10/28 GDT: Sharks 4 at Red Wings 2

[Guest Crymson]

Seriously guys, can we agree that Kenny needs to make some sort of move by the deadline if we are to beat the sharks in a 7 game series?

Why is consensus on this important to you? I don't understand.

Can't beat SJ, bottom line.

I'm just waiting on when you'll say that if we had Ritola, everything would be different.

In other news, I see you got hit on the head and forgot about last postseason. The Sharks won that series on two absurd bounces in OT.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Crymson

[wings_fanatic 677]

Cuz its pretty evident to a lot of fans, yet kenny does not recognize the need for change. He has dressed pretty much the same team the past 2 years and this year, and wouldn't you know, we still have trouble winning against the sharks. We are right there with them, but they end up winning. We need a minor change to better them.

[Nightfall 871]

Do you know what I like about the Red Wings? In my 15+ years as a fan, I've never seen them miss the playoffs, raise four Cups, produce some of the best players that this and any generation will ever see, do the unthinkable and put teams together like 2002 and even the 2008 squad in the salary cap era that missed another cup by one game, a GM who doesn't make knee-jerk reactions and trade assets for rentals and has faith that the team's they have will be successful.

The negativity on this board blows my ******* mind. The Wings haven't had it easy like the Hawks, Penguins and Capitals who have put their fans through hell while piling up draft picks that finally led to some success. They put good teams together with good late drafting and signing key free agents.

No wonder no one respects Wings fans... the comments on this thread just confirm the fact that everyone thinks that they're arrogant, spoiled fans. It's three weeks into the ******* season... knock this s*** off.

I don't care if the Wings win it all or miss the playoffs, I'll continue to watch these guys do this thing and enjoy Lidstrom's potential last season while everyone attempts to kill themselves after EVERY SINGLE LOSS.

I agree with you 100%. It has gotten so bad on these forums to the point that I am going to other hockey forum boards to be active. Reading all the negativity on these boards really does make me feel the way that you do. I will also add another word into your definition and that is "entitled". Many wings fans feel just because they put a team on the ice, that they are entitled to a victory. This is the kind of attitude that you breed when your team never misses the playoffs and has won 4 stanley cups. This forum really does need an enema.

Then I read some of the positive comments from the great fans on this forum and it makes me change my mind. For as many negative fans, there are some positive ones that actually know the game of hockey. These are the people that I keep coming back to this forum for.

I am watching a DVR recording of the game now. I was watching the Griffins get beat soundly by the Heat tonight. It looks like it is going to be a close game just from the first 10 minutes of the game.

[Guest Crymson]

Cuz its pretty evident to a lot of fans, yet kenny does not recognize the need for change.

So what are you going to do? Start a movement? Develop a petition?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Why is consensus on this important to you? I don't understand.

I'm just waiting on when you'll say that if we had Ritola, everything would be different.

In other news, I see you got hit on the head and forgot about last postseason. The Sharks won that series on two absurd bounces in OT.

Absurd bounces?

More like an absurd post. Stop making childish excuses each time we lose in the playoffs.

According to some people here, we haven't legitimately lost a series in like 8 years.

I agree with you 100%. It has gotten so bad on these forums to the point that I am going to other hockey forum boards to be active. Reading all the negativity on these boards really does make me feel the way that you do. I will also add another word into your definition and that is "entitled". Many wings fans feel just because they put a team on the ice, that they are entitled to a victory. This is the kind of attitude that you breed when your team never misses the playoffs and has won 4 stanley cups. This forum really does need an enema.

Then I read some of the positive comments from the great fans on this forum and it makes me change my mind. For as many negative fans, there are some positive ones that actually know the game of hockey. These are the people that I keep coming back to this forum for.

I am watching a DVR recording of the game now. I was watching the Griffins get beat soundly by the Heat tonight. It looks like it is going to be a close game just from the first 10 minutes of the game.

I am unhappy about the way we're playing, Nightfall.

Edited October 29, 2011 by GMRwings1983

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I'm just waiting on when you'll say that if we had Ritola, everything would be different.

Your Ritola obssession, cute.

In other news, I see you got hit on the head and forgot about last postseason. The Sharks won that series on two absurd bounces in OT.

Say no more.

[Guest stinky fish taco]

According to some people here, we haven't legitimately lost a series in like 8 years.

great post.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Well, this is frustrating.

Lose a game you play then come home to see your team lose their game as well. Hope their loss wasn't as pathetic as ours was.

Also it is sad that not once, but twice in the past two days I am agreeing with GMR. It's like freaking bizzaro world here.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Doc Holliday

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Well, this is frustrating.

