Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Prospect Ranking (No Letter Grades)


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,439 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:00 PM

I was thinking about how I'd rank our players at each position, keeping NHL readiness and impact in mind without relying on the number and letter grades used elsewhere. At this point in the year I think they'd look something like this:

Center:

Jarnkrok
Sheahan
Emmerton
Ferraro
Quine
Andersson
Macek
Aubry
Raedeke
Hudon
Cayer
Samuelsson

Left Wing:

Nyquist
Tatar
Tvrdon
Nestrasil

Right Wing:

Pulkkinen
Jurco
Mursak
Coetzee
Callahan
Parkes
Pare

Defensemen:

Smith
Jensen
Sproul
Ouellet
Almqvist
Marshall
Marchenko
Lashoff
Nedomlel
Nicastro
Backman
Fournier
Pyett
Ehrhardt
Piche

Goalies:

Mrazak
McCollum
Pearce

What do you guys agree, or disagree with? Keep in mind, balancing raw talent and being an NHL ready player factored into how I've ranked them. Either way, be good to get some other perspective.

Edited by Jesusberg, 21 November 2011 - 03:01 PM.


#2 Heaten

Heaten

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,639 posts

Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:31 PM

I don't know one way or another because I don't watch a lot of the prospects. But I am surprised Jensen is 2nd on the list. Is he really been that good? There was a lot of hype about Almqvist because his hockey IQ is through the roof. Despite being small, he was very effective.

From what I read about Fournier, he's extremely underrated. I guess he's tearing it up lately.

There was a lot of hype about Marchenko, guess he dropped in the draft because of the Russian factor. Not sure what is upside is expected to be. I am excited to learning more about him.

I was really excited about Nestrasil, but not sure he will pan out. He hasn't been impressive since WJ.

I wasn't excited about Jurco, but now I am thinking this kid may be a star in the making. He's got all the size, tools/talent, work ethics, and smarts to be great.

I've never been high on Tatar. The few times I watch him play, I've been extremely underwhelmed by him. Currently, Sheahan and Nyquist are my favorite prospects...

#3 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,439 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:43 PM

I don't know one way or another because I don't watch a lot of the prospects. But I am surprised Jensen is 2nd on the list. Is he really been that good? There was a lot of hype about Almqvist because his hockey IQ is through the roof. Despite being small, he was very effective.

From what I read about Fournier, he's extremely underrated. I guess he's tearing it up lately.

There was a lot of hype about Marchenko, guess he dropped in the draft because of the Russian factor. Not sure what is upside is expected to be. I am excited to learning more about him.

I was really excited about Nestrasil, but not sure he will pan out. He hasn't been impressive since WJ.

I wasn't excited about Jurco, but now I am thinking this kid may be a star in the making. He's got all the size, tools/talent, work ethics, and smarts to be great.

I've never been high on Tatar. The few times I watch him play, I've been extremely underwhelmed by him. Currently, Sheahan and Nyquist are my favorite prospects...


This isn't really a "list" per se... it's got no relevance at all to any real rankings; it's just how I view some of our prospects right now. Jensen seems to be underrated to me. When I was writing for HF a few years ago, the editor at the time told me she'd watched him quite a bit and that he was the real deal. He's only gotten better since then, and his transition into college hockey last year was very solid. He's on pace to go over his point total slightly from last season, and has improved his defensive game quite a bit.

Almqvist has a lot of talent, and his hockey IQ is something that's been mentioned to me numerous times. My biggest concern with Almqvist is just him being overmatched physically. He done well to put on some weight in the last few seasons, but he's still kind of slight. Combine that with his need to improve his skating, and I worry about how he'd handle getting hit on North American ice. The rinks are smaller, and he'd have less time and space to make plays. I really can't wait to see if he comes over to play in Grand Rapids, because then it'd be easier to tell how much that hockey sense can overcome the issues in his game.

Fournier did have a great start to the year in the ECHL. I think he deserves a spot on the Griffs over Piche or Ehrhardt without a doubt. He just seemed to get a bit stagnant his last year in the Q, so I'd like to see what he can do as the season progresses.

Marchenko, but the accounts of the Russian prospect writer at HF boards is going to be a huge steal for the Red Wings. The issue this season is that he had a bit of trouble getting ice time on his KHL team, and then suffered a knee injury. He had to have surgery, and is going to miss the IIHF tourney, so it's going to be difficult to really rank him without that. We'll see.

