12/6 GDT : Red Wings 2 at Blues 3

[cprice12 117]

Stuart said as much in the press that it didn't look that bad.

I honestly I don't care if it was his fault or not. I'm happy with Jimmy going after guys that run into him. They should have to pay a price one way or another and in the heat of the moment it's hard for him to know how they toppled on top of him. Half the time when guys get bumped by defensemen they make sure to fall on the goalie.

And remember you're on a Wings site here. I think you make a valid case but the odds of people conceding the point here are slim, especially when you're being a bit of a smartass about it.

As for as Pronger's hit on Yzerman, of course he was going after him, but that's his job. I have no problem with that. I don't think Pronger was headhunting, but lowbridge my ass. Stevie saw Pronger coming at him arms and stick high, turned away from the play, but he was hardly even bent at the knees. And he stayed on his skates. That's not a lowbridge. What's Yzerman supposed to do, stand up straight and let Pronger crush him?

He went to hit Yzerman high and Stevie avoided the hit. Pronger physics worked against him on that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_fmWpcbag

My smartassness came as a response to someone being a smartass to me. So I was just playing along.

And you're wrong. Yzerman was bend over pretty much at 90 degrees when Pronger hit him. All you have to do is stop the video when they collide...which I did. I don't blame Yzerman for ducking the hit at all...but don't say he didn't low bridge Pronger...because Yzerman bent over at 90 degrees and making contact with Pronger's knee when Pronger went to hit him is indeed low-bridging. He didn't meant to hurt Pronger, I'm sure...it wasn't dirty...but it is what it is. He went low on Pronger. Period.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Uh, I have news for you...it's not a penalty if a defensive player checks an offensive player into the defense's goalie. Yes, the offensive player needs to avoid contact, but if he cannot avoid contact due to the check, then it is not a penalty. Bad call.

Perron couldn't avoid the collision at all, he was skating in front and then he was checked off balance and driven into Howard by Stuart.

Damn those physics.

Stuart's reaction tells you all you need to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RavZc_xIvz8

That doesn't look like the reaction of a defenseman who just saw his goalie get run. That's the reaction of a defenseman who just checked a guy into his own goalie and is hoping he isn't getting a penalty himself. Heck, it should have been interference on Stuart.

And as far as the Yzerman/Pronger play goes...it's funny how Wings fans/media say Pronger was headhunting and "going after" Yzerman on that play. He was going to check him...what a concept eh? Yzerman did have the puck afterall...but he ducked and took out Pronger's knee. It's not hard to see why some Blues fans would say Yzerman low-bridged Pronger. It was a bang-bang play and Yzerman went low on Pronger. Obviously both sides are going to view that play differently.

uh....ya, seeing that replay, especially the ice level one from :51 to the end, it obviously shows Perron being hooked by Stuart, but that hook doesn't cause Perron to raise his opposite arm up and lunge into Howard. It was a common hockey play, all players try to get away with it, it is sort of like a Cindy dive, he was being hooked and took the opportunity to embellish it by lunging into the goalie hoping to draw the penalty on Stuart and get the free shot on Howard...

...Pronger play? You lose. Pronger was going high on Yzerman and Yzerman ducked and Pronger's big body caused him to flip over top and bust his knee. He did it to himself. He was trying to check him? Ya, I believe even back then it was a dirty play to try to check someone with your forearms up going towards their head, Yzerman just ducked and Pronger got what he deserved, yet you guys seem to think that Yzerman should've just stood there and not tried to avoid the hit and take two forearms to the head. The funny thing is, even though the Wings were eventual Champs that year, the Blues were doing well against them that round, that is, until Pronger tried to take out an opposing player and in turn, took himself out of the series and was a big reason why they lost to us (again)

[LeftWinger 4,936]

My smartassness came as a response to someone being a smartass to me. So I was just playing along.

And you're wrong. Yzerman was bend over pretty much at 90 degrees when Pronger hit him. All you have to do is stop the video when they collide...which I did. I don't blame Yzerman for ducking the hit at all...but don't say he didn't low bridge Pronger...because Yzerman bent over at 90 degrees and making contact with Pronger's knee when Pronger went to hit him is indeed low-bridging. He didn't meant to hurt Pronger, I'm sure...it wasn't dirty...but it is what it is. He went low on Pronger. Period.

