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This team screams for a trade


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#161 evil204

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:37 AM

I think what we should all be worried about isn't any particular player or whether they're declining...they'll get it back eventually. We know what all these guys are capable of when they want to play. What we SHOULD be worried about is the fact that it's taking more and more for this team to feel any sense of urgency. They got embarrassed two times in a row and, with a chance to turn things around against the team that knocked them out of the playoffs the last two years, showed up with nothing more than an average effort. They lacked focus once again, allowing breakaways and leaving people open. In the past, you KNEW that any time the Wings got lit up, they'd show up with their best effort the following night. Not this year, apparently. This is the same team that sleepwalked through the first two games of the SJ series last year, stopped skating midway through their first elimination game, and didn't skate for the first 50 minutes of their second elimination game. Whether that's a symptom of too much success, or the fact that we've had the same coach for 5 years, the team being too comfortable, etc...the issue has to be largely mental.

#162 Bryguy

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:37 AM

I think Rene Bourque would be a nice pickup. But i know it wont happen, theyll try to right the ship and maybe make a small deadline move.

#163 esteef

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:40 AM

Avery for the Cup!

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#164 dallas27

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:41 AM

What else is there to say?

I showed how nobody is condoning the Wings' play the past two games and simply saying to lay off the panic button, and you respond by saying that laying off the panic button IS condoning the Wings' play. And then when I ask you to back up that logic, you accuse me of having nothing of substance to say.

You are aware how asinine that is, right?

Posted Image

The only one talking about the panic button is YOU. You're more than welcome to go back and read my posts and search for the word panic. SPOILER ALERT: You won't see it hehehehehehehheheheheheh

In case you missed it I said this

Line combinations = roster. Pretty simple concept. Again, I'm not stating there is a problem. But if Babcock is hinting at it then maybe there is some truth to it. He's obviously trying to juggle the ROSTER to find some combination to spark the team becuase we all know they aren't playing the best hockey as of late, he's said so himself. Just because "it's been the most said statement by him" doesn't make it any less true. However I'm more inclined to think it could have been the month in between games they had. But if that spark, down the road, is waiving Brunnstrom and Emmerton and putting in Murask and Tatar, both of whom have more upside than the former, then so be it. Tatar is nothing but passion and hustle. Look at his first goal, kid wants to be a Red Wing. That's not saying the rest of the players don't. I have to try and be as clear as possible here.


Wait a second...isn't Brunnstrom on waivers now? Get outta here! Looks like Emmerton is the next one on the block. See, I did have substance, you just didn't agree with it so you dismissed it. Just because you don't have an opinion and someone said something in the slightest negative way doesn't mean you have to blast it.

Who's next? Ah, the ol' corn cob Shoreline

That post I made was 3 and a half hours ago, quit "living in the past". :cool:


^ Here is dallas "living in the past". 2 games doesn't make a season, it wouldn't even if the season ended in 7 games -- the Wings would still make the playoffs in good fashion.

In actuality, I skipped over your post because I was not quoted and I automatically skip posts that seem tl;dr and not interesting (bold text doesn't inherently make it so). I'm not sure what you mean by "throwing" my logic out the window, but if you'd like I can further make you eat your own four words you toss around like you were trying to oust Barack Obama for needless hypocritical slogans.

Ok, I can work with this. You said;

In 2007-08 the Red Wings' first 7 games were 4-2-1 (9 pts) -- pretty sure we remember how that season ended.

So far they have 5-2-0 (10 pts) and are on pace for 117. So, following a horrendous 5-2 start, without reservation, we begin another season episode of Panic time! :yowza:


I retorted with

I always find it humorous when people make references to the past, especially in sports and when it's five years ago. See, the thing about the past is, well, it's the past. It has little to no relevance to the team in the PRESENT. I *think* there is a saying about not living in the past, I'm not entirely positive though. Yes, it's virtually the same team in terms of the 'core' but you're talking about a Zetterberg, Datysuk, Lidstrom, Rafalaski, etc etc five years younger. There's a little difference there.

