57 replies to this topic

[KrazyGangsta]

Yzerman - Shanny - Hasek

[SuperNovaXll]

Yzerman, Gordie or Sawchuck... I would take any of them.

[Learn2LuvIt]

Stevie Y
Vladimir Konstantinov
Fedorov
Joey Kocur

[w00p33]

I have always wished we could have kept Kozlov in '02. I realize that we got Hasek for him, and that put us over the top that year, but Kozlov was one of my favorites from that era, ever since he turnbuckled Adam Foote's face.

Agreed, one of the better players in a young Atlanta team after he left too. Definitely would have seen him stayed longer but we went all-star in '02 (not complaining, just saying...) Here's my dark-horse kinda' player I would've liked to seen go longer or be playing again in his top form.. Igor Larionov. He's no play-maker like Dats or Hemsky, not a physical powerhouse but is kinda' to forwards what Lidstrom is to D, he seemed to have it all, D/O awareness and always on top of a situation.

[eva unit zero]

I have always wished we could have kept Kozlov in '02. I realize that we got Hasek for him, and that put us over the top that year, but Kozlov was one of my favorites from that era, ever since he turnbuckled Adam Foote's face.

Hasek didn't put the Wings over the top.

Out of the Wings' top 12 forwards and 6 defensemen in games played from 2001 for 2002: Lapointe, Kozlov, Verbeek, Brown, Gilchrist, Ward, Murphy, Gill.

Into the Wings top 12/6 for 2002: Hull, Robitaille, Datsyuk, Larionov, Yzerman, Chelios, Duchesne, Olausson.

Something tells me that if you don't make the Hasek deal, and put Devereaux's name on that first list instead, the Wings still win the Cup in 2002. Because that's a pretty significant difference in team quality. An increase of four or five HHOFers who, while not in their primes, were still playing well? That's significant.

maybe not the spirit of the question...but...

i'd bring back pav from last year.

and i'd play him with pav from this year.



...i was born in '87, and as a result i obviously don't remember stevie-y's '88/'89 season, so i'm not going to speculate about him or any of the other classics.

the most dominant wing i've ever witnessed with my own eyes was pav last season. i thought he was better last season than federov ever was in his prime (better defensively, a better team player). i thought he was better last season than stevie-y ever was in his prime...that i saw (more dynamic offensively). i thought he had a bigger impact on the team last season than nick lidstrom ever had in his prime.

my second choice would be dom in his red wing prime, just because i think that a TRULY ELITE goalie is so valuable.

Datsyuk from any point in his career is not as good as Fedorov at his best or Yzerman at his best. Yzerman at his best was the best player in the league DURING GRETZKY AND LEMIEUX'S PRIMES. The fact that you think Datsyuk is/was better defensively than Fedorov shows that you really have never watched Fedorov. And what exactly do you qualify as dynamic offense? Dangles? The ability to carry an offense on your back? Yzerman did all of that, and was a faster skater than Datsyuk.

Dominik Hasek was great in his prime, but he wasn't even the best goalie in the past 10-15 years to play for the Wings in terms of a given season with the Wings. Osgood had multiple seasons that were much better than Hasek's 2001-02 season. Beyond that, there's Terry Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, and Roger Crozier as options for great Wings goalies. You can even take Mike Vernon's 1995 season as well.

Hasek has a great argument as the best goalie of all-time. But his greatness was in Buffalo; he wasn't even a Vezina contender in Detroit.

Edited by eva unit zero, 03 November 2011 - 12:56 PM.

[Wing Across The Pond]

I'm liking some of the choices here, really good.

I'd argue that our offensive ability isn't bad at all, we've still got world class players who can score goals - don't chastise me because we're in a slump, we still have those great offensively skilled players. For this reason I'd go with what we need, a guy with a bit of pop who can get a momentum going and drum up some dressing room confidence and cohesion.

So I'd overlook the quote-unquote obvious players for those on the bottom 6 who bring something that we need - look at the 08 win, that bottom 6 had a bit of everything: checkers - Helm, Maltby, Draper, etc; they had guys who could score some goals - thinking Sammy; they had tough guys - Downey AND DMac on that roster for example. We looked unstoppable.

So I'd take someone like Drake '08. Nothing to prove really, just going to sit on those bottom 2 lines every week, help out the young kids, throw the body, occasionally throw the gloves as well, chip in a few goals, and generally lead by having a good time in their last season, back at home where it all started. The one thing that annoys me now, is pretty much the entire bottom 6 are employed to eat minutes on the PK. I'd argue there's no other reason for it.

EDIT: If not I'd take Modano, but only if I could have him c.1994

Edited by Wing Across The Pond, 03 November 2011 - 01:30 PM.

[KrazyGangsta]

Hasek didn't put the Wings over the top.

Out of the Wings' top 12 forwards and 6 defensemen in games played from 2001 for 2002: Lapointe, Kozlov, Verbeek, Brown, Gilchrist, Ward, Murphy, Gill.

Into the Wings top 12/6 for 2002: Hull, Robitaille, Datsyuk, Larionov, Yzerman, Chelios, Duchesne, Olausson.

