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Say Goodbye to the C, Z.


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#1 Forecheck808

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:50 AM

Another great game by Datysuk, this time against Boston. Pavel had a slow start (as usual), but he's really brought back his game. All things considered, there's no doubt he'll be the next to lead the Wings. That Pasha magic is best in the league - bar none.

#2 stevkrause

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:54 AM

The "C" isn't just about the being the best player on the team, it's also about the most capable to lead and unfortunately for Pasha, the language barrier HAS to factor in there as well for communicating with refs, press events, team meetings, etc... when the unthinkable happens, the new captain will STILL be Z and if it's not, there's a better chance it would be Kronwall than Dats...

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#3 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:03 AM

I have to agree, Dats seems way too soft spoken to be our C. I love the guy but I don't think I could ever see him getting mad and yelling if our team was in a duty and needed its ass kicked... Much love for Pav though

#4 Nev

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:12 AM

Yep, they're also the face of the franchise in an English speaking, media hungry market. But you're right, in terms of work rate, work ethic, skill level, production, leadership etc he has everything you want in a captain.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#5 10 Minute Misconduct

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:51 AM

Some people still don't understand what it means to be captain lol Not to mention Z has been the best Red Wing the last 5 post seasons besides possibly last year.

But yea, he's off to a slow start...def not captain material anymore.

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#6 Bramsy

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:21 AM

Totally agree with others about not having to be the best to be a captain. Dats does indeed do magic, no questions asked, but lead by example doesnt always give you the 'C'.

to a degree Lids doesn't represent being a captain. he DOES do everything correct, but doesn't hammer guys or drop the gloves or get caught laying into guys for their mistakes...... u know?

he has earned the captaincy no doubt and and we know he has a great locker room presence. i was just trying to use him as an example.... do i think anybody else on the team could be a better captain than Nick, NO. even though he is, you don't have to be the best to be a captain.

hah, after rereading this, i should just delete it.

Edited by Bramsy, 26 November 2011 - 09:22 AM.

nothing witty



#7 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:31 AM

Helm. That is all. Posted Image

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#8 VM1138

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:38 AM

From an outsider's perspective, not having been in the locker room or knowing the players relationships personally, Kronwall and Zetterberg are best poised to be captains. We all know it will be Zetterberg, but even he I don't see laying into people. Kronwall I do. I'm not jumping off the Z bandwagon, he's going to be a force come the second half of the season and playoffs.
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#9 Seraph

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:46 AM

To be honest, I don't even think Datsyuk would accept the captaincy, probably for a lot of reasons that have been mentioned. I must say that I have been impressed by how Kronwall has carried himself in interviews and such. Z has always been great too. I think he's still being groomed for the C at this point.

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#10 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:57 PM

Holland has got to be pleading with Nick's wife to do everything in her power to convince him to keep playing.



#11 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:05 PM

I wouldn't mind if Pavel was given the captaincy.

He seems to be bringing it every game, which is the mark of a captain and leader. I haven't seen that from Zetterberg this season. Too many off games.

The fact that he speaks better English than Pavel is not as important as his play every night.
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#12 gcom007

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:48 PM

Not sure Datsyuk is really the right guy for all the reasons discussed already, though primarily the language barriers. I think he's more of a leader than people give him credit for though and wouldn't be a terrible choice at all. What has he not excelled at in his career (besides maybe the first few weeks of a season...ha...)? Generally speaking, I've been saying for years that Datsyuk is the heart and soul of this team when it really comes down to the game on the ice, as much or maybe even more than Lidstrom. Dats is to the offense what Nick is to the defense, but like Nick, his contributions on his opposite end are just as impressive as what they do in their positional roles. But again, still not sure if his English-level is really up to the task.

That said, I don't know how I feel about Z these days. He just seems spottier more and more as time passes since the back issues first crept up. He's still a great player, but he is not our best player at all. He does not instill fear into opponents like Datsyuk does. Datsyuk is a superstar among superstars, again, much like Lidstrom, whereas Zetterberg exists on the fringe of superstardom at this point at best.

I'm not trying to suggest that being the best has anything to do with being a good captain at all, but it absolutely has something to do with the decision making process at the very least. Obviously, a less than great player can be a great leader and captain, and a great player can be a terrible leader and captain. But great players who possess a strong character that matches their skill set stand a solid chance at growing into being great leaders and captains. You're going to be looked at as a leader if you're the best whether you want to be or not, so it's inevitable that being the best has something to do with being the captain. As Jimmy D said after Steve retired, "your captain is your best player."

And everyone talks about Steve setting the bar in a sense, but Steve didn't just become "The Captain." Before he was "The Captain," he was chosen to be the captain because he was the best player; he was the centerpiece of the organization. He became "The Captain" because frankly, there's likely less than two handfuls of athletes who were as much of a warrior than Steve Yzerman. What he did in the 2002 Playoff run is nearly unparalleled in all of sports. But none of that changes the fact that those reasons had nothing to do with why he was originally chosen to be captain. He started out as the captain because he was the best, and then became the best at being a captain and a leader when he wasn't necessarily the best player, quietly, without any pretense, and that's why he is "The Captain."

So clearly, being a leader of the magnitude that Steve Yzerman was is not where one starts out when becoming a captain, and that's why I'm not convinced that Pavel couldn't be the captain of this team and a great one at that over time. Z might be more similar to Yzerman as far as his playing career goes in being derailed offensively somewhat by injuries, but he wouldn't be starting out at captain as the best, or on top of his game. And like it or not, being the best does have something to do with the role.

