This team screams for a trade

[The Secret 304]

The Wings went with Franzen + depth vs having Hossa. That extra million that Hossa got wouldn't have allowed the Wings to sign Hudler, who was coming off a career year. We already lost Sammy they didn't want to lose more depth.

Hoss was already proven and has remained the best out of the 3 players mentioned (Sammy, Hudler and Franzen)... I just don't think you ever let a player of his caliber slip through for a lousy Million. If he was asking for something ridiculous is another story but that was not the case.

Edited November 2, 2011 by The Secret

[mmamolo 287]

The argument I just presented is based on his production, or lack there of. He isn't worth $3 million dollars a year. Like I said, anyone would match his numbers with the same amount of ice time on this team. He isn't a top-6 forward in this league and shouldn't be paid like one. Yeah he does have injury problems, and you're only naming one injury on a long list of ailments. There are countless others that you are not naming. Basically using a straw man fallacy to prove your point that you're right. Would you like to wager that he scores 30+ goals like a top-6 forward should this year? I have paypal and I don't mind a bet.

There were exactly 29 30+ goalscorers last year and Dan Cleary scored 26 goals in 68 games. He was also 35th in the league when it came to goals scored per game as he did that at a .38 rate.

29 30+ goal scorers is just about one per team. There just aren't that many of them around. Personally, I like having Zetterbger, Datsyuk, and Franzen that all have the ability to score 30+ when healthy and a guy like Cleary that can give you 20+ to supplement them.

If you think a top-6 forward has to score 30+ you're just flat out wrong. On top of that, Cleary is a guy who is used both in the top-6 and as a checker on the 3rd line. He is not a mainstay in the top-6. He's about as versatile player as there is in today's NHL.

[newfy 695]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/dreger-rene-bourque-and-tuomo-ruutu-top-early-trade-speculation-list/

Get one of these guys. Preferably Bourque.

Bourque is a natural goal scorer first and foremost, hes 6'2 215 lbs and plays fairly physical and still under 30

His cap hit isnt that bad at all at 3 million a year.

Yeah Filppulas been playing well, but hes a passer and Detroit doesnt need that. Bourque can also PK a bit as well, he seems like he would be a perfect fit honestly. And we all know Sutter is an idiot so a deal could most likely be struck.

Filppula would probably almost be enough to get him.

Or maybe something like Hudler + Tatar?

Just to add.

Does anyone else think its fishy that Nyquist was sent down, with noone recalled and no real chance to prove what he can do?

If I had to guess I would say something fishy is going on and some other kind of move is in the works

[mmamolo 287]

I like Bourque's game and think he could do really well here playing with a centre who set him up. I'm not crazy about the term as the Wings have plenty of players on longer term deals. But that being said the Wings still have plenty of cap space for the off-season and Bourque's contract wouldn't hidner their ability to make roster moves. Also, if you can get a guy who almost scores 30 for $3.33M/yr then I'd say you should inquire

[RusDRW 155]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/dreger-rene-bourque-and-tuomo-ruutu-top-early-trade-speculation-list/

Get one of these guys. Preferably Bourque.

[skipped for quoting]

Or maybe something like Hudler + Tatar?

Just to add.

Does anyone else think its fishy that Nyquist was sent down, with noone recalled and no real chance to prove what he can do?

If I had to guess I would say something fishy is going on and some other kind of move is in the works

I highly doubt our management has balls to do a trade. Any trade.

[55fan 5,133]

Does anyone else think its fishy that Nyquist was sent down, with noone recalled and no real chance to prove what he can do?

If I had to guess I would say something fishy is going on and some other kind of move is in the works

I heard that Babs is going to recall him later "when we're playing better" or however it was that he worded that. I read that as we're playing like crap and having a kid around doesn't help and Babs didn't want him to get started in his career on a bad note.

But that's just my guess.

[Nevermind 363]

How about this trade...

TO DET: Tuomo Ruutu

To CAR: Jiri Hudler, 3rd round pick in 2012

Hudler and a pick might not be enough, but it's rumored Carolina is shopping Ruutu. Both players in the deal are unrestricted at season's end.

I see this as kind of a Williams/Calder type trade. Both players are sort of struggling this year. But in Ruutu we get a much more gritty, physical type of player, who can hopefully regain his scoring touch with a change of scenario in Detroit. Carolina would be hoping for the same thing with Hudler.