Lose a game you play then come home to see your team lose their game as well. Hope their loss wasn't as pathetic as ours was.

Also it is sad that not once, but twice in the past two days I am agreeing with GMR. It's like freaking bizzaro world here.

About us needing someone like Parros and Erskine?

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Obviously this team needs to trade for Kopecky.

*snicker*

[P. Marlowe 748]

MLive

"They really started to pinch a lot as a team, and we were fortunate enough to get the puck in behind them and away we went," San Jose coach Todd McLellan said. “It was nice to see Jumbo shoot it. He had nobody to pass to. But he did look behind him. He worried me."

[Cali-Wing-Nut 102]

Who kidnapped our team????

This saga is an ongoing embarrassment, tonight I could pin it on a few guys that Im surprised to say...

Flip. SUCKED BALLS. Looked like he ate valium with his cheerios this morning.

Ian White. As I suspected would soften up and not bring any p,lays to the body.

Stewie, Wow I havent had many bad thing to say about him but he was hideous, looked like Daniel-son going after flies with chop sticks BEFORE Mr Miagi taught him Kata.

Last but not least...

BABCOCK, yes I said it. He has obviously made a decision to change things dramatically and he has done it in spades. Just like Barry O gave us sweeping change so has our coach. It just isnt working. The PP second unit experiment.. FAIL. This zone-man on man defense hybrid that has everyone chasing the puck like a swarm of bees.. FAIL.

As far as the centers are concerned.. LEARN TO TAKE A f***IN DRAW!!!! Seriously, we are horrific on FO's. Sad thing is we normaly turn it over even if we win the face off.

Our first pas is atrocious and has caused too many turnovers and costed us a break away tonight.

All in all, this team seriously needs to get back to basics. Solid passes, position and hustle. Seems like Babs is trying to teach magic to monkeys right now instead of strengthening the fundamentals that our highly talented team can use to lethal ends.

Im going to the Wings game in SJ on the 11th and I am praying that we turn things around by then, I am a bit pessimistic but Im going and Ill be rooting them on.

[wings_fanatic 677]

Umm, Red Wings were actually pretty dominant on Faceoffs tonight. That is one thing that they all did pretty good tonight. As for the defense coverage, I agree that they need to take a bit more of a simplistic approach... there are times where they look like a timbits team chasing after the puck.

As for the 2nd powerplay unit, I disagree with you. A couple games ago, everyone was praising Babs and coaching staff for how great that unit was on the PP, now all of a sudden Babcock is dumb for that?? Come on, that line just had a really off night tonight, no need to blame Babs for that. Like I said earlier, there is no reason Babs couldn't have left Pavs and Hank out there the entire PP in the 3rd since the 2nd unit was so bad all night. The Pens and Caps are able to keep their key guys out the entire 2 min, so we can too sometimes.

Another thing that needs to be fixed is the PK. It is simply a disaster! They look so disorganized, its not even funny. The problem is that this season Babs is just throwing out random forwards to kill off penalties, and they never have the same partner- - same for the Dmen. In 2008 our PK was so successful because we had units, and we stuck to them. I dont care what anyone says, our PK is 10 times better when Pavs and Z are on a unit killing it off (it worked then) and they both like to do it. So they should be a unit, along with Helm and Miller/Eaves and Fil/Cleary as the 3rd unit. That way there, each unit has forwards who are used to one another, which will help organize and kill off penalties.

[Cali-Wing-Nut 102]

Umm, Red Wings were actually pretty dominant on Faceoffs tonight. That is one thing that they all did pretty good tonight. As for the defense coverage, I agree that they need to take a bit more of a simplistic approach... there are times where they look like a timbits team chasing after the puck.

As for the 2nd powerplay unit, I disagree with you. A couple games ago, everyone was praising Babs and coaching staff for how great that unit was on the PP, now all of a sudden Babcock is dumb for that?? Come on, that line just had a really off night tonight, no need to blame Babs for that. Like I said earlier, there is no reason Babs couldn't have left Pavs and Hank out there the entire PP in the 3rd since the 2nd unit was so bad all night. The Pens and Caps are able to keep their key guys out the entire 2 min, so we can too sometimes.

Another thing that needs to be fixed is the PK. It is simply a disaster! They look so disorganized, its not even funny. The problem is that this season Babs is just throwing out random forwards to kill off penalties, and they never have the same partner- - same for the Dmen. In 2008 our PK was so successful because we had units, and we stuck to them. I dont care what anyone says, our PK is 10 times better when Pavs and Z are on a unit killing it off (it worked then) and they both like to do it. So they should be a unit, along with Helm and Miller/Eaves and Fil/Cleary as the 3rd unit. That way there, each unit has forwards who are used to one another, which will help organize and kill off penalties.

