333 replies to this topic

[Din758]

So what you're saying is your first post was incorrect and what you meant to say was they lost 4 games, 2 in OT, and have played 11 games. I didn't look it up b/c you presented me with all I needed when you stated they had 2 losses in 11 games...OT loss is still a loss. I don't care if analysts act like it's not.

An OT loss is not a loss. Its not a win, but not a loss. Any team will take the 1pt over nothing, and making it to OT pretty much means it was an even game so its nothing to freak out about. This is salary cap hockey.

Any who, I came here to post that there have been rumors of trading Flip to philly. I dont think they will offer what we would need to let him go, but well see. Just curious to see everyones thoughts.

[evil204]

Alright look. Somebody with the Wings said something to this effect once and I thought it really encapsulated this issue. The style we play makes us look dominant when we win but makes it look like we're not "competing" hard enough when we lose. Because we're not running around hitting everybody doesn't mean we're not trying. We play skilled, positional hockey. That means when guys have lazy or bad passing days, we look horrible and like we're not putting in enough effort. I've read quotes from Holland about sticking to the philosophy and game that has lead to our success, even when we get beat by a team that plays another one (Anaheim '07).

That said, Conklin and our overall defensive play in the last two games look pretty awful to me. I am curious to see if Commodore brings a new element with a little energy and grit when he plays.

This is true...but still, they always seem to start slow in the 1st period, getting beat to loose pucks, and really heat up in the 2nd or 3rd. I'm pretty sure 3-4 years ago their effort throughout the game was more consistent. Sure, they took games off, but they had long stretches of games in the regular season where they showed up for 60 minutes every time.

Also, I think we would benefit from getting a few guys who play a more persistent game (think Helm, Cleary), rather than "smart positional hockey." Think Datsyuk vs Ovechkin. Datsyuk hangs around, waiting for the right time, picking his spots. Ovechkin races all over the place, hitting people and chasing pucks. This doesn't mean that Ovechkin is more effective, but players like Ovie can energize the team in a way that Pavel can't.

[T.Low]

Your analysis is flawed. You accuse Franzen of being streaky for not always scoring many goals in a season, yet you ignore the fact that he was a grinder until 2008. In any event, I do not mean exactly 30+. 29 goals. 27 goals. That's not bad. It's what you'd expect from a $4m player, though he was actually paid less than $1m in each of two of those seasons. Also, he's rightfully known as one of the best playoff performers of the post-lockout era.

You whine about him when fans of every other team would love to have him. This is typical of fans who can't appreciate what they have.

Oh, and I don't doubt that Holland would pull the trigger in a second on a trade of Ericsson and Hudler for Iginla. But Calgary would not in a million years do that, so your point is null.

Actually, I'm the one that said he was drafted as a checker, and now has developed into a skilled scorer , albeit somewhat of a streaky one at that (5 goals one game, then a huge unproductive drought afterwards). I didn't ignore that fact; that fact makes my point that he has not been the big natural goal scorer, not used to being the guy that is looked upon to score the goals every game. I'm not whining about the guy, I'm just stating facts that he is one example that the team doesn't have a natural scorer to rely on. Maybe this is the year he est

I'll say it again; For low draft picks, we have an unbelievable team. That doesn't change the fact that we have no honest to goodness natural scorer. Mathmatically, we'd be better off spending the same amount of money on a better natural scorer and a youngster than asking Franzen and Hudler to carry the mail. If you read into that, that I don't like Franzen, well, that is fine except that it's wrong.

Our big playoff performer is a checker that no one ever heard of until he developed into a suprise playoff performer. He's awesome for who he is, but he is not a big natural scorer...yet anyway. Where do you get the idea that I don't appreciate the Red Wings roster? I can't state an observed fact for discussion's sake?

If you didn't mean 30, why did you say 30? If a guys scores 27 goals, he does not make the list of guys that scored 30 goals. Again, that's not my fault, it's just fact.

Edited by T.Low, 28 October 2011 - 06:18 PM.

[rrasco]

An OT loss is not a loss. Its not a win, but not a loss. Any team will take the 1pt over nothing, and making it to OT pretty much means it was an even game so its nothing to freak out about. This is salary cap hockey.

Any who, I came here to post that there have been rumors of trading Flip to philly. I dont think they will offer what we would need to let him go, but well see. Just curious to see everyones thoughts.

If it wasn't a loss, they wouldn't call it an "OT loss". I realize it's not a regulation loss, but it's still a loss. If you didn't win the game, then you lost the game. There are no more ties in hockey. Going back to the original comment...it was said they played lost 2 out of 11 games, that's implying they won 9.

On that note, I sure hope we don't trade Flip. Was there anyone mentioned in return?

Edited by rrasco, 28 October 2011 - 12:39 PM.

[Din758]

If it wasn't a loss, they wouldn't call it an "OT loss". I realize it's not a regulation loss, but it's still a loss. If you didn't win the game, then you lost the game. There are no more ties in hockey. Going back to the original comment...it was said they played lost 2 out of 11 games, that's implying they won 9.

On that note, I sure hope we don't trade Flip. Was there anyone mentioned in return?

No just a very vague tweet from someone. Id trade him for Giroux, thats about it. But that wont happen.

[rrasco]

So we're trading him for Lilja, eh? /s

[Z Winged Dangler]

We have one of the most capable rosters in the whole league that can deliver in each and every game and all we get is clear lack of effort. I'm getting tired of all these after game quotes "We though we were prepared", "We just got beat, 7-1, so to start like that tonight, to me, is lack of preparation," "It was a disappointing effort. The coaching staff didn't do a good enough job; the players didn't do a good enough job."