Thoughts?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I admit it's a bit of a weird situation... having no cap issues and carrying one less roster player. Could just be that they want Brunnstrom to get some quality ice time in GR and play, and that Babs really doesn't want Nyquist up unless the team's doing well.

Then again, it doesn't make sense to call a guy up to inject scoring into the line-up, then send him right back down without giving him a real chance. Maybe it was a last resort before pulling the trigger on a deal. Guess we'll have to wait and see if anything transpires.

[mmamolo 287]

I admit it's a bit of a weird situation... having no cap issues and carrying one less roster player. Could just be that they want Brunnstrom to get some quality ice time in GR and play, and that Babs really doesn't want Nyquist up unless the team's doing well.

Then again, it doesn't make sense to call a guy up to inject scoring into the line-up, then send him right back down without giving him a real chance. Maybe it was a last resort before pulling the trigger on a deal. Guess we'll have to wait and see if anything transpires.

THat's possible. Or by calling up him up gives him a look which never hurts but also gives other teams the impression that's why you demoted Brunnstrom in the first place so if Holland is having (or going to have) talks with another team about a deal he doesnt look as desperate. It saves a bit of face while giving the kid a game (which they want to do anyways).

[newfy 695]

I like Bourque's game and think he could do really well here playing with a centre who set him up. I'm not crazy about the term as the Wings have plenty of players on longer term deals. But that being said the Wings still have plenty of cap space for the off-season and Bourque's contract wouldn't hidner their ability to make roster moves. Also, if you can get a guy who almost scores 30 for $3.33M/yr then I'd say you should inquire

The term could also help get him cheaper, the thing about him is hes an actual goal scorer. Franzen is a goal scorer as well but other than that the wings have no guys to pull the trigger.

3 million a year isnt too bad at all, for a guy who hasnt played at all with a real centerman and is scoring 30 goals a season.

Stick him with Datsyuk and watch the goals pile up

I heard that Babs is going to recall him later "when we're playing better" or however it was that he worded that. I read that as we're playing like crap and having a kid around doesn't help and Babs didn't want him to get started in his career on a bad note.

But that's just my guess.

This is also possible but I still am leaning more towards some kind of deal for a scorer is in the works.

They probaly dont want to take a rookie and put so much pressure on him too score in the top 6 on what should be a contending team, if they werent looking to make a deal you would tihnk they wuold give him one more game against a team that isnt that great in calgary to see what he can do.

Also of note, there were Calgary scouts at the wings game last night. Yeah theyre playing soon so that probably has a lot to do with it but still there could be some substance

[dallas27 7]

Why would Emmerton be next, and who's replacing him? Why not Miller or Eaves? Eaves has sat in the press box for four games, Miller for two, and Emmerton for two. Emmerton is four years younger than the others, and all of them are capable PKers. Emmerton is the only center of the three.

The Red Wings have plenty of players that can play center. I think Eaves has more value than Emmerton, Eaves is proven. But Miller would be the more logical choice to let go. I'm not sure if anyone would be needed to waived but Tatar would be the next to come up. He should have been called up before Nyquist. I wish I knew why they are waiting so long to call Tatar up.

Couldn't. It's "I couldn't care less" because "I could care less" means that you do care. Which is the complete opposite of what you are saying. Proper spelling and grammar are our friends. You should become acquainted with them if you desire to be taken seriously.

Haha, playing the grammEr nazi card. Mi grammEr r spot on 99% of teh time. Butt kool s*** men, u look liek suc a hard ass jeanus! I bet you're e-peen r the size of the hedgehogs! I riddled that sentence with mistakes just for you qtee.

Trade for Doan and Parise? And what are we giving up, Hudler/Kindl/1st to New Jersey and to Phoenix at the same time?

I've actually started thinking more on the lines of Rick Nash but I doubt if Columbus would ever trade within the division, or the Red Wings for that matter. Seeing as Doan and Parise are going to be UFAs I think they can be had for a cheaper price than what it would normally be. Since New Jersey has made it clear they are moving on with Kovy and not Parise I'm thinking you aren't going to have to give up as much as you think because the Devils would be happy with something for Parise. Now that something is still going to be quite a bit because he's a borderline franchise player but I think you'd be surprised. I like Franzen + Tatar for Parise. I'm not entirely sure what Phoenix needs so I can't comment on who I'd send over there. I imagine it wouldn't have to be a lot for an aging 35 year old who's body isn't going to hold up for too many more seasons the way he plays.

