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why this season will not be different...

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Some thoughts…

Red Wings have now lost 4 in a row and things do not seem to get better. At the beginning of the season Holland, Babs and all the players said that they liked this team.

It is a few seasons now that I think that our team needs a big change. The players don’t change, the way of playing doesn’t change… this is pretty weird. In the same all the other teams are making changes.

In this team we only have 4-5 guys which can make the difference in every game: Lidstrom, Z, Dats and Howie and sometimes Franzen.

All the other guys are simply average NHL players. This team is full of players which play well 1 game and then vanish for the next 3-4 and this is unacceptable (if you want to be a cup contender).

I’m sick of hearing: “this will be Flip’s breakout year”, “Huds is in shape and he will score 70 points”, “Commodore and White are better than Rafalski”, “we lost tonight because we played 2 game in a row and we were tired “ etc.

Kenny Holland should change a little bit his mind. Sometime you need trades to improve a team!!! Hope this will happen soon.

redwingfan19 likes this

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I sincerely doubt Holland will stand pat with the cap space he has.

Getting good pieces to improve the team to get them into the conference finals and later is another story.

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The team could definitely benefit from another $5m individual... Hopefully Holland can get one and not another $2m player instead.

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I wouldn't say the team is chock-full of average players. I'd say most of our players excel at their roles. The problem is what has already been stated: one player plays well one game, then disappears. We needed a consistent second liner sniper and I think we still need that if Franzen isn't going to break out.

I'm not a trade slappy, or even a critic of Holland's. I think it made perfect sense to stand pat for the past few years due to all the injuries not letting us see what we have. I don't count 09 as a failed season, since we should have won the Cup. So really we've only had two bad seasons, one due to a ridiculously bad injury streak, and the second due to general malaise. Holland waited the appropriate amount of time. But now, the same problems are manifesting themselves even worse. If even Datsyuk and Zetterberg are disappearing we could potentially be in trouble.

There's no doubt this team can make playoffs, and it's not the end of the world to lose 4 straight early in the season. But what this team does lack is that thing to push them over the edge. Too complacent. What this team needs is a truly dynamic player. We're very bottom heavy with a talented crew of bottom 6. But honestly I'm beginning to wonder if having to fit Bertuzzi, Cleary, and Homer into lines they don't really help just so they don't sit is starting to have an effect. Each can be a tremendously effective player, but I'm not sure Cleary's admirable work ethic is paying off right now. Perhaps a team with a laziness problem will take Cleary and Flip for a dynamic scoring winger?

Ick, I feel terrible for even suggesting we get rid of Cleary.

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I'd still play around with lighting a fire under a key veteran like Datsyuk or Zetts or Bert by making them a healthy scratch before I'd make a trade.

The talent is there; the finish is missing. A trade says 'You're done here and I don't believe in you.' A healthy scratch is a warning shot a foot over the player's head.

lookalive07 likes this

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I realize he's been such a great story since making the team on a tryout after the lockout, but its hard to ignore how bad Cleary has looked. 2 points in his first 9 games. Zetterberg hasn't looked much better. We definitely had our chances tonight, and ran into a hot goaltender in Harding. That's not an excuse for losing 4 in a row, though. I think we are finally really seeing the effects of an aging core of players. I'm not saying we won't make the playoffs. I think we'll bounce back. Something is definitely not right, though. I will say that the future looks grim, with this looking like it could be Lidstrom's last season. If we look this bad with him back there, how will we look when he isn't? Unless we make a move or two, this team is not a legit Cup contender. That being said, I think we will bounce back and make the playoffs, with this current roster.

In the short term, take someone (Stuart?) out and place Commodore in his place, just to shake it up a little. Kronwall and Stuart have looked sluggish, pinching at the absolute worst times and often getting burned.

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We need Zach Parise. Let's just pray that he makes it to free agency, or we can trade for him at the deadline. But the fact remains that a line of Parise - Datsyuk - Franzen would be absolutely phenomenal and allow Zetterberg to center that second line again.

He's the pure sniper we're missing.