But let's be clear about something: Nick retiring after this season is hardly a done deal. He obviously still has a lot of gas in the tank and there's really no reason other than a lack of motivation that he couldn't continue playing maybe even 4-5 more years. I don't know if he will, but I'm hardly convinced that he won't the way things are going. If he plays even another year or two past this year and you start looking at the next captain then, you've got a Zetterberg who will be closing in on his mid-30's, likely with more back issues and decreased output and more limited ice time, and chances are he won't be playing into his 40's like Nick who has managed to evade major or nagging injuries throughout most of his career. And with Datsyuk, while I could see him playing into his 40's more easily than Zetterberg, he's two years older than Z. Even Kronwall is already 30. These guys aren't spring chickens. If Lidstrom wasn't one of the absolute best players to play the game, he wouldn't have gotten the nod at his age, and only Datsyuk comes close to a Lidstrom-level of all-time greatness (obviously well behind Lids, but far ahead of Z).

Now, if Lidstrom retires next year, it'll obviously be Dats, Z or Kronwall (I think the matter would be discussed in that order personally, with Dats getting the nod so long as he was comfortable with it), but if he hangs around, I think we'll see the Wings looking to a younger player who has the potential to carry the torch for longer. I don't know who it could be (only a hope in a certain player stepping up in the next year or two) but I don't think it's a lock that Dats or Z will get it if Lids hangs around past this season.
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#13 Jocke

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

I wouldn't mind if Pavel was given the captaincy.

He seems to be bringing it every game, which is the mark of a captain and leader. I haven't seen that from Zetterberg this season. Too many off games.

The fact that he speaks better English than Pavel is not as important as his play every night.


It's not about how well he speaks the language. It's about character and what he says and does in the locker room (and on the ice obviously).

I just can't image Pavel standing up in the locker room when things are tough, giving that mighty ducks-speech :hehe:

#14 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

It's not about how well he speaks the language. It's about character and what he says and does in the locker room (and on the ice obviously).

I just can't image Pavel standing up in the locker room when things are tough, giving that mighty ducks-speech :hehe:


I've never been in their locker room, but honestly I can't imagine Zetterberg or Lidstrom giving that speech either. Heck, I've never personally heard Yzerman giving a big speech.

It's one of those things that goes on in the locker room that we don't get to see.
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#15 Dynheart

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:35 PM

I honestly think it will be Kronwall. The man has been stepping his game up every year for the last 3 years. And if it wasn't for injuries, he would have had career years last year or the year before. He's good with the press, he's a good team-mate AND he seems to lead by example...always seems to start the scoring when we need it.

I was always in favor of Zetts, but his passion for the game seems to be lacking...or atleast is "looks" like it on the ice. He could be injured, I don't know. I think Kronner will be giving Zetts a run for his money when the time comes.

It's not about how well he speaks the language. It's about character and what he says and does in the locker room (and on the ice obviously).

I just can't image Pavel standing up in the locker room when things are tough, giving that mighty ducks-speech :hehe:


Maybe not a might ducks speech...but remember Pavel is an out going guy. Just because his english is small, doesn't mean he doesn't like to express himself. I'm sure he communicates when they need it in his own goofy way. Sure, it may be hard to understand...but that's what makes him Pavel, and I'm sure that's why the guys in the locker room love him.

Edited by Dynheart, 26 November 2011 - 05:36 PM.


#16 Doc Holliday

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:43 PM

I've never been in their locker room, but honestly I can't imagine Zetterberg or Lidstrom giving that speech either. Heck, I've never personally heard Yzerman giving a big speech.

It's one of those things that goes on in the locker room that we don't get to see.


You don't remember the "I have to play better" speech from 1997?

That was local legend for a bit after they won it that year.
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#17 Jocke

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:06 PM

I've never been in their locker room, but honestly I can't imagine Zetterberg or Lidstrom giving that speech either. Heck, I've never personally heard Yzerman giving a big speech.

It's one of those things that goes on in the locker room that we don't get to see.


I honestly think it will be Kronwall. The man has been stepping his game up every year for the last 3 years. And if it wasn't for injuries, he would have had career years last year or the year before. He's good with the press, he's a good team-mate AND he seems to lead by example...always seems to start the scoring when we need it.

I was always in favor of Zetts, but his passion for the game seems to be lacking...or atleast is "looks" like it on the ice. He could be injured, I don't know. I think Kronner will be giving Zetts a run for his money when the time comes.

Maybe not a might ducks speech...but remember Pavel is an out going guy. Just because his english is small, doesn't mean he doesn't like to express himself. I'm sure he communicates when they need it in his own goofy way. Sure, it may be hard to understand...but that's what makes him Pavel, and I'm sure that's why the guys in the locker room love him.


I'm sure that when Pavel speaks, people listen. But I kinda imagine him being a quite guy in the locker room. But you are right, we can only speculate :)

Edited by Jocke, 26 November 2011 - 06:06 PM.


#18 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:30 PM

You don't remember the "I have to play better" speech from 1997?

That was local legend for a bit after they won it that year.


If only Hossa gave such a speech in 2009
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#19 Dimaline312000

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:07 PM

They are both great players, I really wouldn't care who get's it as long as it's the best man for the job.

#20 Jocke

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:22 PM

3 points so far. Booyah!





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