He ducked out of they way of a jackass known for cheapshots...Same thing happens when you put a retard in the same class as a scholar, one thinks his way through, the other just runs around drooling, banging into everything...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

My smartassness came as a response to someone being a smartass to me. So I was just playing along.

And you're wrong. Yzerman was bend over pretty much at 90 degrees when Pronger hit him. All you have to do is stop the video when they collide...which I did. I don't blame Yzerman for ducking the hit at all...but don't say he didn't low bridge Pronger...because Yzerman bent over at 90 degrees and making contact with Pronger's knee when Pronger went to hit him is indeed low-bridging. He didn't meant to hurt Pronger, I'm sure...it wasn't dirty...but it is what it is. He went low on Pronger. Period.

No, you're wrong. See, I can play that game too.

Bent over at 90 degrees? You realize I can freeze frame too, right? And at the point of contact he is far from bent over 90 degrees.

Even if that was true, through the entire hit Stevie's legs are nearly straight up. He's only bent at the waist. That's not a low brige. Lowbridging is when you bail completely out of a hit, essentially falling or ducking way down so your body primarily contacts the guys knees, which is why it is dangerous. It was essentially like a hip check, which happens sometimes when a guy is going at you high. But if you stay upright like Stevie did, it's more of hip to hip contact.

Making contact with Pronger's knees? You remember that Pronger was the one doing the hitting, right? Any knee contact is his own damn fault. It's not like Yzerman flared out a knee or anything. Yzerman didn't go low on Pronger. He was the one being hit. He just turned and bent to protect himself from getting a mouthful of elbow and stick.

It's good to have fans from other teams here and get an outside perspective, but you're losing credibility with every post.

Edited December 7, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I didn't see the game last night, but my worry is that they were once again beat with a fast physical forecheck. It definitely gets them rattled and suddenly it's turnovers galore. They start losing puck battles and it snowballs.

Refs took the entire game out of whack. A phantom high stick, tripping calls for no reason, and holds out of nowhere.

It really was a frustrating game to watch, especially since Detroit's PK was abysmal.

[wings_fanatic 677]

Our PK has never been the same as it was in 2008 ever since Babs stopped using Pavs and Z consistently on one of the PK units. He needs to have SET PK UNITS because right now it seems that he just throws random players out there and that there are no disignated units.

PK1:

Datsyuk- Zetterberg

Lidstrom- White

PK2:

Helm- Filpulla

Kronwall- Stuart

I think these 2 penality killing units would CONSISTENTLY get the job done.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

3 Losses to Blues this season... there not a bad team but no way we should have lost 3/3 to them. They really need to get another top 6, without Flip the team looks way worse.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Now St. Louis has our number, along with San Jose .

Why do friends or ex-coaching staff of Babcock always get the best of him ??

[Kerjuxaxaxa 6]

2 Losses to Blues this season... there not a bad team but no way we should have lost 3/3 to them. They really need to get another top 6, without Flip the team looks way worse.

corrected it for ya.

[Jack T Adams 1]

I don't see any evidence that Stuart forced Perron into Howard. A nudge doesn't result in what Perron did. It was far worse than Abdelkader accidentally hitting Elliott in the head with an errant elbow and Elliott flopping like he got shot. I also noted Oshie was diving all night as well. The Blues looked a lot like the last two playoff series against the Sharks. The refs seemed to catch everything except the Blues diving and the interference in their own zone.

Nice "Red Wings suck" chant though while your rafters are empty.

Rafters were not empty. Last non-sellout in St. Louis was in 2009. 54 consecutive sellouts despite missing playoffs last season.

The video speaks for itself. Perron is clearly pushed into his direction at the side of the crease. Often times an opposing player makes contact as a result of a push toward the goalie by goalie's teammate. It is a quick game and if the ref realizes it a penalty is not called.

Article:

According the Blues, Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard got away with throwing a few punches at David Perron Tuesday night.

With 2:43 left in the third period of the Blues' 3-2 win over the Red Wings, a game that was 3-1 at the time, Perron was pushed into Howard by Detroit defenseman Brad Stuart. Howard angrily jumped to his feet and went after Perron, eventually landing on top of him and tossing some jabs.

"I'm not taking that," Howard said after the game. "I don't care who it is. If you're going to run me like that or try to go through me like that, you're going to pay the price."

Perron was penalized for goaltender interference despite being pushed by Stuart. Afterwards, Stuart said that he didn't believe Perron did anything wrong.

