102 replies to this topic

[Esquire]

I wonder how Ericsson feels when he looks at the stat sheet and sees the numbers that White has put up with his first season as a Wing.

[greenrebellion]

He looked better last night. He scored a goal, which always helps, although I still have no confidence in his blue-line slap shot (something the Lidstrom, Stuart, White, and Kronwall all have).

He did take a penalty last night that Tampa converted on, but I was at the game so I couldn't tell if the penalty was BS or not.

Outside of the goal, I thought it was one of his worst games, and I'm not really an Ericsson basher. He was very poor in the defensive zone, weak along the boards, turned the puck over several times whereas usually he's at least adequate in these areas in the other games I've seen.

[sputman]

I wonder how Ericsson feels when he looks at the stat sheet and sees the numbers that White has put up with his first season as a Wing.

4pts vs. 11?

neither are terribly impressive.

[Esquire]

4pts vs. 11?

neither are terribly impressive.

Points aren't the only compatible stat I was referring to, but considering that White even missed 4 games and still almost triples Ericsson's output is impressive imho.

White is already on pace to crush personal career highs as well as currently leading the entire team in plus/minus. All this while logging 3rd most ice time and only 8 minutes in penalties.

These are all traits we are expecting Ericsson to adopt, yet sadly he simply continues to coast and rack up bad penalties.

[Drake_Marcus]

I wonder how Ericsson feels when he looks at the stat sheet and sees the numbers that White has put up with his first season as a Wing.

If Ericsson looks at the score sheet and has even a notion that his role on this team is the same as White's then he's a fool. Babcock's been very clear with what he expects of E-- PK time, minute eating, being physical around the net and providing a big, strong presence on the back end. Offense is an afterthought with Ericsson. White's role is the same as Rafalski's was-- being a smart, point-producing guy who can provide a spark on the PP and make that crisp first pass that gets things going.

Painting Ericsson as playing the same role as White is like saying Stuart is failing for not producing numbers like Kronwall since he's been here in Detroit.

[Esquire]

If Ericsson looks at the score sheet and has even a notion that his role on this team is the same as White's then he's a fool. Babcock's been very clear with what he expects of E-- PK time, minute eating, being physical around the net and providing a big, strong presence on the back end. Offense is an afterthought with Ericsson. White's role is the same as Rafalski's was-- being a smart, point-producing guy who can provide a spark on the PP and make that crisp first pass that gets things going.

Painting Ericsson as playing the same role as White is like saying Stuart is failing for not producing numbers like Kronwall since he's been here in Detroit.

I see what you're saying, but I don't recall these being attributes the Wings expected of him when they brought him though, especially since the guy has a great shot and was originally a forward.

I feel like they've had to adjust his role based upon his complete lack of development and the comparison of White and Ericsson was more to outline the fact that White has blossomed with the opportunity on the Wings whereas Ericsson has been stale and not shown many signs of earning that pay bump he signed for. And yes, I know there are a lot of circumstances that prompted that raise.

[haroldsnepsts]

I see what you're saying, but I don't recall these being attributes the Wings expected of him when they brought him though, especially since the guy has a great shot and was originally a forward.

I feel like they've had to adjust his role based upon his complete lack of development and the comparison of White and Ericsson was more to outline the fact that White has blossomed with the opportunity on the Wings whereas Ericsson has been stale and not shown many signs of earning that pay bump he signed for. And yes, I know there are a lot of circumstances that prompted that raise.

Since when does Ericsson have a great shot? He set a crazy high mph mark in the AHL skills competition, but that's not the same as having a great shot.

I disagree that the Wings expected him to be like Rafalski or White and have had to adjust his role. There's a reason E was taken dead last overall. I don't think anyone in Wings management was expecting him to be a Rafalski. They've always talked about his size, strength, and first pass, which are by far the biggest assets he has to offer the Wings.

He's improved but still needs to utilize those assets better, and now that he's more comfortable he's shown he can jump into the play on occasion. But I find it hard to believe they expected him to run the PP or anything.