But I forgot they won the cup that year so surely they are destined to this year! But wait, I can live in the past as well. Didn't San Jose knock us out the past two years? Not quite sure I want that to repeat itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That's cool they won in 2007-2008 with Marian Hossa and the above names when they were five years younger. But they have lost to San Jose the past two years. So if history proves correct the Red Wings will be kicked out by San Jose. By all means please try to make me eat that. SPOILER ALERT: You can't hehehehehhehehehe

This is going to be EXTREMELY difficult for you to understand, I know, but what a [different] team ddid five (5) years ago has no affect on what they will do this year. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA. Just as, just as, what they have done the past two years means squat. How are they playing RIGHT NOW? Horrible.

Ya dig Inglewood Jack?

And all you can come up with is pointless drivel blasting my post because, as I said, you're just a corn cob who thinks his opinion is more valid and poignant than every other one. s***, you're smug cloud is even bigger than George Clooney's. So what's going to happen now is you're going to come in here and make a long, winding post about how much smarter you are than me and try to put me down somehow rather than admit that you are wrong and I am right. Because for whatever reason you need to feel superior to someone on an interwebz message board. Me, on the other hand, doesn't give two s***s about what you say to me. Truth be told, you could drop dead and I could care less.

Hey, how's Ford doing by the way? Still think they put out garbage? But I digress, welcome to ignore, don't even bother typing a response.

With all that being said... trade for Shane Doan and Zack Parise and they're set. In all reality, however, you're going to see Tatar and Mursak soon. On a sidenote, I got myself started: Legitimate source -a former Wings goalie- also said don't expect the Red Wings to move to the East. Which kinda sucks.

Want me to really blow your mind?

Sergei Samsonov comes into my work quite often and I've asked him every time if ANY team has called him yet. He's told me none of interest. What would I do? Bye-bye Drew Miller or Hudler. Hello Sergei Samsonov. He's far removed from his 70+ point back-to-back seasons but for Detroit's style of play, I think he has enough offensive flair left in the tank to help out a struggling Wings team in desperate need of goals.

PANIC BUTTON PANIC BUTTON PANIC BUTTON

Yea, I'm being an acehole but don't come in here and blast what I say without even TRYING to comment on what I actually posted.

Edited by dallas27, 30 October 2011 - 11:57 AM.



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#165 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:05 PM

i dont want to nit pick, but Hossa didnt win the cup with us in 07-08, he lost in the final against his former Pens team mates the following year but he did win it with the hawks the year after.
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#166 LeftWinger

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:34 PM

i dont want to nit pick, but Hossa didnt win the cup with us in 07-08, he lost in the final against his former Pens team mates the following year but he did win it with the hawks the year after.

Yes, you are correct, forgive me if I referred to him with us in 08, I am not sure if I did, but in 2009, he was our sniper, he fell off in the playoffs, but if it weren't for a couple of circumstances, the Wings would've won the Cup in 09 as well. There is that whole Bettman circumventing the rules thing that would've had Malkin sitting out in game three all but guaranteeing us a 3-0 lead in the series. But even with that, there were those couple of goal posts in game 7 that if buried would've won it for us too. But, since then we haven't come close to having a pure sniper to play with Datsyuk. Hudler, Franzen or Cleary are not 1st line worthy in that regard. But what else do we have....

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#167 CanadaBoy

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:42 PM

Yes, you are correct, forgive me if I referred to him with us in 08, I am not sure if I did, but in 2009, he was our sniper, he fell off in the playoffs, but if it weren't for a couple of circumstances, the Wings would've won the Cup in 09 as well. There is that whole Bettman circumventing the rules thing that would've had Malkin sitting out in game three all but guaranteeing us a 3-0 lead in the series. But even with that, there were those couple of goal posts in game 7 that if buried would've won it for us too. But, since then we haven't come close to having a pure sniper to play with Datsyuk. Hudler, Franzen or Cleary are not 1st line worthy in that regard. But what else do we have....


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#168 wings_fanatic

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:29 PM

No, in another universe in 2009 Kenny signed Hossa long term and let Franzen walk.

