43 replies to this topic

[unsaddleddonald]

Claiming the Wings need more youth is the most over used sentiment in hockey these days...well, that and the Wings are going to take a big step back this year.

Take a look at the ages of several current roster players:
Filppula 27
Hudler 27
White 27
Miller 27
Eaves 27
Helm 24
Abdelkader 24
Kindl 24
Emmerton 23
Brunnstrom 26
Ericsson 27

Some of these guys are regulars and others may be fringe players but working towards trying to become regulars. But the fact that people like to claim that the Wings need more youth in their line up need to take a minute and think before they just spit out canned responses to try and sound hockey smart.

Also, if you had Smith on this roster instead of Commodore, which I'm neither for or against, think about the situation we'd be in right now as White has gotten hurt. You'd see a line up of:

Lidstrom - Ericsson
Kronwall - Kindl
Stuart - Smith

That's three inexperienced defensemen - no matter which pairings you choose. At least Commodore brings experience and is a bit of a reclamation project that potentially could work out well despite his lack of speed.


This is exactly what you'd like to see from a 6/7 guy. The only thing he has done badly that has stuck out to me was last night's delay of game penalty.

Considering he's only played 3 games now I think he's looked fine. Also, to the OP complaining he only played 6:40 that was because the Wings spent 15 full minutes on the PP. Commodore is averaging 10:14 TOI per game. Here's a breakdown of his TOI this season:

Nov 15 '11 DET @ STL 6:40
Nov 5 '11 ANA @ DET 13:06
Nov 3 '11 CGY @ DET 10:57

That looks pretty good to me - what a 6/7 d-man should be playing.

Regarding your youth movement argument, i agree for the most part. My issue isn't that significant, but the fact is is that most of our youth is expendable or in other words they are simply role players. The first two, Hudler and Filppula, are, in my eyes, underachivers at best. Nothing needs to be said about Hudler that hasn't already been said and Filppula can have his moments but he drives me crazy when most of the time he decides to shoot it is his "patented" pull the puck in close to his skates and use the defender as a screen shot. Our best scorers are 30+, and while they aren't THAT old, it is a little bit disconcerning that we haven't had a bona fide (zetterberg/datsyuk type) young stud come by in a while. I realize that they don't grow on trees, but still. I know of all the prospects we have and their potential. Here is hoping that Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, and Jurco turn out to be those guys.

[ogreslayer]

No. Columbus didn't even want him last year.

And a huge part of the reason for that, and why no other team claimed him on waivers, was the ridiculous contract Columbus signed him to. At the price Kenny signed him for, I think there would be a pretty good chance some team would claim him at least on re-entry waivers seeing as how they would only be on the hook for 50% of his salary. I'm pretty sure there are enough teams out there who need help on the blue line that would take a chance on Commodore on re-entry waivers for $500k.

[2probert4]

I hope Commodore plays when Tootoo time comes around... He won't be as willing to buzz around...

[mjlegend]

I'm almost hoping another one of the defencemen not named Lidstrom or Kronwall gets hurt for a few weeks so we can see more of what Commodore can bring.

Because that's pretty much what it's going to take to see him more consistently in the lineup.

[Konnan511]

With White hurt and Smith done with his suspension, it's time to play Smith. If it were Big E or Stuart injured, I'd rather have Commie in

[mmamolo]

Regarding your youth movement argument, i agree for the most part. My issue isn't that significant, but the fact is is that most of our youth is expendable or in other words they are simply role players. The first two, Hudler and Filppula, are, in my eyes, underachivers at best. Nothing needs to be said about Hudler that hasn't already been said and Filppula can have his moments but he drives me crazy when most of the time he decides to shoot it is his "patented" pull the puck in close to his skates and use the defender as a screen shot. Our best scorers are 30+, and while they aren't THAT old, it is a little bit disconcerning that we haven't had a bona fide (zetterberg/datsyuk type) young stud come by in a while. I realize that they don't grow on trees, but still. I know of all the prospects we have and their potential. Here is hoping that Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, and Jurco turn out to be those guys.

I can understand wanting a stud player who is 25ish but those players don't come around very often. Add to the fact the Wings seldomnly have a top 20 first round choice it's almost impossible to get a player like that. I just think it's inaccurate for people to say the Wings need to infuse their line up with more youth, because they already have done that, when what they really mean is they want a 25 year all-star.

But hey, I'm not saying I don't want a 25 year old all-starr either

[esteef]

Commie is the new Lilja.

esteef

[55fan]

Commie is the new Lilja.

esteef

<snort> Not even close.

Commie is a 6:4 guy.

Lilja will killja.

[cusimano_brothers]

Brick House.

[Yak19]

Claiming the Wings need more youth is the most over used sentiment in hockey these days...well, that and the Wings are going to take a big step back this year.