I don 't really understand the White comparison either. In his 6 year NHL career White has put up 20+ points several times in his career. It's not like he's suddenly leaped ahead in development here. For him it seems like it's mostly been about staying healthy. It's not surprising he's flourishing being on the Wings spending time with Lidstrom.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 01 December 2011 - 01:35 PM.

[Heaten]

He looked better last night. He scored a goal, which always helps, although I still have no confidence in his blue-line slap shot (something the Lidstrom, Stuart, White, and Kronwall all have).

He did take a penalty last night that Tampa converted on, but I was at the game so I couldn't tell if the penalty was BS or not.

The penalty was BS. Ian White was the guy who should have been in the box... refs got it wrong.

[Esquire]

Since when does Ericsson have a great shot? He set a crazy high mph mark in the AHL skills competition, but that's not the same as having a great shot.

I disagree that the Wings expected him to be like Rafalski or White and have had to adjust his role. There's a reason E was taken dead last overall. I don't think anyone in Wings management was expecting him to be a Rafalski. They've always talked about his size, strength, and first pass, which are by far the biggest assets he has to offer the Wings.

Some scouting reports on Ericsson had him as a top 4 defenseman who at one time, was thought to even be a partial replacement for Lidstrom.

He's improved but still needs to utilize those assets better, and now that he's more comfortable he's shown he can jump into the play on occasion. But I find it hard to believe they expected him to run the PP or anything.

Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen an improvement that earns him a pass on these criticisms.

I don 't really understand the White comparison either. In his 6 year NHL career White has put up 20+ points several times in his career. It's not like he's suddenly leaped ahead in development here. For him it seems like it's mostly been about staying healthy. It's not surprising he's flourishing being on the Wings spending time with Lidstrom.

Again, the White comparison is to outline that one player (White) has seized a golden opportunity while another (Ericsson) has not. Yes White has put up 20+ points several times, but not at the pace he is on now and is on pace for a career high of about 30+. Both are the same age, yet White has bounced from team to team and still been able to maintain a good level of play consistently. So yes, he has jumped ahead from a developmental point since consistency is a hallmark of all high level players.

And the point about White playing with Lidstrom only serves to further highlight Ericsson's lack of progress. Ericsson has had 3+ years under Lidstrom and White has had 23 games. Who's made more of that at this point?

Moral of the story: Ericsson needs to get his s*** together and take on the bigger role that he is now paid to perform and not just be a big body with a good first pass for 3 million dollars.

[Crymson]

Ericsson really needs to play with more confidence, whatever the case.

I'm glad he had a good game last night. I didn't watch the game, but it was good to see him hit the net on the highlights.

[haroldsnepsts]

Some scouting reports on Ericsson had him as a top 4 defenseman who at one time, was thought to even be a partial replacement for Lidstrom.

You're going to need to back that up with a link or something because I've never heard or seen anything like that. A replacement for Lidstrom?? No way.

If people seriously thought a converted forward who's only been playing defense less than 10 years in his life was going to replace Lidstrom, no wonder they're so disappointed with Ericsson.

Hockey's future, who I think is often overly optimistic with prospects had him as a 4-6 guy. I could see early in his development maybe hoping he'd be a #2-3, though even that would be extremely optimistic.

Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen an improvement that earns him a pass on these criticisms.

Which is why in the portion you quoted I said he needed to utilize those assets better. I wasn't giving him a pass.

Again, the White comparison is to outline that one player (White) has seized a golden opportunity while another (Ericsson) has not. Yes White has put up 20+ points several times, but not at the pace he is on now and is on pace for a career high of about 30+. Both are the same age, yet White has bounced from team to team and still been able to maintain a good level of play consistently. So yes, he has jumped ahead from a developmental point since consistency is a hallmark of all high level players.

And the point about White playing with Lidstrom only serves to further highlight Ericsson's lack of progress. Ericsson has had 3+ years under Lidstrom and White has had 23 games. Who's made more of that at this point?

Moral of the story: Ericsson needs to get his s*** together and take on the bigger role that he is now paid to perform and not just be a big body with a good first pass for 3 million dollars.

White was already an established defenseman in the NHL when he came here. He was already a better defenseman than E when he came to the Wings, so it's not really seizing some opportunity that Ericsson had and passed up somehow. Criticizing Ericsson for not being Ian White doesn't make much sense to me.