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one - it's far too early to start FREAKING out. take a step back and breathe, please.

two - with regards to the cap space/trade deadline acquisitions. priority #1 is finding our lidstrom replacement. he wasn't on the market this off-season. that's why the cap space still exists. he will be on the market this off-season (weber or suter, most likely). i highly doubt we make an acquisition during the season that prevents us from signing lidstrom's replacement this off-season. so if we do acquire someone, it'll be someone with an expiring contract, or someone that's relatively cheap.

three - we just acquired a new top six super star. his name is gustav nyquist. let's wait and see how he does.

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This team lacks true firepower on the top 6. Dats and Hank are great, but possibly slowing down, and outside of them you don’t have anyone who you can consistently rely on to score. Franzen is streaky, Cleary is injury prone and more of a top 6 filler rather than a legit top 6 forward. Filppula is who he is, a dependable defensive forward who is good for 40 points, whereas Hudler just doesn’t have enough tricks to be a top 6 forward. And then there’s Bertuzzi and Holmstrom, both well past their primes and if they’re in the top 6 we’ve got issues. We need someone with speed and skill, Nyquist is not the answer but he is a start. Get him up here and let him help rejuvenate the group.

Filppula – Datsyuk – Holmstrom

Nyquist – Zetterberg – Franzen

Hudler – Helm – Cleary

Miller – Abdelkader – Eaves

Look at those lines and tell me they aren’t better than what we’re currently rolling with? Also, lets just settle on a bottom 6 and be done with it. One game Abby is centering the 4th then he's a 3rd line winger, one game Eaves is in and then he's scratched (should never be), Holmstrom's in, then out, then on the top line, enough chopping and changing.

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I'm very frustrated with the past 4 Losses especially after going 5-0. That's why I said at the beginning of this season and even before this season began that I didn't have high expectations for this season's team. I'm not saying I'm giving up on them, it's way to early for that. Wings still struggle with a lot of things that they have struggled with the past few seasons. Such as Power Plays, holding leads, and getting production from guys that know how to produce. I hope they can correct these things soon but it may come down to not having a great season this season. I'm still very playoff hopeful don't get me wrong but with all the cap space that we Wings should have next season if they don't add any more cap this season will be just the thing to shake up the team and perhapes point into a new direction that leads to us getting past the 2nd Round of the Playoffs and maybe getting us a Cup VERY SOON. I would love to be wrong and love to see the Wings want to win another Cup with Liddy but I still don't have those expectations for this season.

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Well to be honest, Lidstrom is playing MORE minutes this year and looks just as good and has BY FAR been our best player. So, I would think he will strongly consider coming back for one year. (If we dont win the Cup). Now here is the problem. Nick will not come back if we have this exact same team because too many of the secondary players do not show up and its the same problem all season long with certain players disappearing for bursts of time. Nick will want to see some sort of improvement to the team, and I think he would defs come back for another year the way he is playing. I suggested in another thread that we make some sort of trade involving Semin and Franzen. Both are streaky, yes, but both would have a strong impact on their new teams. Franzen provides the Caps with experience and a goal scorer in Semin's place, and he scores goals in different ways then Semin too. Meanwhile, Semin would provide the Wings with their first sniper since Hossa, along with youth that I think could get this team rolling. We need our team to be rolling so that we have a chance at the Cup, and more importantly, so that Nick wants to come back one more year if we do not get the Cup.

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I wouldn't say the team is chock-full of average players. I'd say most of our players excel at their roles. The problem is what has already been stated: one player plays well one game, then disappears. We needed a consistent second liner sniper and I think we still need that if Franzen isn't going to break out.

I'm not a trade slappy, or even a critic of Holland's. I think it made perfect sense to stand pat for the past few years due to all the injuries not letting us see what we have. I don't count 09 as a failed season, since we should have won the Cup. So really we've only had two bad seasons, one due to a ridiculously bad injury streak, and the second due to general malaise. Holland waited the appropriate amount of time. But now, the same problems are manifesting themselves even worse. If even Datsyuk and Zetterberg are disappearing we could potentially be in trouble.