I agree on Nestrasil. I had hope for him as well, but he just seems to have consistency issues. His first game or two with the Griffins he put in a couple points right away, and then got quiet. I'm excited about Jurco too. He's got really solid linemates right now in Huberdeau and Phillips, so I'm sure that's helping him a ton.

As far as Tatar goes, I really think Nyquist showed a difference in their play with the little things that he does. While it was only pre-season, Nyquist showed a lot more poise than I think Tatar has. During his call-up, and in various AHL games I've seen Tatar much questionable moves with the puck. I still think he's a solid prospect, but I think he just needs to develop some more patience and consistency. At this point with what I've seen this year, I'd have to put Nyquist just ahead of him.

#4 rick zombo

rick zombo

    Grit

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,549 posts

Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:20 AM

The only comment I have about the OPs list is that I feel Emmerton has "graduated". I no longer see him as a prospect. Same with Mursak. Almost the same with Smith.

But, to stay true to the converstation at hand, my top 10 is based around who has the best chance of (as Babcock would put it) becoming an NHL player:

1 Smith - self explanatory
2 Nyquist - same
3 Sheahan - projects easily as a bottom sixer. sure thing. reminds me of Abdlekader. maybe less aggresive.
4 Jarnkrok - no glaring weeknesses except for size. he'll fill out.
5 Tatar - has to make the top six. too many bigger/better defensive prospects to fill out the bottom six.
6 Andersson - safe projection as a 4th line/13th (depth) player
7 Jurco - best offensice forward in the system. too early to tell how he'll pan out. hat trick ****, anyone?
8 Pulkinnen - one dimensional. small. slow. his shot's too good to count him out.
9 Aubry - size, speed, work ethic. the rest can be taught.
10 Callahan - fills a void. safe 12th/13th forward-type

At least four of these kids will play in the NHL. I'm sure of it.

Sproul, Mrazak, Trvdon, Oullet, (etc.) could easily jump a bunch of these guys, but it's still too early. The ten players I picked are safer bets right now, but some (like Andersson) don't have the upside that a guy like Trvdon has.

Edited by rick zombo, 23 November 2011 - 10:22 AM.

"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#5 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,113 posts

Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:51 PM

Center:

Jarnkrok
Sheahan
Ferraro
Quine
Andersson
Aubry
Cayer
Macek
Raedeke
Hudon
Samuelsson

Left Wing:

Nyquist
Tatar
Tvrdon
Nestrasil

Right Wing:

Pulkkinen
Jurco
Mursak
Callahan
Coetzee
Parkes
Pare

Defensemen:

Smith
Jensen
Sproul
Ouellet
Almqvist
Marshall
Marchenko
Lashoff
Nedomlel
Nicastro
Backman
Fournier
Pyett
Ehrhardt
Piche

Goalies:

Mrazak
McCollum
Pearce

At center I dont really think Emmertons a prospect, hes a full time NHLer now. I moved Aubry and Cayer up above Macek because I dont think theres a chance that Macek makes it. Aubry's a big physical guy and good defensively, projects as a bottom 6er. Cayer is showing when healthy he can put up points in the NCAA this season. Hes huge and by all reports is one, if not our best skating prospect. Hes also mean as hell. I think hes going to end up playing on the wings 4th line as an enforcer, but one who can actually skate a fairly regular shift and lay guys out left and right

Left wing I agree

Right wing I moved Callahan ahead of Coetzee for similar reasons as Cayer above Macek. Coetzee is a top 6er or nothing and Callahan is perfect for the 4th line even. Callahan is one of our most likely, if not the most likely to crack the NHL. I'm also starting to not be so high on Pulkkinen and leaning towards Jurco maybe better but not enough to switch their spots yet

On D smith is by far number one and I really like Jensen too. He put up similar numbers to Smith in his rookie year that smith did as a sophomore. He also likes to throw his weight aronud and go for Kronwall like hits. Has a few fights t his name as well.

Ouelette and Sproul are tough for me. Sproul has higher upside but I see Ouellette as much more likely to make the NHL. He can skate, play physical, fight, put up a decent amount of points. I think he could e a good number 4. Sproul could be a sick offensive guy, but his defense just isnt there and he has a long ways to go to make the NHL as a defender.