I like the Sergei Samsonov idea. I've liked the idea of Sergei Samsonov for years. But Ken Holland doesn't. Sergei Samsonov contacted the Wings about trying out, and the Wings said no thanks.

I don't see why they wouldn't but I guess that's why they get paid the big bucks. Guy looks like he is in great shape though. When I asked him if any teams contacted him he kind of smirked when I said I don't know why nobody would. It was pretty funny, kind of like he knows he can still play in the NHL and be effective. But as I said, I know he's far removed from his 70 point self, and I wouldn't expect that at all, but I still think he can offer some upside to the Wings in terms of scoring. I see him as a smaller, quicker Danny Cleary.

No matter how the Red Wings do it, they need something fresh. Something different. Anything. Whether that's internal through call-ups or through a trade, so be it. Two games has turned to five and it's going to turn into ten.

Ya dig, Inglewood Jack?

Why are you sticking up for that moron to begin with? Guy has his head so far up his own ass. Last I knew he lived in San Francisco, which is very fitting, for many reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6hlUF4h-ZY

Edited November 2, 2011 by dallas27

[T.Low 1,011]

We have one of the most capable rosters in the whole league that can deliver in each and every game and all we get is clear lack of effort. I'm getting tired of all these after game quotes "We though we were prepared", "We just got beat, 7-1, so to start like that tonight, to me, is lack of preparation," "It was a disappointing effort. The coaching staff didn't do a good enough job; the players didn't do a good enough job."

We've heard such things so many times during the last two/three years. Where are the consequences? I think the real reason is that everyone on the roster feel too safe. They known that no matter how bad they play they'll never be traded. Starting from 4th line plug Miller to "superstar" Zetterberg. When intensity of the game is rather low we often win on a pure skill, when it gets higher like in the last two games we simply give up. To me this is pure lack of effort. If Bertuzzi or Zetterberg don't like to compete in games like this scratch them and call up Nyquist or Tatar.

PS For those saying that it is only two games (there are always a plenty of such guys) I recommend to watch some other teams. No team in this league gives up games so easily.

12 pages and plenty of trade ideas, 5 game skid, looks more like a Detroit Yacht Club than an NHL hockey club, not sure why this OP still has a neg 21(?). In the first ten minutes of the 2-1 OTL to Minni they showed how dominant they can be when they want to be.

Is it time yet to get someone in here who is hungry and will go all out and score some goals?

[Guest Shoreline]

Detroit Red Wings = new Toronto Maple Leafs:( trade Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Bertuzzi, Abdelkader, Cleary

The difference is the Wings don't actually go after pretty much any trade/FA bait imaginable, unlike the Leafs.

And dallas27, I'm not sure if you're referring to me, but if you are (probably should use names instead of this girly passive aggressive method as I tend to skip over your posts due to them being full of pointless fluff), I find it pretty hilarious how easily you get mad over pixel debates. Lay off the huffing OxiClean there, Billy Mays, and maybe you'll find yourself throwing less pixel temper tantrums.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Shoreline

[newfy 695]

12 pages and plenty of trade ideas, 5 game skid, looks more like a Detroit Yacht Club than an NHL hockey club, not sure why this OP still has a neg 21(?). In the first ten minutes of the 2-1 OTL to Minni they showed how dominant they can be when they want to be.

Is it time yet to get someone in here who is hungry and will go all out and score some goals?

Exactly.

Time to get a legit player who is still hungry to win and prove themselves.

There arent a tonne of guys with anything left to prove on this team and I think thats a big part of it, our top guys are playing well.

Datsyuk and Lidstrom ahve been great, Franzen decent and Zetterberg just cant buy a goal. After that though there shouldnt be much job security.

Guys like Hudler, Filppula, Miller etc should not have job security in a league like this and the wings should be looking to upgrade.

A goal scorer under 30 would be good. Parise perfect, Bourque very solid, Ruutu decent.

These guys who are kind of part of the core can be moved and upgraded, add some size and scoring by acquiring a young sniper and this team will probably be a contender again

[The Secret 304]

Exactly.

Time to get a legit player who is still hungry to win and prove themselves.

There arent a tonne of guys with anything left to prove on this team and I think thats a big part of it, our top guys are playing well.

Datsyuk and Lidstrom ahve been great, Franzen decent and Zetterberg just cant buy a goal. After that though there shouldnt be much job security.

Guys like Hudler, Filppula, Miller etc should not have job security in a league like this and the wings should be looking to upgrade.

A goal scorer under 30 would be good. Parise perfect, Bourque very solid, Ruutu decent.