Something tells me that if you don't make the Hasek deal, and put Devereaux's name on that first list instead, the Wings still win the Cup in 2002. Because that's a pretty significant difference in team quality. An increase of four or five HHOFers who, while not in their primes, were still playing well? That's significant.



Datsyuk from any point in his career is not as good as Fedorov at his best or Yzerman at his best. Yzerman at his best was the best player in the league DURING GRETZKY AND LEMIEUX'S PRIMES. The fact that you think Datsyuk is/was better defensively than Fedorov shows that you really have never watched Fedorov. And what exactly do you qualify as dynamic offense? Dangles? The ability to carry an offense on your back? Yzerman did all of that, and was a faster skater than Datsyuk.

Dominik Hasek was great in his prime, but he wasn't even the best goalie in the past 10-15 years to play for the Wings in terms of a given season with the Wings. Osgood had multiple seasons that were much better than Hasek's 2001-02 season. Beyond that, there's Terry Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, and Roger Crozier as options for great Wings goalies. You can even take Mike Vernon's 1995 season as well.

Hasek has a great argument as the best goalie of all-time. But his greatness was in Buffalo; he wasn't even a Vezina contender in Detroit.

I must agree, Hasek best years we're with Buffalo. Hasek didn't carry the 02 team like he did when he was with the sabres. About Yzerman ... come on this guy is one of the best to players in the NHL history & I see Federov as one of the top defensive highly offensive forwards in NHL history also.

Federov > Datsyuk & Zetts

Yzerman > Best player in the NHL if we don't only look at stats. (Sportsmanship, leadership, loyalty etc...) The guy changed his game style to suit the team so we can win cups.

Edited by KrazyGangsta, 03 November 2011 - 04:29 PM.

[gcom007]

I'll stick with active players who could come back and actually contribute in reality tomorrow if a miracle happened. That said...

Marian Hossa.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Yeah Marian Hossa. Looking more and more like the letting Hossa walk and signing Franzen long term deal was a bad idea. I hate to say that but it's true.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 03 November 2011 - 09:15 PM.

[stinky fish taco]

Looking more and more like the letting Hossa walk and signing Franzen long term deal was a bad idea.

.

[Electrophile]

At this point, I don't even think the stalwarts of the 1997-1998 and 2002 championship teams could do much to help them right now. Nick and Homer are I believe the only players left from those three Cup runs, and they can't do it all themselves.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

.

God bless you.

[sean]

I must agree, Hasek best years we're with Buffalo. Hasek didn't carry the 02 team like he did when he was with the sabres. About Yzerman ... come on this guy is one of the best to players in the NHL history & I see Federov as one of the top defensive highly offensive forwards in NHL history also.

Federov > Datsyuk & Zetts

Yzerman > Best player in the NHL if we don't only look at stats. (Sportsmanship, leadership, loyalty etc...) The guy changed his game style to suit the team so we can win cups.

I, too, mispell Sergei's name as an underhanded insult; cheers!

As your quotee hinted at/mentioned, you don't even need to consider Yzerman's leadership, character, etc, to say he was one of the league's elite when he was younger. Dude was lights out.

[gcom007]

Yeah Marian Hossa. Looking more and more like the letting Hossa walk and signing Franzen long term deal was a bad idea. I hate to say that but it's true.

Sure, Franzen's there, but we could've signed Franzen and let Hudler walk while trading Flip and kept Hossa too. I'd rather gamble on keeping Franzen for a sub-$4 million cap hit, but clinging to Hudler and Flip over a superstar like Hossa? Pure insanity.

[eva unit zero]

Sure, Franzen's there, but we could've signed Franzen and let Hudler walk while trading Flip and kept Hossa too. I'd rather gamble on keeping Franzen for a sub-$4 million cap hit, but clinging to Hudler and Flip over a superstar like Hossa? Pure insanity.

Hudler wasn't on the cap in 2009-10; the Wings were still spent right up to the cap.


Maybe the Wings could have cut Flip loose and kept Hossa and signed two minimum wagers instead of Bert and Williams, but that wasn't happening. It was ultimately Franzen or Hossa.

[KrazyGangsta]

Hudler wasn't on the cap in 2009-10; the Wings were still spent right up to the cap.


Maybe the Wings could have cut Flip loose and kept Hossa and signed two minimum wagers instead of Bert and Williams, but that wasn't happening. It was ultimately Franzen or Hossa.

Franzen:

2009 - 2010 : 10 goals - 11 assists - 21 points = 27 games
2010 - 2011 : 28 goals - 27 assists - 55 points = 76 games
2011 - 2012 : 04 goals - 03 assists - 07 points = 11 games

Hossa:

2009 - 2010 : 24 goals - 27 assists - 51 points = 57 games
2010 - 2011 : 25 goals - 32 assists - 57 points = 76 games
2011 - 2012 : 06 goals - 05 assists - 11 points = 11 games

Thus far, Hossa > Franzen in very categories.

My question to you is, would you have chose Hossa or Franzen?

[cusimano_brothers]

Although, there might be too many suspensions.

[Travis]

Shanahan, so he can suspend every other team.