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What's up with Datsyuk


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#41 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:28 AM

Not really.


Yeah this post you made right here showed me that you're not like most enforcer fans:

I am a big fan of fighting as you all know.

However, these North American goons that went to Vityaz are af****** disgrace to their professions and I've had enough of their s***. An enforcer's job is to protect his teammates and go after players that need to be put in their place. NOT to pick on guys for no reason, especially players who are not fighters and can't defend themselves. It's just bully tactics which have no purpose to them.

This is the worst kind of spotpicking BS I've ever seen and it's been going on for years now. Have these players forgotten what the code is? Gratton, Verot, Sugden, that retard Mirasty, Yablonski, Brennan, etc. These guys are all on my permanent hate list for their behavior the last couple of seasons. Are they too dickless to play in North America anymore, so they have to go to Russia to fight skilled players?

And how about their coach Andrei Nazarov. The big Russian ***** who always got his ass kicked in the NHL, and now he's overcompensating for it by instructing his goons to pick on non-fighters for no reason. What an *******.

The weird thing about Vityaz is their GM, none other than Alexei Zhamnov. He was a skilled player his whole career, so I'm surprised he's allowing this garbage.

Sorry for the language.



#42 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:59 AM

True. I personally wouldn't trade our success for fights, nor would I give up a hot scorer for a fighter, but it's fun to dream about guys like Mac and Probie.

One tough guy can fill a 4th line position and not be a detriment to the team.

Most of what we enforcer slappies dream of is just that- a dream. The rules have changed so that we can't have it any more anyway. But it's fun to reminisce, and to dream.

Wait... what do you mean? We have Drew Miller don't we? He loves to take a face wash :P

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#43 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:49 AM

I feel like Pav took a step forward last night in terms of getting back to the level of impact he wants to have on an every game basis. Played well defensively and had some close calls offensively. It's as if he's right there ready to breakout like no other.

#44 Scott Stevens

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:17 AM

I feel like Pav took a step forward last night in terms of getting back to the level of impact he wants to have on an every game basis. Played well defensively and had some close calls offensively. It's as if he's right there ready to breakout like no other.



As long as Datsyuk is paired with Holmstrom 5 on 5, he will not have a breakout unless he gets power play points. Holmstrom is an anchor 5 on 5. If the coach gets another guy on his line that can open up space for Pavs, then he will excel. Right now, he's hamstrung by a 36 year old, non-threat, slow winger. It's the next thing up from playing on the pk out there for Datsyuk.

#45 sleepwalker

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:45 AM

I feel like Pav took a step forward last night in terms of getting back to the level of impact he wants to have on an every game basis. Played well defensively and had some close calls offensively. It's as if he's right there ready to breakout like no other.


I don't know... He still had a few moves that for someone like him should have been simple, but he failed to complete or lost the puck. I think he tweaked his wrist during the summer and is trying to just play through it. The way he looks out there, its like there is something physical holding him back, not mental.

#46 Anijuice

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:31 PM

He definitely has improved since last game in his offense, but he's still not quite there. Saw a few more uncharacteristic giveaways, and he has been awesome on defense.

#47 Reds4Life

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:02 PM

Datsyuk has no wingers to play with.
Cleary has very poor goalscoring ability and Homer is good only on PP.
We could really use better wingers.

#48 GoWings1905

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:10 PM

Datsyuk has no wingers to play with.
Cleary has very poor goalscoring ability and Homer is good only on PP.
We could really use better wingers.


Right now, I would say that's fairly obvious. As a general statement though, I disagree. Cleary is streaky like Franzen, but he was still second on the team in goals last year. I have said in other threads I would prefer Filppula on Datsyuk's wing -- at least until Cleary gets healthy -- because I do think that is affecting Cleary quite a bit so far.

Edited by GoWings1905, 12 November 2011 - 01:11 PM.

 
 
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#49 Reds4Life

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

Right now, I would say that's fairly obvious. As a general statement though, I disagree. Cleary is streaky like Franzen, but he was still second on the team in goals last year. I have said in other threads I would prefer Filppula on Datsyuk's wing -- at least until Cleary gets healthy -- because I do think that is affecting Cleary quite a bit so far.


Cleary has 141 goals in 760 NHL games (100 goals in 431 games as a Red Wing), which makes him a poor goalscorer. He is not a good top6 player. Datsyuk deserves to play with better wingers. Simple as that.

Edited by Reds4Life, 12 November 2011 - 09:22 PM.


