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Babcock: "Do we want to be a good team or not?"


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#21 mmamolo

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:54 PM

That's what's so baffling about this team right now. It's not just lack of scoring, it's incredible brain farts like that by players who normally don't do that. I've watched the replay I don't know how many times trying to figure out what Kronwall was thinking.

Did he seriously think Thornton was going to just play it up the boards from behind the Wings net, so he veers off and leaves him wide open? Then Datsyuk blows right past Pavelski leaving him wide open in the slot. It's jaw-droppingly bad decision making by two very good defensive players.

Kronwall thought that Howard was going to play the puck passed Thornton so he curled up the boards in anticipation of the pass. Kronwall was reading Howard's movement towards the puck. Howard misread the play as it turned out he couldn't play the puck because of the trapezoid.

Datsyuk's blown coverage on Pavelski is far worse if you ask me.
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#22 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:57 PM

Kronwall thought that Howard was going to play the puck passed Thornton so he curled up the boards in anticipation of the pass. Kronwall was reading Howard's movement towards the puck. Howard misread the play as it turned out he couldn't play the puck because of the trapezoid.

Datsyuk's blown coverage on Pavelski is far worse if you ask me.

I guess I could see that. But he curls off so late, Jimmy was already pretty much back in the net. It just seemed like such a late reaction from Kronner.

As for Datsyuk, I agree. It's so surprising that he would blow coverage like that.

This looks like a team who doesn't trust one another. A team without a system they believe in.

#23 mmamolo

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:01 PM

I guess I could see that. But he curls off so late, Jimmy was already pretty much back in the net. It just seemed like such a late reaction from Kronner.

As for Datsyuk, I agree. It's so surprising that he would blow coverage like that.

This looks like a team who doesn't trust one another. A team without a system they believe in.

I thought Kronwall reacted late as well but I think he had committed to the turn and didn't look back to realize what Howard was doing.

Everyone is messing up basic hockey stuff. Each goal last night was on the heels of a fundamental error by the Wings
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#24 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:23 PM

I've been annoyed when others jumped to this conclusion too early, but we're coming up on that all knowing 20 game mark and I think we've sene what we are now... I hate to say it, but this team needs a major shake-up... personnel has been too comfortable for too long and I think certain players are becomming complacent....

I still think we're going to see a blockbuster trade at the deadline... at this point, I really just hope it doesn't include Fil, as he's been our best forward this season and short of our bottom 6, he's the only one that's shown tenancity game in and out...

I agree with you about Filppula, but unfortunately nobody is gonna take our underachieving garbage just because of their potential. If not Filppula, then it's gonna be Helm or Abby. For me the ONLY trade-able guys I would not trade is Filppula, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Helm, Abby and Howard. Obviously Lidstrom isn't going anywhere and neither is Holmstrom. Even guys with NTC/NMC would be shopped, if they don't want to waive them clause, then they will sit... But, if we could package something together for a HUGE HUGE HUGE impact player, I'd be all for it. If you have to dump Franzen/Hudler/Kronwall along with prespects, then do it. Everyone is right, this team is stale, content, comfortable. I said it before, this team is what it is and pretty much you have already seen the best this "core" can be. Even Helm and Abby are what they are, they're good, but they aren't gonna all of a sudden turn into 50 goal scorer's.

I hope things change, but how long until they do? Kenny, this is a business, you have to so what's best for the franchise. Start the phones ringing, you should be able to get a very nice player(s) for a few good packages... Franzen, Hudler, Kronwall, Ericsson, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Brunnstrom...prospects, picks. Let's get some impact players here, not part timers.

Interesting thing about Franzen, we all remember his 5 goal outburst last season, right after that somebody (I forget who) started calling him the new Fedorov, well, it seems ever since that comparison...he has stunk up the ice. Trade him. If you can.

Edited by LeftWinger, 18 November 2011 - 01:27 PM.

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#25 GoWings1905

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:24 PM

I don't even care to see the answer. It's bad enough the question has to be asked.
 
 
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#26 b.shanafan14

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:35 PM

Zetterberg is becoming the Wings' Scott Gomez... frustrating.

Last night was a terrible effort all around, but it was the type of game that even last year the Wings' top players would have responded to with at least a valiant effort. This season it seems the opposite is true. If the team is getting bad breaks and making mistakes, the top guys are deserving of most of the blame. I mean no one picking up Jumbo on the shorty, and Pavel watching the puck as the goal is being scored, then on the Thornton goal, Jumbo out Zetterberg's Zetterberg, taking the puck off Hank's stick on the backcheck and turning it back the other way for the eventual goal, while Hank seems to pull up and watch in complete "aww shucks" mode.

The personnel haven't changed much, but this is a very different team then the one that saw back-to-back finals appearances. Zetterberg more than anyone is indicative of that. Hate to bring it up but... 10 more years... :/ Its not the production, its the effort and attitude; better get it figured out, Z.