Take a look at the ages of several current roster players:
Filppula 27
Hudler 27
White 27
Miller 27
Eaves 27
Helm 24
Abdelkader 24
Kindl 24
Emmerton 23
Brunnstrom 26
Ericsson 27




Some of these guys are regulars and others may be fringe players but working towards trying to become regulars. But the fact that people like to claim that the Wings need more youth in their line up need to take a minute and think before they just spit out canned responses to try and sound hockey smart.

Also, if you had Smith on this roster instead of Commodore, which I'm neither for or against, think about the situation we'd be in right now as White has gotten hurt. You'd see a line up of:

Lidstrom - Ericsson
Kronwall - Kindl
Stuart - Smith

That's three inexperienced defensemen - no matter which pairings you choose. At least Commodore brings experience and is a bit of a reclamation project that potentially could work out well despite his lack of speed.


This is exactly what you'd like to see from a 6/7 guy. The only thing he has done badly that has stuck out to me was last night's delay of game penalty.

Considering he's only played 3 games now I think he's looked fine. Also, to the OP complaining he only played 6:40 that was because the Wings spent 15 full minutes on the PP. Commodore is averaging 10:14 TOI per game. Here's a breakdown of his TOI this season:

Nov 15 '11 DET @ STL 6:40
Nov 5 '11 ANA @ DET 13:06
Nov 3 '11 CGY @ DET 10:57

That looks pretty good to me - what a 6/7 d-man should be playing.

players should be peeking at the 27-30 age range that is not considered youth bub, maybe you should take your own advice before posting

besides Abdelkader Kindl Helm and Emmerton there is not enough youth


youth would be considered 25 and under

Craig Smith 22 - 14pts
Nugent-Hopkins 18 - 14pts
Luke Adam 21 - 13pts
Cody Hodgson 21 - 8pts
Landeskog 18 - 8pts
Coturier 18 - 8pts

also Roman Horak, Ryan Johansen, Stephane Da Costa and Colin Greening have produced


NJ has thrown Adam Henrique into their lineup and look how he has done

and most of the names i mentioned were not 1st round picks

Edited by Yak19, 16 November 2011 - 03:49 PM.

[brett]

I thought he was brought in for his shot blocking and his size. Penalty killing and a shut down defense men. But if hes only playing 7 mins yeah i dont know

[Tim.D]

Looks like Smith might be in for him tomorrow.

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- It appears that defenseman Brendan Smith will make his NHL debut for the Detroit Red Wings Thursday against the San Jose Sharks at HP Pavilion (10:30 p.m., Fox Sports Net Detroit).

Smith practiced like he was going to play -- paired with Niklas Kronwall at even strength and with Nicklas Lidstrom at the point on the first power-play unit. Smith spoke after practice like he was going to play.

But coach Mike Babcock was coy about it, somewhat.

“I'll decide in the morning,'' Babcock said.

Smith finished serving his five-game NHL suspension on Tuesday.

“We think he's an NHL player. He's got to play, we got to find out. There's no better place than here,'' Babcock said. "It's always a good building to play in. They're a good team. You play against real good players.

"We had him with Kronwall today, so that means he'd be in a match-up either with (Joe) Thornton and (Patrick) Marleau, if it's (like) the last game or Thornton and (Logan) Couture. Those are six real good forwards you'll be playing against, so good for him.''

Smith likely would replace Mike Commodore in the lineup.


The Red Wings, not surprisingly, worked extensively on the power play during practice, after going 0 for 6, failing to score in 15 minutes of time on the man-advantage, in Tuesday's 2-1 loss at St. Louis.

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

I'm pretty much done with him because he hasn't provided any energy. No good hits, no fights (especially last night when we could've used a few), and few shot blocks. There were much grittier and comparable defenceman to Commodore on the UFA market who'd actually defend their teammates. Yes he's only played a couple of games, BUT THATS THE POINT. If you wanna stay in, do what it takes to stay in. He hasn't and when we're healthier I expect him to be sitting quite a bit.

[jollymania]

Commodore has been garbage, even when you only play 6 minutes you have to play your role and add a physical presence. He even has some useless PIMS.

[Heaten]

Have you seen Smith play? He's not ready for the NHL. He's prone to committing bad penalties that deflates the team's momentum. He's prone to making bone headed defensive plays (worse than Ericsson), and he's a giveaway machine when pressured.

Smith should have a bright future as a Kronwall 2.0 someday, but right now he's extremely overrated by Red Wings fans. I had the pleasure of watching him in GR and I usually notice him out there when he's skating to the penalty box.

Smith isn't going to bring anything to the team right now... and he needs to play top minutes... not sit on the bench for 16-18 minutes a period in the NHL

[13dangledangle]

I believe we brought him in because...back when we signed him there was talk of Babs and Commy not liking each other but it was Babs telling Holland to take a chance on him. Knowing how deep his defence was he did this so he could f*** with Commodore all year long, maybe Mike Commodore is to Mike Babcock what Matt Damon is to Jimmy Kimble.

