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#61 Heaten

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:37 PM

Hossa vs Franzen...

Holland made the right decision. Hossa's playoff record is stale. He's Mr. Invisible when it matters.

#62 Crymson

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:41 PM

I don't know why people here don't see that the Wings have the talent to win it all. They've just not been getting production from needed quarters, and they've been making stupid mistakes. Once Datsyuk and Zetterberg get going, and once the kinks from the new coaches are worked out, I think things will go much better.

We saw again in the games against Anaheim, Colorado, Edmonton and Dallas what the Wings are capable of, and that was without any scoring from Pavel or Hank.

Edited by Crymson, 19 November 2011 - 01:41 PM.


#63 NeedMoreToughness

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:43 PM

I don't know why people here don't see that the Wings have the talent to win it all. They've just not been getting production from needed quarters, and they've been making stupid mistakes. Once Datsyuk and Zetterberg get going, and once the kinks from the new coaches are worked out, I think things will go much better.

We saw again in the games against Anaheim, Colorado, Edmonton and Dallas what the Wings are capable of, and that was without any scoring from Pavel or Hank.


Look at Chicagos/San Jose's top6 and you'll see what a talented top6 looks like. Detroit's top6 got nothing on those two team's top6

#64 Crymson

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:54 PM

Look at Chicagos/San Jose's top6 and you'll see what a talented top6 looks like. Detroit's top6 got nothing on those two team's top6


The Wings get significantly more production from their 3rd/4th lines and defense than either of those teams do. If you want the Wings to have a better top-six, a better bottom-six, and a better defensive corps than every other team, then you're going to be disappointed.

Edited by Crymson, 19 November 2011 - 01:54 PM.


#65 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:54 PM

We saw again in the games against Anaheim, Colorado, Edmonton and Dallas what the Wings are capable of, and that was without any scoring from Pavel or Hank.

We certainly saw what Flip and Franzen are capable of. Quality second line-type objects that can win you some games when your top guys don't score. This is the primary function of depth, of course, but the team won't be very successful if those top guys never score.

I'm continuing to give Pavel the benefit of the doubt because he at least looks like he's trying to play hockey, but Hank has honestly looked like a fourth liner of late. I have no explanation for this; perhaps he's injured. If it's any solace at all he's at least had one other fairly rough start to the season, in 2007, and he ended up above PPG that year.
"We've been in the same spot all year long. We won 50 games for the fourth year in a row. People think we're just hum-drum and boring.
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#66 Heaten

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:57 PM

Look at Chicagos/San Jose's top6 and you'll see what a talented top6 looks like. Detroit's top6 got nothing on those two team's top6


How many 1st round picks do those teams have in their top6?

Couture = 9th overall
Thonton = 1st overall
Marleau = 2nd overall

How many years did Chicago tank to get their current top 6?

It's not rocket science, Detroit doesn't have the luxury of picking top 10 every year. They find stars in the 7th and 9th round and people are still not happy.

#67 wings_fanatic

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 02:13 PM

I watched a game from the 2008 playoffs this morning because I was bored and wanted to remember what the good Red Wings team was capable of. Quite frankly, they have never really been the same team since that year. Their defense was impeckable, their star players were their star players, and their depth players all fulfilled their jobs and added offense to that.

With that said, the Wings still have the potential to get to that level... we have a good defense core still, our depth guys are playing great... its just a matter of Pavs and Hank doing their part now. Then it hit me... the biggest difference between then and now is Zetterberg... he was the team's goal scorer that entire year... he was the go-to guy because Pavs would just feed him the puck and he would not hesitate to blast that puck every chance he got. The problem? Since then, Mike babcock has consistently tried to always separate the two, leaving Hank to center his own 2nd like where he had to become more focused on being the set-up guy for his wingers and, in doing so, lost his scoring touch. If Mike Babcock wants the Wings to be successful, he has got to put Pavs and Hank together and keep them together and have the emphasis be Hank shooting the puck every time PAvs feeds it to him. If these two are given the time to develop their needed chemistry, and are the dominant line that we know them to be, then the Wings will be icing a team that is one of the best in the league. If babcock continues to not recognize this, then he is largely to blame.

#68 NeedMoreToughness

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 02:18 PM

How many 1st round picks do those teams have in their top6?

Couture = 9th overall
Thonton = 1st overall
Marleau = 2nd overall

How many years did Chicago tank to get their current top 6?

It's not rocket science, Detroit doesn't have the luxury of picking top 10 every year. They find stars in the 7th and 9th round and people are still not happy.


They traded up to get Couture (great active GM'ing), Thornton was a boston draft pick...

#69 GMRwings1983

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 02:29 PM

The Wings get significantly more production from their 3rd/4th lines and defense than either of those teams do. If you want the Wings to have a better top-six, a better bottom-six, and a better defensive corps than every other team, then you're going to be disappointed.


