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This team screams for a trade


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#61 stinky fish taco

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:40 PM

we can't win the Cup with this roster.

.

Helm is a perennial Selke candidate

LOL

#62 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:43 PM

.


....And your point is?

I said that before the season. This isn't the same team from 2008. It's more like the same team from 2010 and 2011. You know, the one that lost to the Sharks in the 2nd round.
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#63 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:48 PM

Can we pursue Iginla at the trade deadline?

There's always rumblings in Calgary that he may be traded at the deadline.


Feaster probably won't trade him, even though he should. But man, what a pick up Jarome would be. It'd be one of those career rejuvenating moves, and if we moved Hudler/Ericsson out in the deal (and no before the neg storm starts, not because they suck but because of salary) then we'd have room for him. I really can't see it happening but I'd love to rub it in all of the smug flames fans I know faces that there franchise player was the key to my team winning a Stanley Cup. :lol:

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#64 13dangledangle

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:56 PM

....And your point is?

I said that before the season. This isn't the same team from 2008. It's more like the same team from 2010 and 2011. You know, the one that lost to the Sharks in the 2nd round.



I can't get my brain around not winning the cup this year. I think that every year we are going to win, but some days in the dead off****** winter its honestly the only damn reason I get up at all, so to chalk it up as loss from the get go I can not do...The famous saying of "just get in and anything can happen" is that false? Because when I look at this roster I see a group of players that if they play the way they need to play to win then they CAN. So they WILL...my 2 cents
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#65 Z and D for the C

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:05 PM

....And your point is?


He agrees with you. I don't. I don't think we're favorites, but this team is more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup. We have great depth, our top 6 all has the potential to do well in the playoffs and hopefully our defense will be well improved. Obviously on paper it's worse this year but hopefully with a new defensive coach we will be able to shut teams down. The thing I'm most worried about, frankly, is how effective Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be. Strange as it is.

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#66 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:18 PM

I can't get my brain around not winning the cup this year. I think that every year we are going to win, but some days in the dead off****** winter its honestly the only damn reason I get up at all, so to chalk it up as loss from the get go I can not do...The famous saying of "just get in and anything can happen" is that false? Because when I look at this roster I see a group of players that if they play the way they need to play to win then they CAN. So they WILL...my 2 cents


You're right in one sense. When you get into the playoffs, anything can happen.

However, I hope Holland realizes (unlike the homers here) that our last several playoff losses weren't flukes. This team has obviously been lacking something the last several playoff runs.

Feaster probably won't trade him, even though he should. But man, what a pick up Jarome would be. It'd be one of those career rejuvenating moves, and if we moved Hudler/Ericsson out in the deal (and no before the neg storm starts, not because they suck but because of salary) then we'd have room for him. I really can't see it happening but I'd love to rub it in all of the smug flames fans I know faces that there franchise player was the key to my team winning a Stanley Cup. :lol:


Not to mention, how hungry he'd be to win a Cup. And that right handed one-timer we've wanted since Hull and Shanahan left.

I hate Iginla, but am interested in the idea of acquiring him.
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#67 Crymson

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:28 PM

He agrees with you. I don't. I don't think we're favorites, but this team is more than capable of winning a Stanley Cup. We have great depth, our top 6 all has the potential to do well in the playoffs and hopefully our defense will be well improved. Obviously on paper it's worse this year but hopefully with a new defensive coach we will be able to shut teams down. The thing I'm most worried about, frankly, is how effective Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be. Strange as it is.


What you're seeing from GMR is called defensive pessimism, though he's sure to falsely label it as 'realism.' He's also apparently forgotten the giant uproar during the 2007 offseason, during which the Wings lost Calder and Bertuzzi and added only Drake. But hey, some people would rather wuss out than risk disappointment.

Edited by Crymson, 26 October 2011 - 10:31 PM.


#68 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:30 PM

What you're seeing from GMR is called defensive pessimism, though he's sure to falsely label it as 'realism.'