Overall I didnt disagree on much, seems like you rank more on potential whereas once you get past the first few prospects at eah position I base it on likelihood of cracking the NHL. Fighters, physical players and defensive studs are the more likely in this area so I give them higher rankings than the pure skill guys without quite enough skill

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#6 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,439 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 25 November 2011 - 01:08 PM

At center I dont really think Emmertons a prospect, hes a full time NHLer now. I moved Aubry and Cayer up above Macek because I dont think theres a chance that Macek makes it. Aubry's a big physical guy and good defensively, projects as a bottom 6er. Cayer is showing when healthy he can put up points in the NCAA this season. Hes huge and by all reports is one, if not our best skating prospect. Hes also mean as hell. I think hes going to end up playing on the wings 4th line as an enforcer, but one who can actually skate a fairly regular shift and lay guys out left and right

Left wing I agree

Right wing I moved Callahan ahead of Coetzee for similar reasons as Cayer above Macek. Coetzee is a top 6er or nothing and Callahan is perfect for the 4th line even. Callahan is one of our most likely, if not the most likely to crack the NHL. I'm also starting to not be so high on Pulkkinen and leaning towards Jurco maybe better but not enough to switch their spots yet

On D smith is by far number one and I really like Jensen too. He put up similar numbers to Smith in his rookie year that smith did as a sophomore. He also likes to throw his weight aronud and go for Kronwall like hits. Has a few fights t his name as well.

Ouelette and Sproul are tough for me. Sproul has higher upside but I see Ouellette as much more likely to make the NHL. He can skate, play physical, fight, put up a decent amount of points. I think he could e a good number 4. Sproul could be a sick offensive guy, but his defense just isnt there and he has a long ways to go to make the NHL as a defender.

Overall I didnt disagree on much, seems like you rank more on potential whereas once you get past the first few prospects at eah position I base it on likelihood of cracking the NHL. Fighters, physical players and defensive studs are the more likely in this area so I give them higher rankings than the pure skill guys without quite enough skill


Thanks for the input. I kept a few guys on there because they're still considered prospect by HF standards... just a habit I guess.

I agree with Aubry, reworking the list I'd put him over Macek. I think Macek's a bit of a mystery, kind of like Quine. Both guys strike me as hit or miss. As far as Cayer goes, I'm not sold on him. He struggled for three years at Clarkson, so I kind of feel iffy about him. I know he's got a mean streak, as you mention, but I just don't know if he'll be able to contribute at the NHL level.

I can see your point on Coetzee, I just want to see more out of Callahan. I might be a little caught up with Coetzee's solid start to the season. I agree with Callahan being the prospect more likely to succeed in the NHL. I just wonder about Coetzee's potential. He can go down that Francis Pare road, or maybe he has a higher ceiling. As far as Pulkkinen goes, I'm just really high on his skill level and hockey IQ. He's struggled a bit lately, but we'll see. I like Jurco, but I wonder how much of it is flash. I want to see how his skill translates in a higher league.

I'm glad someone else sees Jensen's potential. I just think he's very underrated/under the radar. He's progressed so well. I think it's easy to look over some college players (I have in the past), but he seems like the real deal to me. He's very solid all around. As far as Sproul vs. Ouellet, I'm on Sproul's side for now. He's got a lot of poise to his game, and he really is working on his defensive game. He's a +15 on an average Soo Greyhounds team, and he just seems like he's going to blossom into a good two-way defender to me.

Ouellet, I think has a lot of offensive potential. I've watched a few Armada games this year and to me the physical stuff seems a bit out of his element. I think the slapped the "C" on his chest and he felt the pressure. Some of the penalties he takes seems stupid to me... as if he's just trying too hard. His -11 is ugly, but not the reason I'd rank him below Sproul. Like I said, I think Ouellet just felt a lot of pressure and is a little out of his element this year. Don't get me wrong, if he rounds out his game and cuts down on the stupid penalties (not the physicality) I think he could be a promising player.

I understand what you mean by ranking based on potential, but I think guys who have that "top 6" feel are tough to judge. I mean, I thought Evan McGrath was a sure thing seven years ago, but offensive prospects can really let you down. That's why I ranked Pare where I did... he's spent 4 years down in GR and is offense or bust, and it seems like bust as far as his future with the Wings goes.

I see the value in guys like Andersson, Aubry, Callahan, etc. but I also know they have to put some numbers up to be a Red Wing. Cayer or Callahan's future as a 4th liner on this team is really dependent on the numbers they can put up/their defensive strengths. The Red Wings could have an enforcer, but he'd have to be a Brandon Prust type guy. Putting up 30ish point, playing strong defense and dropping the gloves. I really hope either Cayer or Callahan is that guy, but we'll see.