#169 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:23 PM

bring up Pulkkinen now :D
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#170 Doc Holliday

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:52 PM

The only one talking about the panic button is YOU. You're more than welcome to go back and read my posts and search for the word panic. SPOILER ALERT: You won't see it hehehehehehehhehehehehehqq

Yeah, saying the team screams for a trade 5-6 games into a season isn't pressing the panic button at all.


In case you missed it I said this

Wait a second...isn't Brunnstrom on waivers now? Get outta here! Looks like Emmerton is the next one on the block. See, I did have substance, you just didn't agree with it so you dismissed it. Just because you don't have an opinion and someone said something in the slightest negative way doesn't mean you have to blast it.

It was a silly premise and it was getting up in arms about two losses when Holland not only has a bunch of cap space, but the time necessary to work with that cap space and change the team over the course of the season.

Also, Brunnstrom had played how much ice time in a Wings uniform before getting waived? Nobody expected him to be a top 6 player, or get into games a lot. And he didn't. Nothing new about that. Second, slotting young guys in is going to solve what? Zetterberg is still on the roster and getting blasted. Bertuzzi is still on the roster and getting blasted. Cleary is still on the roster and getting blasted. Are you of the opinion that replacing Tatar or Nyquist with those two is going to happen?

Don't be so defensive. It's not even November, yet. I think the Wings still have a team that isn't completely whole, yet. However I'm not of the opinion the team "screams for a trade" right now and is going to be on the outside looking in at the 40 game mark. Hell, you might not believe it, but the tone of your title and thread represents urgency to me.

Posted Image


#171 wings1110

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:13 PM

bring up Pulkkinen now :D

a lot of teams would have

#172 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:15 PM

Maybe if we claim Avery off re-entry waivers, we'll win the Cup like we did in 2002 when he was on our roster. Amirite?
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#173 wings1110

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:16 PM

Maybe if we claim Avery off re-entry waivers, we'll win the Cup like we did in 2002 when he was on our roster. Amirite?

maybe not, but it would be more entertaining.

#174 eva unit zero

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:21 PM

i can't believe the response to the original post here has been so unanimously negative. it's a little overboard, sure. but he does make some points.

i personally cannot believe how much respect babcock - the same babcock that benched mike modano in the playoffs last season - continues to give to that worthless plug bertuzzi. especially with a ready-to-go talent like nyquist in grand rapids.

certainly there are some things the team needs to address. but there's too much panic right now. far too much.


Modano sat because he was the team's worst forward. Modano was just as bad as Hudler during Hudler's slump. Then he got injured. He wasn't very good after he came back either; a recent hand injury can do that. Why should he have played? He would have brought nothing that would have helped the team against San Jose more than another forward he would be replacing, unless he suddenly returned to his 1999 form.

Uh....:blink:

That's not a knock on your suggestion, quite the opposite. I just remember all the opposition I had on here in the season following Detroit's loss in game 7 of the SCF in 2009 (ya, the one when Hudler was coming back to return us to the promised land) I was on the soapbox begging and begging to sign Travis Moen and Manny Malhotra, yet I got slammed by a number of folks, and got slammed even more when those signed for $1.5M per year in Montreal and San Jose respectively and Holland opted for signing Bertuzzi and Jason Williams for $1.5M each. I was ok with Bertuzzi, but hated, HATED the return of Hudler and the Williams signing. I voiced my opinion of Holland at the time and I think I amassed a -101 that off season. What made matters worse is Malhotra contacted the Wings wanting to sign here, but the team wasn't interested. In the matter of point production, these two really didn't outscore Holland's options or Hudler, but I still think this team would've been a better team and much harder to play against with Moen/Malhotra rather than Williams/Hudler. I do remember that offseason I was suggesting trading Hudler's rights at the draft to try to move up. Could you imagine this lineup with Moen, Malhotra and Bertuzzi instead of Williams, Hudler, Bertuzzi?

...I still think they would've been the better choices, I don't think we lose to San Jose neither time, and quite possibly had a return to the Cup glory, but we'll never know...