Crymson, I don't think we're going to win the Cup this year.
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#69 evil204

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:24 PM

I don't believe "uninspired" play for a period here and there allows for 5 goals in total for the first 4 games.

The typical remnants of the type of uninspired hockey you speak of, that does in fact sometimes plague the Red Wings, is the team winning a 1 goal game when they were up far more than that, or off to a typical slow start, getting behind, and coming back to win by a goal or two, or coming one goal short. The first 5 games were decisive victories played with a stifling defence and playing for a full 60+ minute game. The last two games were very uncharacteristic of the Red Wings, but that s*** happens to teams during the regular season as they're not robots. Maybe you confused the lethargic Wings with the lethargic crowds in the lower bowl at the Joe? I'm not sure but you certainly aren't shooting anywhere near on target with your assertion of how the Wings played the first 5 games.


Let's see...I believe we only showed up in the 2nd period against Ottawa. I don't really remember how we played against Colorado but I recall Conklin having to make some huge saves in that game. We looked pretty sluggish and out of sync against Vancouver, and didn't start skating until the 2nd period, although the defense was solid. I thought they had a lot of energy in the Wild game. Then they beat Columbus... I guess you could argue they played smart defensively even when they weren't skating - that's not hard to do against crappy teams that can't dictate the pace of the game, make plays, and force turnovers. I saw the same crap from the Wings in the two losses as I did in the five victories - they just weren't able to turn it around in the 2nd or 3rd period against better and/or hungrier teams.

#70 Doc Holliday

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:29 PM

I do think moves need to be made at some point this season.

In my opinion, we can't win the Cup with this roster. We've tried two seasons in a row, and couldn't get past the 2nd round. Sometimes, you have to try something different, and not keep banging your head against a brick wall in aimless futility.

And I'm not saying this because we've lost two games in a row. I said before the season that some kind of changes would have to be made at the deadline. We'll have to wait till then.

We're still a good team and will likely win the division, but there's no reason to expect a Cup run with this roster. We've learned as much in recent years.


THIS is a legitimate argument.

THIS is what fosters civilized discussion (usually) regarding the Wings and their potential.

THIS is what the OP should have went with. And no, Harold. The title was perfectly appropriate for the content he put into his post. Looking for accountability after two losses, and acting like there aren't 29 teams who have terrible games or stretches.

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#71 Crymson

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:40 PM

THIS is a legitimate argument.

THIS is what fosters civilized discussion (usually) regarding the Wings and their potential.

THIS is what the OP should have went with. And no, Harold. The title was perfectly appropriate for the content he put into his post. Looking for accountability after two losses, and acting like there aren't 29 teams who have terrible games or stretches.


Nonsense. Panic is always most conducive to sensible discussion.

#72 Shoreline

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:00 AM

Let's see...I believe we only showed up in the 2nd period against Ottawa. I don't really remember how we played against Colorado but I recall Conklin having to make some huge saves in that game. We looked pretty sluggish and out of sync against Vancouver, and didn't start skating until the 2nd period, although the defense was solid. I thought they had a lot of energy in the Wild game. Then they beat Columbus... I guess you could argue they played smart defensively even when they weren't skating - that's not hard to do against crappy teams that can't dictate the pace of the game, make plays, and force turnovers. I saw the same crap from the Wings in the two losses as I did in the five victories - they just weren't able to turn it around in the 2nd or 3rd period against better and/or hungrier teams.

The Wings shut Colorado out, the same Colorado that's above them in the standings now.

I don't need to downplay how badly the Wings played in the last two games, it's just pretty interesting how the Wings evidently took the piss in the first five which they seriously dominated opponents and made it look easy. It's pretty funny how the Wings can dominate other teams yet certain fans have a one or two game memory the second they start to lose.

Edited by Shoreline, 27 October 2011 - 12:02 AM.


#73 evil204

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:26 AM

The Wings shut Colorado out, the same Colorado that's above them in the standings now.