"Yeah don't worry your headin' out there soon commy" ...3rd period buzzer sounds..."Oh sorry buddy out of time maybe next game."

Edited by 13dangledangle, 17 November 2011 - 08:09 AM.

[mmamolo]

players should be peeking at the 27-30 age range that is not considered youth bub, maybe you should take your own advice before posting

besides Abdelkader Kindl Helm and Emmerton there is not enough youth


youth would be considered 25 and under

Craig Smith 22 - 14pts
Nugent-Hopkins 18 - 14pts
Luke Adam 21 - 13pts
Cody Hodgson 21 - 8pts
Landeskog 18 - 8pts
Coturier 18 - 8pts

also Roman Horak, Ryan Johansen, Stephane Da Costa and Colin Greening have produced


NJ has thrown Adam Henrique into their lineup and look how he has done

and most of the names i mentioned were not 1st round picks

ha wow, talk about cherry picking stats and trying to make what I wrote sound worse to suit your stance. I didn't list a single player that was older than 27. All of the players I put on that list were 27 and younger. So if you want to sit there and cry about how youth is 25 and under then go ahead but if you had any intelligence you'd notice that youth, to me, is 27 and under.

Noting players who have had good starts to the season is all fine and good. Especially when you're comparing them to current Red Wings since the Wings have started this season struggling to score goals. Also, if you're going to list players and their ages, point totals and drafts, you should at least give all of the information - don't be lame and cherry pick only the information that suits your side.

5 of the 11 players you noted were 1st round draft picks:

Craig Smith 22 - 14pts - 4th Round
Nugent-Hopkins 18 - 14pts - 1st Round
Luke Adam 21 - 13pts - 2nd Round
Cody Hodgson 21 - 8pts - 1st Round
Landeskog 18 - 8pts - 1st Round
Coturier 18 - 8pts - 1st Round
Roman Horak 20 - 6pts - 5th Round
Ryan Johansen 19 - 7pts - 1st Round
Stephane Da Costa 22 - 5pts - Undrafted
Colin Greening 25 - 8pts - 7th Round
Adam Henrique 21 - 10pts - 3rd Round

Also, it's not like all of these players are doing as amazingly as you'd like people to believe.

Listen, I'm not opposed to the Wings having more youth (even if it's how you want to define youth, younger than 25) but don't act like the Wings don't have any.

[Nightfall]

Ya time to play Smith the Wings keep their prospects in the minors for so long it becomes annoying. NHL experience is what he needs, just look at all the other young players getting time in the NHL and excelling.

I would rather Smith plays in the AHL and gets 1st line minutes than play in the NHL and gets 3rd line minutes at this stage in his young career.

[kylee]

Commy will playbetter. Give him a real chance. As in more than six minutes of ice time

[Yak19]

ha wow, talk about cherry picking stats and trying to make what I wrote sound worse to suit your stance. I didn't list a single player that was older than 27. All of the players I put on that list were 27 and younger. So if you want to sit there and cry about how youth is 25 and under then go ahead but if you had any intelligence you'd notice that youth, to me, is 27 and under.

Noting players who have had good starts to the season is all fine and good. Especially when you're comparing them to current Red Wings since the Wings have started this season struggling to score goals. Also, if you're going to list players and their ages, point totals and drafts, you should at least give all of the information - don't be lame and cherry pick only the information that suits your side.

5 of the 11 players you noted were 1st round draft picks:

Craig Smith 22 - 14pts - 4th Round
Nugent-Hopkins 18 - 14pts - 1st Round
Luke Adam 21 - 13pts - 2nd Round
Cody Hodgson 21 - 8pts - 1st Round
Landeskog 18 - 8pts - 1st Round
Coturier 18 - 8pts - 1st Round
Roman Horak 20 - 6pts - 5th Round
Ryan Johansen 19 - 7pts - 1st Round
Stephane Da Costa 22 - 5pts - Undrafted
Colin Greening 25 - 8pts - 7th Round
Adam Henrique 21 - 10pts - 3rd Round

Also, it's not like all of these players are doing as amazingly as you'd like people to believe.

Listen, I'm not opposed to the Wings having more youth (even if it's how you want to define youth, younger than 25) but don't act like the Wings don't have any.

if you had any intelligence you'd notice that youth, to me, is 27 and under.

the ignorance is remarkable



like i said most (6 of the 11) were not 1st rounders, is that not most? so i don't know where you are going with that

even if i agreed with youth being 27 and under all of those players for the Wings are career 3rd-4th liners (except Helm and Flip)

Edited by Yak19, 17 November 2011 - 03:56 PM.