These guys who are kind of part of the core can be moved and upgraded, add some size and scoring by acquiring a young sniper and this team will probably be a contender again

What do you think of my Hudler for Penner idea?

[newfy 695]

What do you think of my Hudler for Penner idea?

Honestly couldnt hurt.

Theyre both called lazy and everything, but at least when Penners game is on hes a 6'4 power forward.

Personally I wouldnt want him though and would rather save Hudler to use as a chip in a trade for someone a bit better.

[dallas27 7]

The difference is the Wings don't actually go after pretty much any trade/FA bait imaginable, unlike the Leafs.

And dallas27, I'm not sure if you're referring to me, but if you are (probably should use names instead of this girly passive aggressive method as I tend to skip over your posts due to them being full of pointless fluff), I find it pretty hilarious how easily you get mad over pixel debates. Lay off the huffing OxiClean there, Billy Mays, and maybe you'll find yourself throwing less pixel temper tantrums.

And saying

In 2007-08 the Red Wings' first 7 games were 4-2-1 (9 pts) -- pretty sure we remember how that season ended.

isn't pointless fluff? You can apply that to every single season in which they don't start well and it wouldn't matter. Because, well, what happened in 2007-08 doesn't matter. This just in: It's 2087-2088 and the Wings are off to a dreadful, slow start but are poised to win the Stanley Cup because they did in 2007-08.

All you have been able to do is make, what you think, funny little quips towards me without actually responding to anything I say.

You can still try "to make me eat my words." Again, those words were the past doesn't matter, especially 5 years ago, but if history does matter then the Red Wings will lose in the playoffs, probably to San Jose, because that's what's happened in the past two years. Have at it. You won't though. Instead of admitting defeat you'll find some smart ass comment to say to me.

You are aware that when you were talking with Eva about Samsonov it was me that suggested it first, right? Thought all I had to say was "pointless fluff." In case you skipped over it I said that he comes into my work quite a bit and no teams are after him. He won't be the 70 point player he was but I think he can be a smaller, quicker Danny Cleary and help spark the offense.

How's Ford doing again? That's another topic you will yet avoid and rather try to blast me because you know you are wrong, you just don't know how to deal with it. Instead, the most you'll come up with is something along the lines of "stop playing in the snow piles Whitney har har har har har har."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932011_Toyota_vehicle_recalls

Sit down and shut up

Edited November 3, 2011 by dallas27

[Guest Shoreline]

And saying isn't pointless fluff? You can apply that to every single season in which they don't start well and it wouldn't matter. Because, well, what happened in 2007-08 doesn't matter. This just in: It's 2087-2088 and the Wings are off to a dreadful, slow start but are poised to win the Stanley Cup because they did in 2007-08.

Duh, maybe you overlooked the fact that the record was stated because the OP pointed to our record as an indicator that trades need to be made. Nice oversight there. Self owned? It's a valid comparison if someone is talking about a team's record this season after 7 games that the comparison be made to a Cup winning season after 7 games which was worse than this. I don't expect you to understand this comparison though, just another nonsensical post full of 75% fluff, 20% personal attack, and 5% relevant argument that still purposely obfuscates something out of some personal ex-girlfriend attitude.

All you have been able to do is make, what you think, funny little quips towards me without actually responding to anything I say.

You can still try "to make me eat my words." Again, those words were the past doesn't matter, especially 5 years ago, but if history does matter then the Red Wings will lose in the playoffs, probably to San Jose, because that's what's happened in the past two years. Have at it. You won't though. Instead of admitting defeat you'll find some smart ass comment to say to me.

You are aware that when you were talking with Eva about Samsonov it was me that suggested it first, right? Thought all I had to say was "pointless fluff." In case you skipped over it I said that he comes into my work quite a bit and no teams are after him. He won't be the 70 point player he was but I think he can be a smaller, quicker Danny Cleary and help spark the offense.

^- this, all fluff, and from my last post.. "I tend to skip over your posts due to them being full of pointless fluff".

Followed by: "I find it pretty hilarious how easily you get mad over pixel debates. Lay off the huffing OxiClean there, Billy Mays, and maybe you'll find yourself throwing less pixel temper tantrums."