#50 under_par_00

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:15 PM

It seems like Dats is being used in a more defensive role right now, playing with Cleary and Holmstrom. Although it is a scoring line, those wingers are not going to chip in much 5 on 5. Datsyuk is just relying on his strong 2-way play to make positive contributions to the team, even though he will not light it up with a 100 point season on that line.

It seems like Babs is using the Fil-Z-Franzen line as the top scoring threat. Datsyuk certainly can shut down any 2nd line in the league and still contribute a good amount of points.

It's still ok for the team to win, but I'm a little upset I took Datsyuk in the 2nd or 3rd round in fantasy, when he is not being used in an offensive role. I mean, look at that power play line of CLeary - Datsyuk - Holmstrom! It is so weak. Thank God for Lidstrom.

It seems like Dats is being used in a more defensive role right now, playing with Cleary and Holmstrom. Although it is a scoring line, those wingers are not going to chip in much 5 on 5. Datsyuk is just relying on his strong 2-way play to make positive contributions to the team, even though he will not light it up with a 100 point season on that line.

It seems like Babs is using the Fil-Z-Franzen line as the top scoring threat. Datsyuk certainly can shut down any 2nd line in the league and still contribute a good amount of points.

It's still ok for the team to win, but I'm a little upset I took Datsyuk in the 2nd or 3rd round in fantasy, when he is not being used in an offensive role. I mean, look at that power play line of CLeary - Datsyuk - Holmstrom! It is so weak. Thank God for Lidstrom.

#51 wings_fanatic

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:34 PM

Once again I will state, this largely comes down to poor coaching by Mike Babcock. Why would a coach put DAN CLEARY wit Pavel Datsyk?? Cleary is not a sniper... all the goals he scores are crappy goals from bad angles or rebounds (Homer's role). Last night, Pavs had all the nice moves, but Cleary had no idea what to do while Pavs was doing his thing. Cleary is a very very good 3rd line player, but nothing more. IF we want to continue to see success, Mike Babcock has got to put a guy that can score goals on a line with Pavs.

#52 under_par_00

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

Once again I will state, this largely comes down to poor coaching by Mike Babcock. Why would a coach put DAN CLEARY wit Pavel Datsyk?? Cleary is not a sniper... all the goals he scores are crappy goals from bad angles or rebounds (Homer's role). Last night, Pavs had all the nice moves, but Cleary had no idea what to do while Pavs was doing his thing. Cleary is a very very good 3rd line player, but nothing more. IF we want to continue to see success, Mike Babcock has got to put a guy that can score goals on a line with Pavs.


I fully agree, but the problem is who? Right now, Fil - Z - Franzen will not be broken up, and either Filppula or Franzen would help out Datsyuk much more than Cleary or Homer. It's like Babcock is sticking our best top 6 forward (Datsyuk) and trying to rig together a scoring line with the 2 worst top 6 forwards. Actually, I could argue that Cleary and Homer are both not top 6 forwards. Bertuzzi might be better served in that role.

Or dare I say it, Hudler :hehe:

#53 GoWings1905

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:02 PM

Cleary has 141 goals in 760 NHL games (100 goals in 431 games as a Red Wing), which makes him a poor goalscorer. He is not a good top6 player. Datsyuk deserves to player with better wingers. Simple as that.


Poor isn't the right word. He had 26 goals for the second highest scoring team in the league last season. I don't disagree with you about Datsyuk needing a different winger at the moment, as I even stated in my last post I prefer Filppula on his line. That being said, who else is "better" in that role that the Red Wings have on their roster? Hudler is the only real option and Babcock doesn't seem willing to give him consistent top-six minutes. Bertuzzi clearly doesn't belong on the top two lines and everyone else on the team definitely is only suited for the third and fourth lines.

It's easy to say Cleary isn't a top-six forward when things aren't going well for him. No one besides the dude here that always ******* about Cleary was complaining last season when he played a ton of time with both Datsyuk and Zetterberg and produced fine. The fact is the Red Wings don't have a legitimate sniper, which is why they scored six goals in six games. It isn't as "simple" as you stated just for the sheer fact the Red Wings don't have a goal-scoring winger to just put on Datsyuk's wing, so they have to deal with the streakiness that comes from Franzen, Cleary and Filppula instead.
 
 
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#54 Crymson

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:42 PM

Cleary has 141 goals in 760 NHL games (100 goals in 431 games as a Red Wing), which makes him a poor goalscorer. He is not a good top6 player. Datsyuk deserves to player with better wingers. Simple as that.