First I made a thread about criticizing Babs 2nd unit a few weeks ago so dont call me on being a flip flop. The thread is entitled WHAT IS BABS THINKING? The umbrella play is retarded and easily beat. They need to stop. That unit being good once or twice out of 8 games is horrific. If we have them out for 4 mins a game and they score once in eight games thats over 30 mins to get one goal, sadly its worse than that.

As far as FOs, we gave up a lot of key ones including draws on PP that killed a ton of time, god I wish we had Drapes still.

As far as the PK, you said it better than I could have and I believe its a micro chasm for the play in general.

Anyone have some optimistic views on our play lately? I know its great that Jimmy had a son and thats awesome but as far as the game goes, I cant see any rays of light after this one and am looking for a way to perk up after this abortion of a run so far.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Cali-Wing-Nut

[Red Wings Addict 787]

f***in' hell... f*** this 3-game losing streak s***.

[Guest Crymson]

As far as the centers are concerned.. LEARN TO TAKE A f***IN DRAW!!!! Seriously, we are horrific on FO's. Sad thing is we normaly turn it over even if we win the face off.

The Wings won 63% of the draws tonight. Is this not good enough for you? Get a grip.

[eva unit zero 271]

Franzen and Hudler floating away tonight.

Hudler was scrapping in corners and made a few noticeable plays to keep the puck in the zone where, had he been floating, it would have been cleared down the ice because of a defenseman out of position.

He wasn't a superstar, but he was one of the better Wings on the ice.

[Cali-Wing-Nut 102]

The Wings won 63% of the draws tonight. Is this not good enough for you? Get a grip.

How many on the PP? How many did we "win" and turn them over right away? Numbers and percentages are just that, what happened is what counts. I can think of three defensive zone FO that "we won" and we turned them over behind our net split seconds after we got "possesion" if you want to call it that.. Getthing the draw and trully controlling it and yanking it to a Shark isnt the same thing although on paper it maybe.

So I have a grip, how bout you watch the game and lay off on the numbers. You sound like middle management material, all metrics and no real world results. We did some ok things but controlling the puck was not one of them espescially after the draw. If Im wrong then the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

I think Jimmy did great except for the break away that I think was a shoot out practice run but oh well. Homer was the highlight of my night, he got screwed but shouldve been at least the 3rd star tonight , Im off to bed

[2probert4 8]

Your Ritola obssession, cute.

Say no more.

Wings still don't drive the net, all teams are doing to us is clogging up in front of their goalie, knowing the shots will be taken from the outside. I'm waiting for the days of Franzen driving the net to return, he seems to disappear more often than not these days. Sharks got bigger and better, and the Wings stood pat. (Painful to admit that) It's obvious that Holland is waiting to see what goes down with the Weber / Suter situation, but the Wings need to get tougher... Not going with the "We need the enforcer" routine (would be nice) but just a player or two who makes it hard to play vs Detroit... Not sure if it's the beginning of Babcock being tuned out by some players, that tends to happen with intense coaches such as Babs, just ask Hitchcock or Scotty Bowman.

[VM1138 1,921]

As far as the centers are concerned.. LEARN TO TAKE A f***IN DRAW!!!! Seriously, we are horrific on FO's. Sad thing is we normaly turn it over even if we win the face off.

The Wings dominated the faceoff circle. That's what makes the loss more frustrating. I think you hit the nail on the head, though about the new system. It takes a while for everyone to get used to a new system, and it's showing. The bad passes are a constant frustration that are costing them games now, and they are chasing the puck way too much. However, the other argument would be, if it's the system, why did it work so well the first 5 games only to fail now?

Wings still don't drive the net, all teams are doing to us is clogging up in front of their goalie, knowing the shots will be taken from the outside. I'm waiting for the days of Franzen driving the net to return, he seems to disappear more often than not these days. Sharks got bigger and better, and the Wings stood pat. (Painful to admit that) It's obvious that Holland is waiting to see what goes down with the Weber / Suter situation, but the Wings need to get tougher... Not going with the "We need the enforcer" routine (would be nice) but just a player or two who makes it hard to play vs Detroit... Not sure if it's the beginning of Babcock being tuned out by some players, that tends to happen with intense coaches such as Babs, just ask Hitchcock or Scotty Bowman.

