin is a great player almost the same caliber with Dat's yet he's younger. So Dat's is better than Malkin then why is Neal's numbers better? Because Neal is a better goal scorer than anyone that's been paired with Dat's minus maybe Hank but Hank really isn't a pure goal scorer now.

That's why Pittsburgh is deep right now they have a healthy and strong squad. s*** even when they weren't healthy they were winning games. Unlike us. I like to give credit where credit is due and I don't expect a lot of Wings fans to agree.

Everyone knows James Neal is a good scoring forward. But do you think that his production would have increased to this degree if he was still in Dallas?

Scorers score more when they have great playmakers centering them.


No doubt. But Neal was scoring in Dallas and look what he's doing now. And he's young. He just needs to round out his defensive game a bit I think.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 21 March 2012 - 12:22 PM.


#26 evilzyme

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:23 PM

I disagree with you that Dat's linemates have ripped it up? Tell me who to be exact? Not trying to pick a fight just wondering? Dat's is going to make any player on his line better no doubt about it but he can't put the puck in the net for them.

Malkin is a great player almost the same caliber with Dat's yet he's younger. Same thing yet Neal's numbers are better.

That's why Pittsburgh is deep right now they have a healthy and strong squad. s*** even when they weren't healthy they were winning games. Unlike us. I like to give credit where credit is due and I don't expect a lot of Wings fans to agree.



No doubt. But Neal was scoring in Dallas and look what he's doing now. And he's young. He just needs to round out his defensive game a bit I think.


The pens system relies more on a grind, they play a more physical game and they have the speed to dump and chase. They can afford to dump the puck because they know they will most likely come out of the puck battle (if there is) with it. When you have speed and players that are willing to dig deep and work the boards and corners, you can work without your main superstars and get away with games. Besides, Fluery also stood on his head and kept them in it (besides Malkin basically just destroying the league by himself).

Everyone has benefited from Pasha, but understand his game is completely and I mean completely different than Malkins. While you can consider both Malkin and Pasha a playmaker, they use different elements in their game. Pasha revolves around his slick moves to create space, Malkin... creates space with his body. He's strong on the puck (Pasha is very strong on the puck, but throw a big enough body and they'll get him off of it.) and his shot is a beaut.

I understand noone has simply "tore it up" with pasha, but many have benefited by being on his line and he has caused inflated linemate stats himself.

Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#27 toby91_ca

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

Everyone saying it's his line mates needs to get a clue.

How about Dat's linemats why aren't they ripping it up with all their feeds huh? I think people don't like to give credit where credit is due. Yes line mates help but in the end you need to finish. Neal can finish.

Ask Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy if their stats have been boosted over the past 4 games because Crosby has been inserted as their centre. Cooke has 4 goals and 6pts over those 4 games and Kennedy has 2 goals and 6pts.

It doesn't always work the same way with centres, but it depends on the player. Crosby, for example, seems to produce regardless of who he plays with. That said, I don't think he's ever really had the opportunity to play with a true sniper on his wing. I think Neal was brought in to play with Crosby eventually, but with Crosby out, looks like he's developed good chemistry with Malkin.

#28 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:29 PM

The pens system relies more on a grind, they play a more physical game and they have the speed to dump and chase. They can afford to dump the puck because they know they will most likely come out of the puck battle (if there is) with it. When you have speed and players that are willing to dig deep and work the boards and corners, you can work without your main superstars and get away with games. Besides, Fluery also stood on his head and kept them in it (besides Malkin basically just destroying the league by himself).

Everyone has benefited from Pasha, but understand his game is completely and I mean completely different than Malkins. While you can consider both Malkin and Pasha a playmaker, they use different elements in their game. Pasha revolves around his slick moves to create space, Malkin... creates space with his body. He's strong on the puck (Pasha is very strong on the puck, but throw a big enough body and they'll get him off of it.) and his shot is a beaut.

I understand noone has simply "tore it up" with pasha, but many have benefited by being on his line and he has caused inflated linemate stats himself.


I agree with you totally on both players and with what you've said. It makes me sad to be honest because imo Neal is a top six forward. Something we've lacked the last 2 seasons. Something that hasn't been addressed. Our team can't really win consistenly without Dat's in the lineup. It's frustrating because once again imo I think Pittsburgh stole Neal from Dallas. And if Crosby can stay healthy (?) and Malkin they are going to be a force to be reckoned with for a long time.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 21 March 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#29 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:36 PM

Ask Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy if their stats have been boosted over the past 4 games because Crosby has been inserted as their centre. Cooke has 4 goals and 6pts over those 4 games and Kennedy has 2 goals and 6pts.

It doesn't always work the same way with centres, but it depends on the player. Crosby, for example, seems to produce regardless of who he plays with. That said, I don't think he's ever really had the opportunity to play with a true sniper on his wing. I think Neal was brought in to play with Crosby eventually, but with Crosby out, looks like he's developed good chemistry with Malkin.


If Crosby was paired with Hudler and Holmstrom both of those players would probably put up the same numbers. Kind of off topic from the thread but Crosby is that good.

#30 toby91_ca

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:34 PM

If Crosby was paired with Hudler and Holmstrom both of those players would probably put up the same numbers. Kind of off topic from the thread but Crosby is that good.

That's what I'm saying, players benefit from who the play with.....depending on who they play with.

#31 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:17 PM

Lucky for Dallas Ryder stepped up in a big way this season, people probably don't even realize the guy has 57 points with 32 goals and is a +20. He's been one of the quieter assets to the team's success this season and seems to have filled that goal scoring void left by Neal's departure.

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#32 Superdave1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

I wanna know how Holland & crew missed this guy??? 6th round pick from the Plymouth Whalers! Right in your own backyard, what did Holland make for that pick that year?

#33 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:30 AM

I would agree that Dallas got hosed on the deal.

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