I don't specifically remember others, but I was a fan of the Malhotra and Moen ideas; although I thought at the time they were overpaid. I didn't like either Bertuzzi or Williams when they signed, but the reasoning behind it made sense; Williams had produced well and Bert was a pretty solid scorer. If Williams keeps up his numbers that's a very different result in evaluating that move. Also, You bring up "Moen/Malhotra/Bertuzzi vs. Williams/Hudler/Bertuzzi" when the following is the case:

1) Jason Williams and Jiri Hudler were teammates on the Wings in Hudler's rookie year (2006-07), until the trade deadline when Williams was traded.

2) Jason Williams and Todd Bertuzzi were teammates on the Wings in 2009-10, the year Hudler was playing in the KHL.

3) Jiri Hudler and Todd Bertuzzi have been teammates on the Wings since 2010-11.

4) The Wings would not have been able to afford all three of Moen/Malthora/Bertuzzi. Hudler did not affect the cap in 2009-10, remember?

Yes, you are correct, forgive me if I referred to him with us in 08, I am not sure if I did, but in 2009, he was our sniper, he fell off in the playoffs, but if it weren't for a couple of circumstances, the Wings would've won the Cup in 09 as well. There is that whole Bettman circumventing the rules thing that would've had Malkin sitting out in game three all but guaranteeing us a 3-0 lead in the series. But even with that, there were those couple of goal posts in game 7 that if buried would've won it for us too. But, since then we haven't come close to having a pure sniper to play with Datsyuk. Hudler, Franzen or Cleary are not 1st line worthy in that regard. But what else do we have....


Bettman had absolutely zero say in Malkin's non-suspension in 2009. That was Colin Campbell.

Edited by eva unit zero, 30 October 2011 - 08:21 PM.

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#175 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:23 PM

maybe not, but it would be more entertaining.

If he stuck to just playing hockey, he could help a lot of teams. I don't understand why Avery gets the same amount of hate as a guy like Cooke. Sure, Avery's a s***head and a spotpicker, but he hasn't ended anyone's career with a cheap-shot. I wouldn't mind having him here, if he kept his mouth shut.

I don't see where he would fit into the Rangers lineup. They could send Kris Newbury back down to the AHL, and have Erik Christensen sit in the press box, but I'm not sure what they want to do with him.
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#176 Crymson

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:30 PM

I never have and never will say that Cleary sucks. In fact he is one of my favorite Wings. I stated that he has not looked good for awhile. Cleary works hard there is no doubting that but he is could be replaced by somebody that could contribute on the score board as well. Perhaps you think that in order to make a trade you don't have to give anyone up? Or if you are so against a trade why are you reading a trade thread? :huh:


He has not looked good in awhile? You make it seem like he has had several bad seasons. We are NINE GAMES into the season. He was one of our best players last year. So yes, I will call what you're saying an absolute exaggeration.

See above and take notes. Your schtick is absolutely aggravating, tiring and old. And this is coming from a guy who almost always sees the glass half-full and doesn't go on flip outs or panic attacks immediatly after a game. And this isn't just me saying this, you've been told this constantly in the past by others.


You're speaking as if you haven't levied this same criticism at me several times already.

#177 Crymson

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:36 PM

You act like everyone here is severely overreacting and wants to tear this team apart. While a select few might make hasty and irrational comments to that effect, most of us don't.


Everyone?

The team hasn't played well lately. End of story. As fans, can we not criticize that?


Sure.

If we have doubts that our team might not be good enough to win the Cup--are we no longer fans?


Nope. However, I think there's a big difference between "I don't think this team can challenge for the Cup as is" and "this team won't win the Cup this season." The former is an opinion, the latter a declaration. If one has already given up, then why bother continuing?

A slight overreaction on the pessimistic side is still much better than this cockeyed, self-righteous optimism of yours.