There's no doubt this team can make playoffs, and it's not the end of the world to lose 4 straight early in the season. But what this team does lack is that thing to push them over the edge. Too complacent. What this team needs is a truly dynamic player. We're very bottom heavy with a talented crew of bottom 6. But honestly I'm beginning to wonder if having to fit Bertuzzi, Cleary, and Homer into lines they don't really help just so they don't sit is starting to have an effect. Each can be a tremendously effective player, but I'm not sure Cleary's admirable work ethic is paying off right now. Perhaps a team with a laziness problem will take Cleary and Flip for a dynamic scoring winger?

Ick, I feel terrible for even suggesting we get rid of Cleary.

200px-Jarome_Iginla._2008.JPG

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

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Maybe Detroit should be more like Toronto and have an annual fire sale, I mean, trades definitely guarantee success.

Don't forget trading your 1st round picks too!

Frozen-Man likes this

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I say we trade datsyuk and zetterberg for Trevor Gilles and then put lidstrom on waivers. That would give us a fresh new look!

Shut the f*** up people

asoras likes this

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. I don't count 09 as a failed season, since we should have won the Cup. So really we've only had two bad seasons, one due to a ridiculously bad injury streak, and the second due to general malaise.

I love this. No other team in the league would consider 2 second round losses failures! :)

Go wings!

Frozen-Man likes this

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I love this. No other team in the league would consider 2 second round losses failures! :)

Go wings!

Every teams goal should be the SC and anything less is failure. I never understood the acceptance of not even getting into the playoffs and if you do get in anything besides winning it all is not acceptable.

As they say, "You play to win the game".

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meh, I'm not even worried. Wings are 9 games in to a long 82 game season. Start slow, strong finish is fine by me. This is just preseason till the real season begins.

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Every teams goal should be the SC and anything less is failure. I never understood the acceptance of not even getting into the playoffs and if you do get in anything besides winning it all is not acceptable.

As they say, "You play to win the game".

There's a difference between "I'm disappointed they didn't win the Cup" and "This was a terrible, unacceptable season."

Ultimately how your sports team of choice does is out of your control; all you can control is how much you choose to appreciate the success they do have. If you choose to declare the season a failure when the team does not win the Cup and to not appreciate the measure of success the Wings had that season, that's really your loss. But I think that such an attitude is really bred by living around success for too long. Fans of many other teams would be thrilled to make the playoffs every year.

Your concept of "acceptance" doesn't have much of a basis, given that you have no control over how the team plays or what the management does. All you can do is watch and choose how you react to what happens.

Edited by Crymson

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I love this. No other team in the league would consider 2 second round losses failures! :)

except the capitals

and the penguins

and the canucks

and the sharks

and any other team that goes into those seasons as a legitimate cup contender

Edited by stinky fish taco
dragonballgtz and GMRwings1983 like this

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I don't think we need a massive firesale or anything but there is a few things I'd like to see. For now it's simple things just to win a few, like change the lines...

Flippula-Datsyuk-Hudler

Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunnstrom (really wish he could have got that shot but fingers crossed he clears waivers today)

Bertuzzi-Helm-Abdelkader

Cleary-Emmerton-Eaves

Lidstrom-White (sometimes white trys to make the play too often then just passing to Lids-Ian just pass it to Lids)

Kronwall-Kindl

Ericsson-Stuart (I know Stuart isn't a bottom two guy but I'd rather him with Big E)

Along with these lines I think this whole "bring me a new idea everyday" thing needs to be altered a little, because their idea's appear to be lacking...I don't really know what's going on behind the scenes but Babs needs to (and will) step up and f*** the s*** out of this team-take that however you want. Fix the power play sometimes we look retarted out there, and it is our "enforcer" after all. Stop the pinching D some of these pinching plays are set freakin plays for gosh sakes and there burning us.