Cleary didn't score in his first season here. He's averaged over 20 goals per season during the four seasons since, even having missed significant time for injuries. He's an above-average goal-scorer, not a poor one.

Edited by Crymson, 12 November 2011 - 05:42 PM.


#55 number9

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:13 PM

whats up with zetterberg? whats up with datsyuk? whats up with these threads? I'm eagerly awaiting the whats up with Lidstrom thread.........why isnt he skating 100mph? why doesnt he have 70 pts yet?

#56 Kira

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:12 PM

You know what? I don't think Pasha is really concerned about whether he scores a ton of goals right now, as long as the team is winning. We've improved the goals against stat considerably so far (5th as opposed to 26th last year), and you have to admit the defense has been kicking ass...including someone stealing pucks as per usual. And besides, he's always said he prefers to pass rather than score goals, so hey, if it ain't broke, don't screw with it. Yeah, I'd love to see him score more goals, but I'm perfectly content to take what I get.
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#57 Scott Stevens

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:41 AM

Cleary didn't score in his first season here. He's averaged over 20 goals per season during the four seasons since, even having missed significant time for injuries. He's an above-average goal-scorer, not a poor one.



Finally, some logic. The only thing Cleary is a little weak at is carrying the puck. He's an excellent corner guy, has a good amount of speed, and can score 20+ goals on a second line. The OVERLY CLEAR problem is TOMAS FREAKING HOLMSTROM. It cannot be any more obvious. This guy is 5 years past his usefulness, and the only purpose he serves is to stand in front of the goalie on the power play. During 5 on 5 play, he drags down the center he plays with. He's not fast, he's not a good stick handler, and he's not a good passer. Datsyuk and Cleary are basically on the pk all game with Holmstrom on their line. For some reason though, Babcock thinks he's Mike Bossy.

#58 Yzermania

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:43 AM

Finally, some logic. The only thing Cleary is a little weak at is carrying the puck. He's an excellent corner guy, has a good amount of speed, and can score 20+ goals on a second line. The OVERLY CLEAR problem is TOMAS FREAKING HOLMSTROM. It cannot be any more obvious. This guy is 5 years past his usefulness, and the only purpose he serves is to stand in front of the goalie on the power play. During 5 on 5 play, he drags down the center he plays with. He's not fast, he's not a good stick handler, and he's not a good passer. Datsyuk and Cleary are basically on the pk all game with Holmstrom on their line. For some reason though, Babcock thinks he's Mike Bossy.


I think Mike Bossy might be a few years past his prime as well.

#59 kipwinger

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

whats up with zetterberg? whats up with datsyuk? whats up with these threads? I'm eagerly awaiting the whats up with Lidstrom thread.........why isnt he skating 100mph? why doesnt he have 70 pts yet?


Don't be such a princess about it. The point of the original post was not to say Datsyuk was bad, or even to ***** about his production. I was wondering if he were still recovering from injury or something because the moves he was making and the speed with which he were making them didn't seem very "Datsyukian". I think that was pretty straight forward from the start.

With the exception of a handful of people on this site, every single post on every single thread just devolves to people bitching about whoever isn't playing up to their expectations, or else someone (like the guy I'm responding to here) being overly reactionary and acting as if I'd just dick slapped Datsyuk in the face.

The question was simple, stick to the topics, start a new post, and get over yourselves.

Edited by kipwinger, 13 November 2011 - 03:11 PM.

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#60 number9

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:38 AM

Don't be such a princess about it. The point of the original post was not to say Datsyuk was bad, or even to ***** about his production. I was wondering if he were still recovering from injury or something because the moves he was making and the speed with which he were making them didn't seem very "Datsyukian". I think that was pretty straight forward from the start.

With the exception of a handful of people on this site, every single post on every single thread just devolves to people bitching about whoever isn't playing up to their expectations, or else someone (like the guy I'm responding to here) being overly reactionary and acting as if I'd just dick slapped Datsyuk in the face.

The question was simple, stick to the topics, start a new post, and get over yourselves.


You nailed it on the head for me, my prince in shining armor.

There is nothing wrong with Datsyuk. I've seen plenty of fantastic dekes out of him this season. He's a 33 year old hockey player and he's HUMAN.... So stop dick slapping his face lol

Edit: don't take things so personally dude. The point of my original post was that there is a "whats up with zetterberg?" and a "whats up with datsyuk?" thread going on right now, which is just typical LGW ridiculousness (bring on the negs baby!). So chill bro ;)

Edited by number9, 14 November 2011 - 02:43 AM.






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