I don't need to downplay how badly the Wings played in the last two games, it's just pretty interesting how the Wings evidently took the piss in the first five which they seriously dominated opponents and made it look easy. It's pretty funny how the Wings can dominate other teams yet certain fans have a one or two game memory the second they start to lose.


Would you say they skated for the majority of the time in the games they won? Do you think their efforts against Ottawa, Vancouver, Colorado, and Columbus (the first time) are good enough to win against SJ or the Caps? In some of those games...a bounce or two the other way and we lose.

I don't care that they lost the last two games. I know they are going to take nights off and, once in a while, get totally embarrassed. I just think they didn't play all that well when they were winning.

#74 Shoreline

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:13 AM

Would you say they skated for the majority of the time in the games they won? Do you think their efforts against Ottawa, Vancouver, Colorado, and Columbus (the first time) are good enough to win against SJ or the Caps? In some of those games...a bounce or two the other way and we lose.

I don't care that they lost the last two games. I know they are going to take nights off and, once in a while, get totally embarrassed. I just think they didn't play all that well when they were winning.

Uh yeah, they did skate for a "majority of the time" in the games they won, especially in the shutouts. Can't exactly coast through a shutout victory while taking a nap on the ice -- this is a professional league, and there's significantly more parity, the latter of which was pretty obvious when the Wings took the Jackets lightly the other night and paid for it.

I don't blame people for being irritated at the two losses, I don't think any reasonable fan would be pleased with them. However, it's taking it too far to completely discredit the Red Wings with their well earned victories (funny how quickly one discredits their efforts and accomplishments while emphasizing and embellishing their shortcomings), even further more, calling to blow the team up after a whopping 2 losses. Some of us, not being new to the forum, are well versed in dealing with this type of knee-jerk. It happens every season when the Red Wings face some sort of adversity where some niche of fans wants to blow the team up (regardless of how early or late in the season) or declare the season/playoffs/cup contention over for whatever ass backwards negative nancy reason they can come up with. Take a fricken chill pill.

Edited by Shoreline, 27 October 2011 - 02:14 AM.


#75 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:11 AM

Coming soon to an arena near you...

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#76 RusDRW

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:37 AM

The reaction is pretty predictable... We are 5-2, no reason for panic, etc. I'm not satisfied with the quality of hockey not with the current record. If this team is not going to change somehow (via trades or changing mentality) during the year we will see yet another 2nd round exist. Red Wings have all the skill in the world. What the current roster lacks is some determination and willingness to win. We saw it twice in a row with San Jose when we simply forgot to start competing until it was 0-3. And yes uninspired play translates to the play-offs.
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#77 Crymson

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:47 AM

The reaction is pretty predictable... We are 5-2, no reason for panic, etc. I'm not satisfied with the quality of hockey not with the current record. If this team is not going to change somehow (via trades or changing mentality) during the year we will see yet another 2nd round exist. Red Wings have all the skill in the world. What the current roster lacks is some determination and willingness to win. We saw it twice in a row with San Jose when we simply forgot to start competing until it was 0-3. And yes uninspired play translates to the play-offs.


Translation: "The team didn't show effort to my satisfaction, so drastic steps need to be taken. I will support this theory by making arbitrary claims."

Aside from the part about the Red Wings having a lot of skill, I disagree with everything you've said here.

Edited by Crymson, 27 October 2011 - 05:14 AM.


#78 Shoreline

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:17 AM

The reaction is pretty predictable... We are 5-2, no reason for panic, etc. I'm not satisfied with the quality of hockey not with the current record. If this team is not going to change somehow (via trades or changing mentality) during the year we will see yet another 2nd round exist. Red Wings have all the skill in the world. What the current roster lacks is some determination and willingness to win. We saw it twice in a row with San Jose when we simply forgot to start competing until it was 0-3. And yes uninspired play translates to the play-offs.

Yes, it's pretty predictable, but not our reaction.. your post.

If it wasn't the record you were dissatisfied with why did you wait until the 2nd loss to post this topic just following the losing game in typical rage fashion instead of after the 5th win in a row hmm? ;)

I don't know who you're trying to convince here but your post follows a very specific and regularly seen protocol of bitching after a loss and overreacting.