I'm with you. We need a bonafide power forward right now. Same as last season. Franzen looked like he was returning to his old form, but then everyone crapped the bed the last three games and all the good from the first five just disappeared.

[DRW Dominance 255]

it is only 3 losses so the world isn't gonna end.

however it's clear that we can't beat sj and i would love to see a couple of changes.

i like what miller and eaves do but i would like to see it done by bigger bodies who use those big bodies.

hence bertuzzi leaving (which i know he'll never get traded). franzen does play like a girl and it's frustrating as all hell.

to match up against a team like sj we also need a very good, big defenseman to go against the top line.

i can't stand thorton but he's been killing us these last couple of years and it's hard to admit that.

fact is that we basically have the same team that won in 08 and lost in 09. other teams are getting better while we're getting a little older and kinda going sideways in terms of getting better.

only reason i say all this is that we still have an extremely good team and are not that far off from being the team to beat again.

[Guest Shoreline]

How many on the PP?

I agree with most of what you say (except the weird Republican talk points which are wrong but best for PD) but this is one spiel you need to get off of to avoid looking ridiculous. The Red Wings were 5 for 7 (71.4%) on power play faceoffs, and as others said, they completely dominated the faceoff tonight in every facet, to add, Z going 11 for 11 (100%) for faceoffs in the San Jose end.

The Wings need to simply things, I agree, and get special teams going as far as converting goes. The only reason San Jose was 1/3 and not 3/3 is Jimmy Howard, and the Wings barely mustered any shots on net in their man advantages. They were beaten to loose pucks far too often, the defence was caught flat footed far too often, resulting in numerous breakaways, I do think if the Wings manage to extend this losing streak to 5 or more, they need to start benching players. Hopefully we'll see a different team against the Wild, but it's not favourable to the Wings being on the ass end of a back to back after playing the Sharks.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Shoreline

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Absurd bounces?

More like an absurd post. Stop making childish excuses each time we lose in the playoffs.

According to some people here, we haven't legitimately lost a series in like 8 years.

I am unhappy about the way we're playing, Nightfall.

This is worth repeating. It was bounces. It was the refs. It was that the other team was lucky enough to be healthy. Strange how those are never factors for the other team losing a playoff series to the Wings.

This place has gotten ridiculous. Are we no longer allowed to be unhappy with the way the Wings are playing, unless they're dead last or something? Even when people here criticize the Wings, at least they are actually talking about hockey in a hockey forum, rather than making all the sarcastic and trolling posts that the "real" fans here do.

It's three losses. People want to discuss it. The sky is not falling, but as I said in another thread, with this talented of a roster the Wings will almost certainly make the playoffs, so the prevailing question for the season is "what is different this year? have they improved enough to get past the Sharks?"

It's early yet, but people are looking for a sign that this isn't the same team as last season that took nights off and isn't solid defensively.

More talk about hockey. Less talk about what kind of fan people should be.

Edited October 29, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[SaCkaveli20 275]

I guess all we can do come playoff time is hope SJ loses in the first round

[VM1138 1,921]

This is worth repeating. It was bounces. It was the refs. It was that the other team was lucky enough to be healthy. Strange how those are never factors for the other team losing a playoff series to the Wings.

This place has gotten ridiculous. Are we no longer allowed to be unhappy with the way the Wings are playing, unless they're dead last or something? Even when people here criticize the Wings, at least they are actually talking about hockey in a hockey forum, rather than making all the sarcastic and trolling posts that the "real" fans here do.

It's three losses. People want to discuss it. The sky is not falling, but as I said in another thread, with this talented of a roster the Wings will almost certainly make the playoffs, so the prevailing question for the season is "what is different this year? have they improved enough to get past the Sharks?"

It's early yet, but people are looking for a sign that this isn't the same team as last season that took nights off and isn't solid defensively.

More talk about hockey. Less talk about what kind of fan people should be.

I know it's easy to say that fans just blame the refs every time, but in all honesty, and even over time I haven't cooled on this, the '10 series against the Sharks was the worst reffing ever. The reffing did actually affect the outcome of the crucial games to a ridiculous degree. That series should have gone longer than 5, and probably gone to the Wings.

Last year's series was the Wings own fault. Only one of the games was terribly reffed, and they just blew a tight series fair and square. But I will never let anyone convince me that the Wings lost that '10 series because they were the inferior team or because they choked.

And for the record, this team can clearly beat any team in the league...except for San Jose. Ergo, I think any changes to the team should be made with an eye toward beating San Jose, since their style of play is the only one that can consistently beat the Wings.

Edited October 29, 2011 by VM1138