Either way, leaving letter grades out of ranking makes things a lot more clear to me.

#7 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,113 posts

Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:40 PM

I see the value in guys like Andersson, Aubry, Callahan, etc. but I also know they have to put some numbers up to be a Red Wing. Cayer or Callahan's future as a 4th liner on this team is really dependent on the numbers they can put up/their defensive strengths. The Red Wings could have an enforcer, but he'd have to be a Brandon Prust type guy. Putting up 30ish point, playing strong defense and dropping the gloves. I really hope either Cayer or Callahan is that guy, but we'll see.

Either way, leaving letter grades out of ranking makes things a lot more clear to me.

I disagree. Cayer and Callahan wont have to put up that much in the way of points to make the NHL team.

Both can skate like the wind, throw huge hits and both can fight (assuming on Cayer but Its a safe bet I think).

If they bring that energy every shift, they look great on the fourth line, ala Dallas Drake. He only had like 6 points I think in 08 but still played his bag off every shift and threw his weight.

If they can PK well and get 10-15 points a year while being huge physical tough guys, the wings will give them a shot. The wings current fourth liners are only good for about 20 points a year anyways, without really providing anything else

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#8 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,439 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:10 PM

I disagree. Cayer and Callahan wont have to put up that much in the way of points to make the NHL team.

Both can skate like the wind, throw huge hits and both can fight (assuming on Cayer but Its a safe bet I think).

If they bring that energy every shift, they look great on the fourth line, ala Dallas Drake. He only had like 6 points I think in 08 but still played his bag off every shift and threw his weight.

If they can PK well and get 10-15 points a year while being huge physical tough guys, the wings will give them a shot. The wings current fourth liners are only good for about 20 points a year anyways, without really providing anything else


I'm more sold on Callahan than I am Cayer. I've seen or heard nothing to indicate that Callahan is a great skater. Very solid forechecker, yes... but I've yet to see him "skate like the wind". He's got more offensive upside than Cayer, and seems to have stronger hockey sense.

Prior to this season, Cayer's highest point total for Clarkson was 10. He has to show something at the college level (which he's doing right now) and then in the AHL. He's a better skater than Cally and is a bigger body. I think the jury's out on both guys still, but if I had to guess which is more likely to be a future Red Wings player, I'd say Callahan.

#9 newfy

newfy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,113 posts

Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:29 PM

I'm more sold on Callahan than I am Cayer. I've seen or heard nothing to indicate that Callahan is a great skater. Very solid forechecker, yes... but I've yet to see him "skate like the wind". He's got more offensive upside than Cayer, and seems to have stronger hockey sense.

Prior to this season, Cayer's highest point total for Clarkson was 10. He has to show something at the college level (which he's doing right now) and then in the AHL. He's a better skater than Cally and is a bigger body. I think the jury's out on both guys still, but if I had to guess which is more likely to be a future Red Wings player, I'd say Callahan.

No question Callahan is more likely but Cayers actually healthy this season and its showing. At all the prospects camps, hes one of the best skaters and that alone is enough for me to think theyll give the giant that skates like the wind a shot. If nothing else theyll use him in Grand Rapids to protect the young guys, GR has no toughness in their forward group besides Callahan. There are examples of NCAA guys who dont produce much but are good players still. Cayer to me could become a bigger, tougher Mike Brown who is a good player in his own right. He has a mean streak and is a great skater and hes one of the better 4th liners in the league. I think Cayer could be exactly like him.

Callahan doesnt skate like the wind but hes pretty fast and his skating isnt something that will hold him back from making the NHL. He can also PK pretty well, hit, fight and has decent hands on top of it. Enough skill to make one of the better world junior squads plus the ability to fight and hit makes for a solid NHLer.

I think its a myth that players have to be able to put up points to play for the wings. Dallas Drake offered exactly what Callahan and Cayer will for the wings in 08 and he only got 6 points all season. He just had the ability to skate which set him apart from other guys who play a similar style. I think Cayers skating is gonig to do this for him as well

I mean we see guys who can fight never make the NHL cause they cant skate, and if they cant fight they cant forecheck and play a regular shift.. But Cayer will be one of the wings best skaters when he gets there so he'll be a wrecking ball and provide something the wings lack big time on forward. Callahan and Cayer on the wings of a fourth line would be a treat to watch

Edited by newfy, 01 December 2011 - 03:31 PM.

RIP BOB PROBERT #24






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users