How's Ford doing again? That's another topic you will yet avoid and rather try to blast me because you know you are wrong, you just don't know how to deal with it. Instead, the most you'll come up with is something along the lines of "stop playing in the snow piles Whitney har har har har har har."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932011_Toyota_vehicle_recalls

Sit down and shut up

If you want to get into a debate about Ford bailouts (wasn't this like 3 years ago?) again, I'd be more than willing in another topic, but in typical douche27 fashion, you ignored the fact that one of the biggest reasons I didn't want any company to get bailout money is that government shouldn't be in the business of saving failing businesses and should stay out, much like the issue of the Phoenix Coyotes. I notice you conveniently ignored that s***, so take your "sit down and shut up" and sit down and spin on it, OxiClean boy.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Shoreline

[Dominator2005 558]

I would like to see Holland trading for that kid Franson, it seems like he is on the market...

Trading Hudler is possible at this point trading Hudler+pick for Evander Kane (rumours that he would like to leave Jets)... It sounds crazy but Holland could do it. If Burke can trade junk for Lombardi and Franson then I don't see why Holland can't abuse another GM...

Exactly.

Time to get a legit player who is still hungry to win and prove themselves.

There arent a tonne of guys with anything left to prove on this team and I think thats a big part of it, our top guys are playing well.

Datsyuk and Lidstrom ahve been great, Franzen decent and Zetterberg just cant buy a goal. After that though there shouldnt be much job security.

Guys like Hudler, Filppula, Miller etc should not have job security in a league like this and the wings should be looking to upgrade.

A goal scorer under 30 would be good. Parise perfect, Bourque very solid, Ruutu decent.

These guys who are kind of part of the core can be moved and upgraded, add some size and scoring by acquiring a young sniper and this team will probably be a contender again

Parise - I think we will have to wait next year for him.

Plenty rumours around Bourque so I think that he will be traded very soon.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

IMO Franzen is the only player that would yield a good-enough return. Franzen for Parise and a first or second would be good. I love Mule, but I'm worried about his contract length. Maybe throw one of Eaves, Emmerton, etc in for Clarkson as well.

IMO no trade is needed, but if a trade is made I'd like it to be a big move.

[Dominator2005 558]

According to "CBC.ca : Elliot Friedman" Morrow COULD BE available.

http://www.toutsurlehockey.com/section/hockey/10477/rumeurs/de/transactions/tslh/dallas%20stars/2011-11-01/brenden-morrow-pourrait-il-quitter-dallas/

IMO Franzen is the only player that would yield a good-enough return. Franzen for Parise and a first or second would be good. I love Mule, but I'm worried about his contract length. Maybe throw one of Eaves, Emmerton, etc in for Clarkson as well.

IMO no trade is needed, but if a trade is made I'd like it to be a big move.

I agree - 3rd/4th liners will not bring much at this point... IF a trade is to be made go for big trade.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

According to "CBC.ca : Elliot Friedman" Morrow COULD BE available.

http://www.toutsurlehockey.com/section/hockey/10477/rumeurs/de/transactions/tslh/dallas%20stars/2011-11-01/brenden-morrow-pourrait-il-quitter-dallas/

I agree - 3rd/4th liners will not bring much at this point... IF a trade is to be made go for big trade.

Isn't Dallas playing well this season?

Why would they trade Morrow?

Edited November 3, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[newfy 695]

Isn't Dallas playing well this season?

Why would they trade Morrow?

Theyve had a good start because Lehtonen is playing like god in net but Morrow would be seriously what Detriots top lines have been lacking.

Doan, Morrow and Bourque could all be available and likely wouldnt take us mortgaging the future to attain. They all also play with and have solid size, which this teams top 6 could desperately use.

Parise is the best option but I think youre looking at Filppula, Tatar or Kindl and a first to get those talks started. I would make the trade though

[NBCnothingbutcrosby 159]

There were exactly 29 30+ goalscorers last year and Dan Cleary scored 26 goals in 68 games. He was also 35th in the league when it came to goals scored per game as he did that at a .38 rate.

29 30+ goal scorers is just about one per team. There just aren't that many of them around. Personally, I like having Zetterbger, Datsyuk, and Franzen that all have the ability to score 30+ when healthy and a guy like Cleary that can give you 20+ to supplement them.

If you think a top-6 forward has to score 30+ you're just flat out wrong. On top of that, Cleary is a guy who is used both in the top-6 and as a checker on the 3rd line. He is not a mainstay in the top-6. He's about as versatile player as there is in today's NHL.

if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

[Guest Crymson]

if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

You again. I threw some logic at you and you ignored me yet again, choosing instead to scamper off and return to nonsensically scream again at a different time. What's your deal?