Yet those teams are playing better than us.

Big surprise.
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#70 DRW Dominance

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:17 PM

I don't know why people here don't see that the Wings have the talent to win it all. They've just not been getting production from needed quarters, and they've been making stupid mistakes. Once Datsyuk and Zetterberg get going, and once the kinks from the new coaches are worked out, I think things will go much better.

We saw again in the games against Anaheim, Colorado, Edmonton and Dallas what the Wings are capable of, and that was without any scoring from Pavel or Hank.



everyone knows they have the potential to get it done but why would anyone believe it. they honestly give us no reason to believe they will fulfill that potential.

u could literally say the same thing about 15 teams in this league.
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#71 Crymson

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:19 PM

everyone knows they have the potential to get it done but why would anyone believe it. they honestly give us no reason to believe they will fulfill that potential.

u could literally say the same thing about 15 teams in this league.


That's an arbitrary statement. How many of those teams have proven that they're of championship caliber?

#72 barabbas16

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:52 PM

Look at Chicagos/San Jose's top6 and you'll see what a talented top6 looks like. Detroit's top6 got nothing on those two team's top6


Datsyuk has 3 Selke trophies saying Detroit has the best defensive forward in the game. I would say that Detroit's top six "has that" on Chicago's and San Jose's. San Jose's top six has won a combined zero Stanley Cups. I would say that Detroit's tops six "has that" on them.

#73 NeedMoreToughness

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

Datsyuk has 3 Selke trophies saying Detroit has the best defensive forward in the game. I would say that Detroit's top six "has that" on Chicago's and San Jose's. San Jose's top six has won a combined zero Stanley Cups. I would say that Detroit's tops six "has that" on them.


Don't bring up the past, live in the present.

#74 GMRwings1983

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:02 PM

Datsyuk has 3 Selke trophies saying Detroit has the best defensive forward in the game. I would say that Detroit's top six "has that" on Chicago's and San Jose's. San Jose's top six has won a combined zero Stanley Cups. I would say that Detroit's tops six "has that" on them.


None of our top 6 forwards are as good as they were in 2008.
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#75 barabbas16

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:05 PM

Don't bring up the past, live in the present.


Oh I see... only look at less than 25% of one season, but completely ingnore the previous full regular seasons and playoffs. That seems logical.

Or perhaps you actually mean "Don't bring up things that don't support my statement. Only look at what I want you to." Sorry, I'm not going to do that.

I know it may seem difficult, but if you could remember WAY in the distant past to last season. Detroit won the Central Division, beating Chicago - AND they scored more goals than Chicago. This happened in a season when the top six forwards for both teams were almost identical to what they are THIS season.

#76 Crymson

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:10 PM

Don't bring up the past, live in the present.


Aye. Find reasons to discount every possible bit of optimism--even to an irrational extent--and instead focus on doom. Hey, if we're going to play that game, why not lower our sample size to one game? Then we can celebrate a certain Cup-winning roster after every win and lament the failure of the season after every loss. Well, I guess the latter sometimes happens already, but whatever.

Oh I see... only look at less than 25% of one season, but completely ingnore the previous full regular seasons and playoffs. That seems logical.

Or perhaps you actually mean "Don't bring up things that don't support my statement. Only look at what I want you to." Sorry, I'm not going to do that.

I know it may seem difficult, but if you could remember WAY in the distant past to last season. Detroit won the Central Division, beating Chicago - AND they scored more goals than Chicago. This happened in a season when the top six forwards for both teams were almost identical to what they are THIS season.


Excellent post.

Edited by Crymson, 19 November 2011 - 04:12 PM.


#77 barabbas16

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:13 PM

None of our top 6 forwards are as good as they were in 2008.


I agree with this. I disagree that they 'got nothing' on San Jose or Chicago forwards. Am I saying that our top six forwards are better than that of those teams? No, I am not. I was saying that the statement NeedMoreToughness made was an exaggeration. I do not think that the gap between the Detroit forwards and CHI/SJ/etc. is as big as that post made it sound. This is still a team that has a chance to win this year (yes, probably with a move to improve the top six, but the Wings have the cap room to do this and I think they will).

#78 Crymson

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:20 PM

edit: wrong thread

Edited by Crymson, 19 November 2011 - 04:20 PM.


#79 DRW Dominance

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:51 PM

None of our top 6 forwards are as good as they were in 2008.



exactly. we all know detroit is good, but probably not good enough at this stage.
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#80 DRW Dominance

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 05:01 PM

That's an arbitrary statement. How many of those teams have proven that they're of championship caliber?



vancouver
pittsburgh
philly
chicago
sj
boston
tampa
washington
detroit


buffalo looks good, la, rangers.
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