Holland will need to pull the trigger on something, most people on hear knew we needed a top six scorer last year and this hasn't changed. I still don't think we will see a fire sale but someone needs to come in and we need room for them so time will tell who that will be. This will come later in the season, for know Babs and his boys better start to put up some wins and give Holland some damn time here before our hole is too deep. Howard will be very important yet again this year. Hold on kids...

lil Wing's fan likes this

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Line juggling can only take a team so far. It won't change the fundamental problems the team has faced the last couple of seasons. I agree that a firesale is unnecessary. But at this point what will really help the team more than line juggling is a bona fide second line scorer. Or even a 1st line scorer to round out Datsyuk and Z's line.

13dangledangle likes this

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Line juggling can only take a team so far. It won't change the fundamental problems the team has faced the last couple of seasons. I agree that a firesale is unnecessary. But at this point what will really help the team more than line juggling is a bona fide second line scorer. Or even a 1st line scorer to round out Datsyuk and Z's line.

I do agree with you 100 percent that juggling only takes you so far. What I was trying to say was Holland isn't getting anyone to lace em up tomorrow night so for now we must use the cards in our hand, but bab's has been frustrating to watch at times by his odd juggling, scratching Eaves, overplaying Miller (he plays hard but has NO finish at all), not playing Bruno-not to mention his umbrella pp...I freakin' love Babs but recently it's been like watching someone trying to play chess but just they keep playing checkers.

lil Wing's fan likes this

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No, no, no....let's continue to be enamored with average/good players who show up one out of five games, or look "real good" in Traverse City, or played real well for us in Grand Rapids, or have had one solid season out of the last four, or they were on the roster when we won the cup. Lets continue to say how great they are becuase they do charity work in the community, or someone met them and they were "really cool guys". Let's make sure our fan base is so blinded by these facts that their individual play night-in, night-out is the last thing we question. "I really hope Brunstrom clears waivers because he'll be great"....really??? ok, this from a few pre-season games....whatever. If that's what we're hoping to take us to the 3rd round, SCF, win a cup....then we as a fan base need to re-evaluate.

What a silly notion to hold a player accountable to the Red Wing way of winning damn near every night. At least in the past if we didn't win, effort was not the question. I think Stevie Y. would have a lot of problems with what is going on in the front office, behind the bench, and in the locker room. How about instilling one of the greatest motivators of all time: fear. Fear that if you don't produce, this country club exsitence know as the Wings is over (I mean country club in a good way and the way the Wings treat our players...from the tailored private jet to and from every game, to giving players a window of days off due to personal reasons/having children, being treated like movie stars around town, to the high end Illitch Xmas party, etc...the list goes on and on). How about if the Wings are such a "great organization" to play for, go out every night and play with maximum effort or else you're gone. How about "To whom much is given, much is expected". Seems like we are giving a lot to these players, and making excuses when they don't perform as expected. "I think this will be a break out year for Fil", "When Franzy's healthy he will do x", "Huds has been working real hard over the summer and looks in great shape", "We really liked Ian White in San Jose, we think he'll be good for us" (which is BS because Babs badly wanted Brent Burns), "Z is getting good opportunities, puck luck just isn't with him right now and nothing's going in" (bunch of bs...the pucks aren't going in because the shots aren't good enough to get passed the goalie), "Homer won't play in back to back games" (because he's old),"Pav is getting better and creating a lot of offense", "Abby has been one of our best players" (really???, your 3rd/4th liner is your best player....that's a problem) , "I think the Bert line has been the best line thus year", (yeah, except they can't put the puck in the net and run around behind the net and in the corners...places where it's impossible to score from).

Just to be more specific, I think Stevie Y. would be tempted to want to throttle Franzen and the way he floats around the ice, and skates through plays if he's not wide open or has to battle in the corners for the puck....and then is always yapping at the other team or refs. He's like a combination of Lang and Maltby...he shows up every so often, but runs his mouth constantly (so yes, he's lazy and he sucks, and has a big mouth). I digress.

Yes, it's very early in the season. But regardless of the scoreboard/record, we don't look right at all. Obviously I'm very frustrated. We are HockeyTown, the best place to place professional hockey on the planet. We need our players to start playing like they never want to play anywhere else every night. We need our fans to start demanding more. How about this.....F@$k you Franzen, show up every night or get to packing.

Go Wings

Edited by Learn2LuvIt
haroldsnepsts likes this

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