"He couldn't stop himself from going into him," Stuart said. "It wasn't a real harmful collision, I didn't feel. He certainly didn't try to get out of the way, which you don't like to see. But I didn't feel like he ran in with a whole lot of force."

After today's practice, Perron desribed the play from his perspective.

"It's a quick play, bang-bang, and I tipped it on goal," Perron said. "(Howard) slides across. I think at least half of his body was outside the crease. I'm trying to avoid him but (Stuart) pushed me into him. I understand the goalies want to have that security in the net, not to get hit, but when you get pushed in, it's tough to avoid contact."

Perron was playing only his second game back after 10 1/2 months off with a concussion, and like fans who winced when Howard was throwing punches, so was No. 57.

"I was just trying to protect myself because obviously I didn't want to get one in the head or something," Perron said.

That drew more players over, but there were no fights. When the dust settled, Perron skated to the penalty box with the lone penalty. He couldn't believe that Howard was penalized.

"To be honest, I'm surprised he didn't get an extra penalty for that," Perron said. "Because their d-man pushed me in, and then he jumps on me. At the end of the game, it should at least be even. It's tough because they scored a big goal. If it's only 2-1 for us, and they tie it up, then we have to fight back from a call like that. But in the end, we move on."

At the other end of the ice, Blues goalie Brian Elliott said he watched the situation in amazement. Earlier in the period, Elliott was knocked in the head by Detroit's Justin Abdelkader, who received a charging penalty.

"Howard jumps on and doesn't get a penalty for it?" Elliott said. "I asked the ref on the ice if I could do the same thing if I got hit again. I don't know ... that's why I think you need to keep fighting in the game because you almost need to police yourself out there."

I'll have more on the hot topic of goaltender interference in tomorrow's newspaper.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/blues-question-no-call-on-detroit-goalie-howard/article_1a8cad88-211a-11e1-961a-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1ftQtNu2R

[wings_fanatic 677]

What it comes down to is this. Howard has played great all season, along with Nicklas Lidstrom, Filpulla and Kronners. Those are the only 4 that have been good ALL SEASON LONG. Now, Pavel has been MUCH more like himself ever since after that game against the Sharks, so he is on the list of players fulfilling their jobs. Franzen and Bert have both found a home with Pavel on the top line and are doing their part. Cleary has been picking things up since being on the 3rd line where he belongs. Now, I could go on and name certain players for doing their jobs, but Henrik Zetterberg is not one of the players that I can name. Is he playing BAD? No- - by no means is he playing bad. The problem is that he is not playing like what we expect of him, or what the team expects of him. We really need Hank to get going and start scoring goals for us and help carry some offense for our team when we need it. If Babs does not get Hank going, then I do not see a far look into the playoffs for the boys in Red this season.

We all know Henrik Zetterberg is an outstanding hockey player, but he has yet to show that this season. Pavel called himself out and has since been playing much more like himself and has been putting up the necessary numbers that we, and he, expects of him. If we want to be as successful as we can, it is time for Zetterberg to do the same.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

So you Blues fans think Howard is an ass for being upset, but Elliott can speak freely when earlier in the game he took an embarassing flop? He shouldn't comment about the situation with Howard. Elliott couldn't jump in anyways if he got hit like Howard because he would be flopping around on the ice. I'm surprised he can talk at all after that malicious hit he suffered last night.

Laughable that Perron is bitching about that one play too having a possible negative impact on the game. Did he miss the Drew Miller "high stick"? Of course anything you present is going to be slanted in the Blues favor. Do you come here expecting Red Wings fans to agree?

Also, my rafters comment was implying the lack of banners hanging from it. The Red Wings suck according to your fanbase, yet it's awfully bare above the ice in that arena.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

f*** Elliot. He talks a big game after it's over but Howard would wip the floor with him in a goalie fight

[Cajanek_Spielmacher 47]

Remember what happened the last time A Detroit goalie wanted to fight in a Blues game? Probably under the age of 25. Look up CUJO!!

[AceInTheSleeve 97]

Remember what happened the last time A Detroit goalie wanted to fight in a Blues game? Probably under the age of 25. Look up CUJO!!

Remember the last time the blues made the playoffs? Me neither...

[Cajanek_Spielmacher 47]

SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS? 25 years in a row and as recently as 3 seasons ago? Under 25 then is the answer?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS? 25 years in a row and as recently as 3 seasons ago? Under 25 then is the answer?

Stop talking.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS? 25 years in a row and as recently as 3 seasons ago? Under 25 then is the answer?