Edited by b.shanafan14, 18 November 2011 - 01:36 PM.


#27 greenrebellion

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:09 PM

Not sure Babcock can be blamed for any of our problems...The biggest change that this team has experienced over the last few years, and particularly over the last season is that our top 2 players are not “elite” anymore. I mean compare our top 6 to most other Western Conference teams and you’ll see that we aren’t that special skill wise comparatively. The one difference we’ve had over the years that made us such a great team is that our top 2 centers were game changing players that made the players around them MUCH better than they actually are. With Datsyuk and Zetterberg playing at merely human levels this season, their ability to dramatically boost the people around them is virtually gone. Now that the emperor has no clothes, Franzen, Cleary, Hudler, Filpulla, Bertuzzi etc., are revealed as merely role players with average skills in most areas of the ice. This leaves us with a top six that is very much inferior to what most other teams can put on the ice.

If you look at other teams secondary top six players, they have guys that can “do stuff” on their own. Couture is a fairly dynamic offensive player no matter what line he’s on. Same with Kesler. Look at Chicago, they have Hossa , Sharp, Toews and Kane, all four of which are solid offensive players far above mere role players who rely solely on those around them.

Given the long term nature of the contracts we have, I am at least somewhat concerned that if Datsyuk and Zetterberg don’t bounce back, we could be in for a few years worth of trouble. Getting a couple top tier offensive players that are dynamic in their own right is not an easy task, especially in a salary cap world.

That said, I’m not giving up on our top players yet, and even if this year turns out to be a down year, enough of the team has expiring contracts that heading into next year, Holland should have the ability to shake things up a fair bit.

Edited by greenrebellion, 18 November 2011 - 03:10 PM.


#28 Lonewuhf

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:22 PM

Our D does miss Rafalski like we all knew we would. White has fit in well, I've been happy with his play. Nick has been outstanding as usual but he can't do it all by himself. We need guys like Kronwall, Hudler, Ericsson, Fillpula, Helm, Abdelkader and Cleary to step up but they aren't. Even if Dats, Z and Mule start playing well again, if we don't have proper balance we're not going anywhere anyway.


Do you watch the games? Fil has been BY FAR one of our best forwards, and hardest working. Also check the stats page. 2nd in points, tied for first in +/- (I realize +/- is lame, but still makes a point). If you're going to make us read something that long, at least put correct information in it.

#29 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:23 PM

Grow some balls and call the team out, Babs. Pansy.
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#30 RusDRW

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

it is interesting point I would say... Either the team will magically find a way to work hard or someone will be traded and/or Babcock fired.

PS I want the next seasons start ASAP. Something tells me we'll continue to "find answers in the locker room"
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#31 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 07:50 PM

it is interesting point I would say... Either the team will magically find a way to work hard or someone will be traded and/or Babcock fired.

PS I want the next seasons start ASAP. Something tells me we'll continue to "find answers in the locker room"

I think that the "find answers in the lockeroom" and "<player> coming back from injury is our deadline acquisition..." days are over. That is not working, and hasn't worked for a long time, if it ever did. The time now is for change. Who and where from? Your guess is as good as mine!

It's time for Holland to put up and show the NHL that he IS the best GM in the business...

Edited by LeftWinger, 18 November 2011 - 07:51 PM.

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#32 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:59 PM

We've seen and heard this plenty.

Not that that's a bad thing, it's just basically they know what they have to do, many are seasoned professionals, doing it on a consistent basis is easier said than done.

Honestly, they don't really need to say anything.

They need to be desperate NOW though. I don't have much doubt they will eventually get a good winning streak going, they are more than capable, but with the parity of this league and 3-point games, every little point helps in the standings.

#33 GoWings1905

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:54 PM

I think that the "find answers in the lockeroom" and "<player> coming back from injury is our deadline acquisition..." days are over. That is not working, and hasn't worked for a long time, if it ever did. The time now is for change. Who and where from? Your guess is as good as mine!

It's time for Holland to put up and show the NHL that he IS the best GM in the business...


There's nothing Holland can do right now. I don't know what people expect from him at this point. I said it in the GDT last night, but there aren't impact players available with so many competitive teams in the league. The teams will spread out more by March, but even then it's going to be tough to get major value without selling off a ton back. Also, what do the Red Wings really have to offer on their roster right now?

Trust me, I think the Red Wings need some new faces as much as anyone. That being said, I expect it to occur next summer. You have to feel bad for Lidstrom more than anything if this season continues to play out in a mediocre fashion.
 
 
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#34 Konnan511

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:37 AM

Bench Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary, and Stuart all for a game or two. Play Tatar, Nyquist, Joakim Anderson, and Smith suring that span. We'll get killed, but it'll at least send a message to those guys that they need to step the f*** up!
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