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stevkrause

Anyone else worried about Kronner?

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He needed help getting off the ice after the elbow from Koivu (the one that ultimately led to the game losing goal) and it has me a bit concerned... losing him to a concussion for any period of time right now, is the absolute last thing we need...

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Wouldn't we have heard something by now if he was concussed?

And just quietly, he's actually been playing this season like he has a bit of the ol' concussion...

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It wasn't an elbow.

Is there video? I missed the game last night.

Not that it matters whether it was an elbow or not in terms of whether we should worry about him.

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And just quietly, he's actually been playing this season like he has a bit of the ol' concussion...

It wasn't an elbow.

stole my responses. good work.

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It wasn't an elbow.

Okay so technically it was the elbow pad. Otherwise I am not sure what you were watching. You dont fall over and need help up after a chest to back hit.

That dazed look in his eye wasnt from his hurt pride. It was from the knock he took on the chin.

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here it is right at the start of the video

its the best i can find

Edited by ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24

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That angle sucks, there was a much better one. I remember thinking it was an elbow, then on the reverse angle you can see it wasn't really. I think something hit his head though and it sure looks like Koivu gets the elbow up, just not sure if there was contact with the elbow or not.

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Here is a better angle. I don't think it's suspension worthy, but there is no doubt Koivu knew what he was doing. He played the man before the puck, the same thing Bert got called on a few games ago that they let slide on more than one occasion in this game. Immediately prior to the Miller penalty was one, there was another one I remember that was identical to Bert's the other game too. Koivu wasn't protecting the puck, he crouches down and jumps up into the hit with his back, leaving his feet. How many times do you see a player leave his feet while protecting the puck they haven't begun to play yet?

Edited by rrasco

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He needed help getting off the ice after the elbowshoulder/back hit from Koivu (the one that ultimately led to the game losing goal) and it has me a bit concerned... losing him to a concussion for any period of time right now, is the absolute last thing we need...

Fixed

That angle sucks, there was a much better one. I remember thinking it was an elbow, then on the reverse angle you can see it wasn't really. I think something hit his head though and it sure looks like Koivu gets the elbow up, just not sure if there was contact with the elbow or not.

It wasn't his elbow that got Kronwall. What got him was the back of his shoulder, what made it look like his elbow got him was the follow up. Look at TSN's highlights of the game.

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It wasn't his elbow that got Kronwall. What got him was the back of his shoulder, what made it look like his elbow got him was the follow up. Look at TSN's highlights of the game.

Agreed. No elbow. A reckless play in my opinion b/c Koivu left his feet and knew exactly what he was doing, but who gives a s*** what I think.

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Fixed

It wasn't his elbow that got Kronwall. What got him was the back of his shoulder, what made it look like his elbow got him was the follow up. Look at TSN's highlights of the game.

Agreed.

The jump made it look worse but honestly this is the same kind of hit Datsyuk used to do. He's sense someone coming to hit him, so he'd put on the brakes an initiate contact, often catching them by surprised. Kronwall definitely got surprised.

And what the hell was Zetterberg doing there? I can't remember, was he at the end of shift or something? because that's awful defense, especially from him.

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Crosby has a concussion and the Pens are doing just fine.

We'll just have to tough it out without him, if there is an injury. Call up Smith or dress Commodore.

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Agreed.

The jump made it look worse but honestly this is the same kind of hit Datsyuk used to do. He's sense someone coming to hit him, so he'd put on the brakes an initiate contact, often catching them by surprised. Kronwall definitely got surprised.

And what the hell was Zetterberg doing there? I can't remember, was he at the end of shift or something? because that's awful defense, especially from him.

Z was in no mans land. He was going to get burned no matter what he did. He could of stayed between Koivu and Setoguchi and taken away that passing lane but even them it looked like the defensmen was moving up. Koivu would've just past to him instead of Setoguchi.

Edited by dragonballgtz

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I didn't think it was an elbow. I also don't have a problem with a player sensing another player behind him and initiating contact before he is hit. What I didn't like about the play was:

1. I thought Koivu initiated contact early

2. Shoulder or not the principle point of contact was Kronwall's head; and,

3. if you look at the ref by the net he is yelling at the players in front of the net instead of watching the puck (which for the low referee is his job).

ami and Rick D like this

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Z was in no mans land. He was going to get burned no matter what he did. He could of stayed between Koivu and Setoguchi and taken away that passing lane but even them it looked like the defensmen was moving up. Koivu would've just past to him instead of Setoguchi.