I've said many times I doubt that Ericsson will earn his full contract. But he is improving and has been a solid D man for the Wings, if an overpaid one.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 01 December 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[Red Wings Addict]

You're going to need to back that up with a link or something because I've never heard or seen anything like that. A replacement for Lidstrom?? No way.

At the time of his '09 playoff performance, I remember some talk (from NBC, probably Milbury and McGuire, go figure) about Ericsson winning a Norris trophy sometime in his future and the possibility of him being a replacement for Lidstrom. This was the Ericsson hype at its finest.

[Esquire]

You're going to need to back that up with a link or something because I've never heard or seen anything like that. A replacement for Lidstrom?? No way.

If people seriously thought a converted forward who's only been playing defense less than 10 years in his life was going to replace Lidstrom, no wonder they're so disappointed with Ericsson.

Hockey's future, who I think is often overly optimistic with prospects had him as a 4-6 guy. I could see early in his development maybe hoping he'd be a #2-3, though even that would be extremely optimistic.

PARTIAL replacement. Which means to imply that he's a big factor in helping to plug the hole, not replace it completely. Here's one link I have:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2008/11/12/64/preliminary-ericsson-no-1/

Ericsson remains Red Wings Central’s No. 1 prospect. The 6-foot-5, 218-pounder will one day factor into Detroit’s top four. As McNamara said, “He does everything like an NHLer, and he’ll be in the NHL within the next year.”

...

01. D Jonathan Ericsson, Grand Rapids (AHL). Of all the compliments Ericsson deserves, perhaps the most appropriate is owed to his patience. He’s an NHL blueliner masquerading as an AHLer, but not for long. Ericsson almost didn’t get signed three years ago; now he’s a franchise cornerstone.

Which is why in the portion you quoted I said he needed to utilize those assets better. I wasn't giving him a pass.

Noted.

White was already an established defenseman in the NHL when he came here. He was already a better defenseman than E when he came to the Wings, so it's not really seizing some opportunity that Ericsson had and passed up somehow. Criticizing Ericsson for not being Ian White doesn't make much sense to me.

I'll respectfully disagree here. Any time you can join a team with Lidstrom on your line, that's a big opportunity for your career advancement. Despite White being an already good defenseman, he's actually getting better. Most of the Wings defense have made significant strides in their development over a 3 year period in Detroit, whether under Lidstrom's guidance or Babcock's, but we're still waiting on Ericsson.

If Lidstrom retires next season, who is Ericsson going to look to to model his game after or look to for advice on defending? NOW is the time for Ericsson to start making strides, not later.

I've said many times I doubt that Ericsson will earn his full contract. But he is improving and has been a solid D man for the Wings, if an overpaid one.

I can't wait for next season when our 3 million dollar 3rd line defenseman is battling with our rookie stud for ice time. Sheesh.

[Red Wings Addict]

Oh my God... Ericsson... Franchise cornerstone... I had to clarify that definition in my head for a quick minute. Usually when I hear franchise cornerstone I think of Yzerman, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. But the term actually encompasses guys like Kris Draper as well since he was a Red Wing for so long. Perhaps Ericsson can be the best luxury 3rd pair defenseman in the league one day.

[haroldsnepsts]

PARTIAL replacement. Which means to imply that he's a big factor in helping to plug the hole, not replace it completely. Here's one link I have:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2008/11/12/64/preliminary-ericsson-no-1/

Franchise cornerstone? That's just some guy at redwings central, and he's apparently smoking crack. Especially because he's not projecting E to be that. He's already calling him a franchise cornerstone. Which he obviously is not.

E was definitely the #1 prospect once upon a time, but like I said, I think #4 D man was about his most realistic NHL potential.

I'll respectfully disagree here. Any time you can join a team with Lidstrom on your line, that's a big opportunity for your career advancement. Despite White being an already good defenseman, he's actually getting better. Most of the Wings defense have made significant strides in their development over a 3 year period in Detroit, whether under Lidstrom's guidance or Babcock's, but we're still waiting on Ericsson.