We've heard such things so many times during the last two/three years. Where are the consequences? I think the real reason is that everyone on the roster feel too safe. They known that no matter how bad they play they'll never be traded. Starting from 4th line plug Miller to "superstar" Zetterberg. When intensity of the game is rather low we often win on a pure skill, when it gets higher like in the last two games we simply give up. To me this is pure lack of effort. If Bertuzzi or Zetterberg don't like to compete in games like this scratch them and call up Nyquist or Tatar.

PS For those saying that it is only two games (there are always a plenty of such guys) I recommend to watch some other teams. No team in this league gives up games so easily.

i started the topic "what's up with Zetterberg?" cause i can't watch hockey until i get back to Canada and i wanted to know the consensus of the LGW faithful about how the team was playing and Z while he doesn't put points up, but EVERYONE on here said Z's just not getting the bounces and that he'll have a couple 3 pt games and everyone will say he's a beast and what not.... but to say that he should be benched, a guy that plays through pain and brings it in more than just putting up points, but shutting guys down and giving it everything he's got every shift and making things happen even when he's not dropping bombs on the scoreboard.....we'll that is just plainf****** stupid. Z's making 6+ mil a season cause he's worth it. you don't bench a SUPERSTAR cause he's not a point a game YET. you switch things up and get s*** going. maybe give Z a Nyquist, whom should be in the NHL, so i back you on the point of the roster spot certainty....but i don't back you at all on benching guys like Z, or even Bert whom if you forget, had a great year last year and has been playing great as a wing since he came back. we're not even 10 games in yet... the consequences with the Wings....we only get a stanley cup to celebrate every 6 years now. really butthurt over that one....guess we'll have to cry ourselves to sleep and trash talk until Nyquist wins the conn smythe in 2014. hang in buddy!

[LeftWinger]

So what you're saying is your first post was incorrect and what you meant to say was they lost 4 games, 2 in OT, and have played 11 games. I didn't look it up b/c you presented me with all I needed when you stated they had 2 losses in 11 games...OT loss is still a loss. I don't care if analysts act like it's not.

Yes but, no matter which way you view it, Detroit has a higher winning percentage than Pit. Which is what my point was in my first post...

Edited by LeftWinger, 28 October 2011 - 08:24 PM.

[Lonewuhf]

An OT loss is not a loss. Its not a win, but not a loss. Any team will take the 1pt over nothing, and making it to OT pretty much means it was an even game so its nothing to freak out about. This is salary cap hockey.

Any who, I came here to post that there have been rumors of trading Flip to philly. I dont think they will offer what we would need to let him go, but well see. Just curious to see everyones thoughts.

Er, I highly doubt they trade Fil. He's been one of the most solid performers on the team so far. I hardly think of a "vague tweet" as anything that can be even considered a rumor. Fact is, we're losing because our top paid players aren't performing.

[brett]

Figure a way to get Moen here. Big gritty PK shut down forward.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Figure a way to get Moen here. Big gritty PK shut down forward.

This.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Would a trade for Kyle Turris benefit us?

[newfy]

Er, I highly doubt they trade Fil. He's been one of the most solid performers on the team so far. I hardly think of a "vague tweet" as anything that can be even considered a rumor. Fact is, we're losing because our top paid players aren't performing.

That is what would make him likely to be traded really. Hes a solid player, so by packaging him with a prospect or draft pick you can get a HIGH impact player.

Setoguchi are similar players to me and he was good enough to become the focal point of a trade for Brent Burns, who is a bonafide number one defenseman.

You obviously dont trade a solid performer like Fil for just anything to shake the team up, but because he has performed so well and has a movable contract he canf etch a very good player

[The Secret]

We have a few players that we've been waiting for to have their "breakout" season. Hudler and Filpula namely. Both are very trade-able pieces and I think the time has come to see what can be put together to bring in someone new for the top 6. I may even consider seeing what interest Mule would get.

[Aussie_Wing]

Last time I checked Filppula was leading the team in points...

[DRW Dominance]

That is what would make him likely to be traded really. Hes a solid player, so by packaging him with a prospect or draft pick you can get a HIGH impact player.

Setoguchi are similar players to me and he was good enough to become the focal point of a trade for Brent Burns, who is a bonafide number one defenseman.

You obviously dont trade a solid performer like Fil for just anything to shake the team up, but because he has performed so well and has a movable contract he canf etch a very good player

BINGO!!

[Shoreline]

Last time I checked Filppula was leading the team in points...

Wow, he's so terrible leading the team in points and +/-. Trade him!

[Red Crazy]

I would be up for trading Dan Cleary. Not sure what he would have for value but he has not looked good for awhile.

[Crymson]

I would be up for trading Dan Cleary. Not sure what he would have for value but he has not looked good for awhile.

LOL. Typical. We're eight games into the season, and now Cleary sucks? Never mind that he was one of the team's best players last season. Never mind that he's a consistent all-around player. He hasn't been playing well over the last three weeks? HE SUCKS! TRADE HIM!

Edited by Crymson, 29 October 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

LOL. Typical. We're eight games into the season, and now Cleary sucks? Never mind that he was one of the team's best players last season. Never mind that he's a consistent all-around player. He hasn't been playing well over the last three weeks? HE SUCKS! TRADE HIM!

He never said Cleary sucks. He said Cleary hasn't looked good in a while, but I guess it's easier to mock him when you put words in his mouth.

And all the qualities you listed about Cleary are what would make him valuable trade material. Due to his fearless style of play, he is injury prone and at 32 years old probably doesn't have a lot of years left in him. I wouldn't want to get rid of him, but it's not outrageous to at least discuss trading him.

In the past people would make ridiculous trade suggestions, trying to dump the Wings garbage in return for other team's quality players. Now he gets s*** for suggesting trading someone who might actually have value to another team?