I think we've seen markedly more than slight overreactions. As for "cockeyed optimism," lol. I always laugh when I see people accuse me of this as if it matters that I'm so optimistic. In the end, none of our discussions here will have any effect on what the team does, so it's not as if me being optimistic is going to prevent there from being a trade or whatever. That said, I'm aware that the only way us fans can help the team in even a miniscule way on an individual basis is to support them. Obviously this is a forum for discussion, but still I find it silly when people go nuts, and I find it both absurd and irritating when people exhibit such a marked lack of ability to appreciate how much success this team has had over the last two decades; the latter, not blind optimism, is one reason why I heavily criticize people who lose touch with the ground. That said, blind optimism is just about the best thing any of us can have, given that we're cheering for a sports team whose performance we have absolutely no way of seriously affecting. What's the worst that can happen?

#178 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:41 PM

This team needs more Garnet Exelby.
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#179 eva unit zero

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:00 PM

Wait a second...isn't Brunnstrom on waivers now? Get outta here! Looks like Emmerton is the next one on the block. See, I did have substance, you just didn't agree with it so you dismissed it. Just because you don't have an opinion and someone said something in the slightest negative way doesn't mean you have to blast it.


Why would Emmerton be next, and who's replacing him? Why not Miller or Eaves? Eaves has sat in the press box for four games, Miller for two, and Emmerton for two. Emmerton is four years younger than the others, and all of them are capable PKers. Emmerton is the only center of the three.

That's cool they won in 2007-2008 with Marian Hossa and the above names when they were five years younger. But they have lost to San Jose the past two years. So if history proves correct the Red Wings will be kicked out by San Jose. By all means please try to make me eat that. SPOILER ALERT: You can't hehehehehhehehehe

This is going to be EXTREMELY difficult for you to understand, I know, but what a [different] team ddid five (5) years ago has no affect on what they will do this year. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA. Just as, just as, what they have done the past two years means squat. How are they playing RIGHT NOW? Horrible.

Ya dig Inglewood Jack?

And all you can come up with is pointless drivel blasting my post because, as I said, you're just a corn cob who thinks his opinion is more valid and poignant than every other one. s***, you're


*your

smug cloud is even bigger than George Clooney's. So what's going to happen now is you're going to come in here and make a long, winding post about how much smarter you are than me and try to put me down somehow rather than admit that you are wrong and I am right. Because for whatever reason you need to feel superior to someone on an interwebz message board. Me, on the other hand, doesn't give two s***s about what you say to me. Truth be told, you could drop dead and I could care less.


Couldn't. It's "I couldn't care less" because "I could care less" means that you do care. Which is the complete opposite of what you are saying. Proper spelling and grammar are our friends. You should become acquainted with them if you desire to be taken seriously.

With all that being said... trade for Shane Doan and Zack Parise and they're set. In all reality, however, you're going to see Tatar and Mursak soon. On a sidenote, I got myself started: Legitimate source -a former Wings goalie- also said don't expect the Red Wings to move to the East. Which kinda sucks.


Trade for Doan and Parise? And what are we giving up, Hudler/Kindl/1st to New Jersey and to Phoenix at the same time?

Want me to really blow your


NO!

mind?


Oh.

Sergei Samsonov comes into my work quite often and I've asked him every time if ANY team has called him yet. He's told me none of interest. What would I do? Bye-bye Drew Miller or Hudler. Hello Sergei Samsonov. He's far removed from his 70+ point back-to-back seasons but for Detroit's style of play, I think he has enough offensive flair left in the tank to help out a struggling Wings team in desperate need of goals.


I like the Sergei Samsonov idea. I've liked the idea of Sergei Samsonov for years. But Ken Holland doesn't. Sergei Samsonov contacted the Wings about trying out, and the Wings said no thanks.


Ya dig, Inglewood Jack?
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#180 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:32 PM

He has not looked good in awhile? You make it seem like he has had several bad seasons. We are NINE GAMES into the season. He was one of our best players last year. So yes, I will call what you're saying an absolute exaggeration.



You're speaking as if you haven't levied this same criticism at me several times already.

And you are speaking like you have no clue how to listen to people.

Nobody here wants to be told on how to act or what proper fan ettiquete is.

Since you aren't even remotely hinting at attempting to take people's advice or criticism about you to try to better yourself, or even just trying to understand, I'm done with this.

Have fun continuing getting dumped on for telling people how they should act and overreacting to people who really aren't overreacting.





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