If Lidstrom retires next season, who is Ericsson going to look to to model his game after or look to for advice on defending? NOW is the time for Ericsson to start making strides, not later.

I can't wait for next season when our 3 million dollar 3rd line defenseman is battling with our rookie stud for ice time. Sheesh.

Ericsson shouldn't be trying to model his game after Lidstrom. He should be trying to model it after Pronger, if anyone. I realize Pronger isn't a teammate, but Lids hockey IQ is so off the charts Im' not sure how relevant it would be to model E's game on his. Ericsson will never have that hockey sense.

And I said in another thread, if Smith continues to play as well as he has, I think he'll be competing with Kindl more than Ericsson. Kindl's role has much more overlap with what Smith's would be on the Wings. A more offensive-minded puck moving D man who plays on the PP. Whereas Ericsson can still carve out a niche to be a physical more stay at home guy who plays PK minutes.

Like I said, I think he's overpaid too. Id' be surprised if Ericsson is ever more than a #4/5 guy. If he's knocking guys around, playing solid D, and is eating up PK minutes, maybe he'd be worth that contract. I think if Holland had White and Commie locked up first, Ericsson doesn't get that much money.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 01 December 2011 - 03:21 PM.

[Esquire]

Franchise cornerstone? That's just some guy at redwings central, and he's apparently smoking crack. Especially because he's not projecting E to be that. He's already calling him a franchise cornerstone. Which he obviously is not.

E was definitely the #1 prospect once upon a time, but like I said, I think #4 D man was about his most realistic NHL potential.

A giant rock by the sounds of it. lol

Ericsson shouldn't be trying to model his game after Lidstrom. He should be trying to model it after Pronger, if anyone. I realize Pronger isn't a teammate, but Lids hockey IQ is so off the charts Im' not sure how relevant it would be to model E's game on his. Ericsson will never have that hockey sense.

And I said in another thread, if Smith continues to play as well as he has, I think he'll be competing with Kindl more than Ericsson. Kindl's role has much more overlap with what Smith's would be on the Wings. A more offensive-minded puck moving D man who plays on the PP. Whereas Ericsson can still carve out a niche to be a physical more stay at home guy who plays PK minutes.

Fair enough. Maybe "model his game after" wasn't the proper term. I'm just waiting for him to consistantly and effectively use his size to the point where other teams actually respect it. Nobody I've seen play against him so far has shown that they really acknowledge he's there for the most part!

Like I said, I think he's overpaid too. Id' be surprised if Ericsson is ever more than a #4/5 guy. If he's knocking guys around, playing solid D, and is eating up PK minutes, maybe he'd be worth that contract. I think if Holland had White and Commie locked up first, Ericsson doesn't get that much money.

I think we're on the same page overall here.

[Red Wings Addict]

Franchise cornerstone? That's just some guy at redwings central, and he's apparently smoking crack. Especially because he's not projecting E to be that. He's already calling him a franchise cornerstone. Which he obviously is not.

E was definitely the #1 prospect once upon a time, but like I said, I think #4 D man was about his most realistic NHL potential.

I think the definition of franchise cornerstone is extremely similar to life-long Red Wing. Or insert whatever team name there. Kris Draper for example was a franchise cornerstone because he was the unquestionable leader of the bottom six. He worked his way up, set the example and did it for a long time. I think you can be a franchise cornerstone if the organization values you so much that they keep you for a long time and trust you with certain responsibilities year after year. On the other hand, guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are franchise superstars, not just cornerstones.

[Heaten]

I've been happy with Ericsson, he seems to be filling his role nicely. He's going to get better. Defensemen don't even reach their peak til their early/mid 30s. The guy just scored a nice goal yesterday, he's showing got the offensive tools to go with his size and shut-down defense.

Edited by Heaten, 01 December 2011 - 06:44 PM.

[Holmstrom96]

Ericsson made some great tape to tape passes tonight... to the wrong color jersey. I also like the penalty he took that Colorado converted on. It's not all his fault though, apparently the Wings are supposed to play in more than just the first period.

Edited by Holmstrom96, 04 December 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[Crymson]

Two horrendous defensive plays in two minutes by Ericsson. Brilliant.