Maybe he meant the last time they won a playoff series? When was that, a decade ago?

[vladdy16 2,154]

SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS? 25 years in a row and as recently as 3 seasons ago? Under 25 then is the answer?

That truly was a great record - making the playoffs 25 years in a row. It's just such a shame that the Blues couldn't do anything once they got there.

[cprice12 117]

Yes, I agree that this looks like a stupid comment after watching the replay. But in Jimmy's defense, he said this before he saw the replay. I'm guessing that watching replays before players are interviewed by the media almost never happens. If he had said this some time after the game, you would have an argument.

In Jimmy's defense? What?

That is my whole point.

Don't run your mouth until you are sure and have seen a replay. You just come off looking like a fool.

He could have said something along the lines of, "I haven't seen the replay yet, but I felt he took a run at me, so I reacted. I'll have to take a look and see what really happened."

That would have been a better way to go.

And I'm sure they put the replay up on the scoreboard. Players look up there quite often to see what transpired. He may have seen the replay and chose not to call out his defenseman for driving Perron into him.

[cprice12 117]

Remember the last time the blues made the playoffs? Me neither...

New to the sport eh?

3 years ago.

And a couple years before that... does 25 years in a row ring a bell?

[cprice12 117]

I don't see any evidence that Stuart forced Perron into Howard. A nudge doesn't result in what Perron did. It was far worse than Abdelkader accidentally hitting Elliott in the head with an errant elbow and Elliott flopping like he got shot. I also noted Oshie was diving all night as well. The Blues looked a lot like the last two playoff series against the Sharks. The refs seemed to catch everything except the Blues diving and the interference in their own zone.

Nice "Red Wings suck" chant though while your rafters are empty.

Are you f'ing kidding me?

No evidence at all? How blind are you? Give me a break.

Both Stuart and Perron said contact couldn't be avoided. Perron was skating in front and Stuart checked him into Howard. It's not a difficult play to analyze at all if you objectively look at it without bias.

Elliot flopped back, sure...but that still doesn't change the fact Abdelkader drove into him pretty hard...without being pushed or directed into Elliot. Abdelkader deserved a penalty for being careless...and Elliot could have gotten a diving penalty if you want to get picky.

But hey, you guys are the experts on goalie dives...Hasek did play for you guys for a while.

And if you give Perron a penalty, you absolutly have to give Howard a penalty for jumping on top of Perron and taking a few shots. I don't think Blues fans would have been nearly as upset if Howard would have gotten a penalty as well and things evened out...but he didn't, and they didn't. So instead of one bad call on the play, there are two...a bad call and a bad no-call...which resulted in a goal for Detroit on the PP.

An absolute gift from the officials.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I've never seen a fanbase whine so much about a game they won.

Elliott COULD have gotten a diving penalty? More like it was a disgrace he didn't.

[cprice12 117]

I've never seen a fanbase whine so much about a game they won.

Elliott COULD have gotten a diving penalty? More like it was a disgrace he didn't.

Not near as much of a disgrace as it was when Howard didn't get a penalty for attacking Perron.

And when a fan favorite and key member of the future of this team comes back from a year long absence due to a concussion, and in his 2nd game back he is wrongly attacked by a guy and has to dodge punches to his face...yeah, the fans are going to be a little upset that he wasn't penalized...it's not surprising they want to talk about it. I'd say it would be very strange for fans to not care about that incident and only care about the fact the Blues won.

Perron himself said he had to try to make sure he didn't catch one of the punches in the head.

But I guess I'm talking to a wall here. You guys have your blinders on.

Fair enough.

[wings_fanatic 677]

I think this is a pointless argument because in the end, no matter what team, we will see it as homers, just like fans of other teams will see it from their "homer" perspective. Take this for instance. We Wings fans always complain about when Homer gets cross-checked in front of the opponents net or when the goalie goes after him and such because OUR player is the victim in our eyes. Reverse the situation, like against the Blues, and their guy going to the net is to blame and our defenseman and goalie have the right to knock around, punch or cross check whoever on the other team. I understand where the Blues fan is coming from, I would not be too thrilled if Pavs came back from a lengthy injury and made a move to the net, pissed the goalie off and started getting punched in the head.

We are all loyal fans of hockey and none of us want to admit when someone on our team did something wrong (unless they are amongst the unfortunate few who get hated on by everyone such as cleary or hudler).