#79 Casey

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:32 AM

WHAT youth injection? Where would it go?

Let's look at the squad, shall we?

Under 25: Abdelkader, Helm, Emmerton, Mursak, Kindl.
From 25-30: Brunnstrom, Eaves, Filppula, Hudler, Miller, Ericsson, Kronwall, Howard.
From 31-35: Cleary, Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, Commodore, Stuart, Conklin.
From 36-40: Bertuzzi, Holmstrom.
Over 40: Lidstrom.

Who are you dropping to get a "Youth injection"? 13 of the 23 guys on the roster are 30 or younger. The "older" guys include possibly the best 1-2 punch in the game, and 2 damn solid power forwards in Cleary and Franzen. Bertuzzi is just above this at 36, and still was over half a point per game last year. Holmstrom's slowing down, sure, but he's fitting well on the lower lines. The only over-40 guy is Lidstrom.

Exactly where are you putting "young" guys? More than half the team is already there. Yeah, they're the oldest team in the league by average age, but having a 41 year old Lidstrom and a 38 year old Holmstrom pulls up the average a long way.
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#80 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:36 AM

Uh yeah, they did skate for a "majority of the time" in the games they won, especially in the shutouts. Can't exactly coast through a shutout victory while taking a nap on the ice -- this is a professional league, and there's significantly more parity, the latter of which was pretty obvious when the Wings took the Jackets lightly the other night and paid for it.

I don't blame people for being irritated at the two losses, I don't think any reasonable fan would be pleased with them. However, it's taking it too far to completely discredit the Red Wings with their well earned victories (funny how quickly one discredits their efforts and accomplishments while emphasizing and embellishing their shortcomings), even further more, calling to blow the team up after a whopping 2 losses. Some of us, not being new to the forum, are well versed in dealing with this type of knee-jerk. It happens every season when the Red Wings face some sort of adversity where some niche of fans wants to blow the team up (regardless of how early or late in the season) or declare the season/playoffs/cup contention over for whatever ass backwards negative nancy reason they can come up with. Take a fricken chill pill.

Pretty much it.

I'm not saying that everybody should write a 3-page essay on how they should post things in here, sometimes we post or say things based primarily on emotion. I get that. But if the OP suggested that perhaps we should make a trade sometime down the road to better this team without giving the perception that this team is unmotivated or in deep trouble, then he wouldn't have gotten a lot of the backlash he did.

And to jump on the majority who thinks he overreacted aggravates me just as much (not because I am one of them), how did you expect the people to react when the original poster gave such a tone?

I used to be one that, whenever the Wings had some adversity, would jump down the throats of people who panicked by telling them more/less like a smart allec to can it and take a chill pill. I'd like to think as I've been on here, I've toned that down and accepted that people will naturally express frustration, some just louder than others unfortunately. I'll often try to let it be. But if I think it's still way out in left field, I'll probably still respond to it.

Also like the majority, I'm not thrilled with these two losses in a row, but this kind of thing happens to every single team, good and bad, in such a long season. And more than once. I'm not saying it is right or acceptable, but it is all but impossible to avoid. I get that we have high standards in here for the Wings, but there's got to be some more perspective in that. Not to realize that other teams stink and we are fortunate, just that everybody good/bad is going to lose and have some adversity sometimes.

Wanting to make drastic changes to the roster after just one, and the first, two-game losing streak of a season is just insane. Maybe that wasn't what the original poster wanted to perceive, but to a lot of people, that's what it was. If this was a more frequent thing, then I'd probably open up to the concern a bit. But thankfully, it rarely is an issue when it comes to the Red Wings to where it severely threatens them.

Are these two games disappointing? Of course. But if we get this overreaction from people in here every single time we have consecutive losses but are still doing fairly good overall (like we usually do), it's going to be harder to even just visit this section of the site.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 27 October 2011 - 08:37 AM.






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