Yeah, it was mainly the move where he put his stick on the ice and knelt down. That looked like the move of a guy who's out of gas, because Koivu was in way too good of a scoring position for that to ever be a good idea.

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I didn't think it was an elbow. I also don't have a problem with a player sensing another player behind him and initiating contact before he is hit. What I didn't like about the play was:

1. I thought Koivu initiated contact early

2. Shoulder or not the principle point of contact was Kronwall's head; and,

3. if you look at the ref by the net he is yelling at the players in front of the net instead of watching the puck (which for the low referee is his job).

I see no problem whatsoever with what Koivu did. In response to your problems:

1. Contact wasn't early, in fact, Kronwall got a light tap on Koivu with his stick (too light to call it a slash)

2. I'm not sure how you can use the principle point of contact argument here when he wasn't even looking in that direction

3. Maybe you right here, the ref was definately preoccupied with what was going on in front of the net, but even if he was following the puck, I think it would be highly unlikely that he would have called a penalty. The back ref probably saw it and didn't have a problem with it. Not sure who is responsible for what, I don't ref, but I would have though that the back ref would follow the puck and the ref down low would focus on the net area.

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I see no problem whatsoever with what Koivu did. In response to your problems:

1. Contact wasn't early, in fact, Kronwall got a light tap on Koivu with his stick (too light to call it a slash)

2. I'm not sure how you can use the principle point of contact argument here when he wasn't even looking in that direction

3. Maybe you right here, the ref was definately preoccupied with what was going on in front of the net, but even if he was following the puck, I think it would be highly unlikely that he would have called a penalty. The back ref probably saw it and didn't have a problem with it. Not sure who is responsible for what, I don't ref, but I would have though that the back ref would follow the puck and the ref down low would focus on the net area.

While I don't think the hit to the head is suspendable and shouldn't be, the rules don't specifically say the player has to be looking at their target or have any intent to make contact with the head at all. To be suspension worthy, it simply has to be a reckless play where the principal point of contact is the head. The onus is on the hitter, looking or not. Which in that case, could be considered more reckless since Koivu has no idea where the point of contact is going to be. Not to mention he went high on the hit by leaving his feet. He knew that much, that's for sure.

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I see no problem whatsoever with what Koivu did. In response to your problems:

1. Contact wasn't early, in fact, Kronwall got a light tap on Koivu with his stick (too light to call it a slash)

2. I'm not sure how you can use the principle point of contact argument here when he wasn't even looking in that direction

3. Maybe you right here, the ref was definately preoccupied with what was going on in front of the net, but even if he was following the puck, I think it would be highly unlikely that he would have called a penalty. The back ref probably saw it and didn't have a problem with it. Not sure who is responsible for what, I don't ref, but I would have though that the back ref would follow the puck and the ref down low would focus on the net area.

1. Personally, relative to interference penalties of this nature we've seen in the past, I thought it was early. You may disagree and that's cool but as I noted i nmy first post I thought it was early.

2. I'm not saying it was supension worthy just because the principle point of contact was the head but as we have seen throughout this year that the player making the hit is responsible for the contact. Also, Koivu initiated the contact fully knowing Kronwall was behind him. Koivu knew where Kronwall was and made the hit accordingly. We've seen hit to the head minor penalties handed out this year and to me, that was one as well.

3. The ref down low is supposed to follow the puck so that he can track it as it comes towards the net. The second referee was initially instituted (at least in part) because penalties were being missed in front of the net while refs were tracking the puck. It is the job of the down low ref to track the puck and the neutral zone ref to watch other infractions (mainly in front of the net).

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While I don't think the hit to the head is suspendable and shouldn't be, the rules don't specifically say the player has to be looking at their target or have any intent to make contact with the head at all. To be suspension worthy, it simply has to be a reckless play where the principal point of contact is the head. The onus is on the hitter, looking or not. Which in that case, could be considered more reckless since Koivu has no idea where the point of contact is going to be. Not to mention he went high on the hit by leaving his feet. He knew that much, that's for sure.

You do have a point from a literal sense of the rule, but I have a hard time thinking they would ever have a problem with a hit like that.

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You do have a point from a literal sense of the rule, but I have a hard time thinking they would ever have a problem with a hit like that.

Agreed. However, if the rule can't be interpreted literally, how can it be interpreted at all?

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Agreed. However, if the rule can't be interpreted literally, how can it be interpreted at all?

Well, I'm sure if I looked at the actual written rules, I could argue why the contact is a non-issue, I just haven't taken the time to do that.

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