12/6 GDT : Red Wings 2 at Blues 3

[VM1138 1,921]

....and the losing streak begins. This team just doesn't get it. This is not the old NHL. I love how we lose to the same teams over and over without any fire.

It does worry me that we can't seem to beat St. Louis anymore, or San Jose, and I think Minnesota is falling into this category, too, though I may be wrong. And we get beaten the same way ever time.

San Jose: Longer reach and cycling play, lucky bounces.

St. Louis: Can't seem to connect passes and everything gets blocked.

Minnesota: Not sure what it is, but have we beaten them yet this year?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

....and the losing streak begins. This team just doesn't get it. This is not the old NHL. I love how we lose to the same teams over and over without any fire.

How did the 08 Wings do against the Blackhawks that season?

[ami 273]

How did the 08 Wings do against the Blackhawks that season?

3-4-0-1

goals for Detroit: 22

goals against Detroit: 24

[clutchngrab 12]

Babcock needs to do a better job with this team in regards to a loss. They should not be winning a bunch of games in a row and then losing a bunch in a row. They should be able to respond to losing with a win the next game because that is what the playoffs is all about. All in all, this is no big problem, we know what the Wings are capable of and I expect Fil will play Thurs and we will dominate once again. Wings regroup and lets play hockey on Thursday!

Babcock is a pretty good system coach, but a pretty poor bench coach in general. I really don't know why he doesn't adjust playing time and line combos based on the evidence in front of his face on any given night. It seems pretty simple: every line needs a corner guy, a play-maker and a shooter. If you mix up lines on the fly, then make sure the roles are covered. For example, tonight Helm looked very good and his speed could have countered the Blues aggressiveness. So maybe, just maybe, put him om the second line w/ Z when we see the hitchcock system smothers guys like Hudler or Cleary. The wings are too predictable and too easy to beat if a team runs a disciplined system and we don't have the skill we used to. Plus, I'm guessing Babcock doesn't "engage" the players like he used to.

Scotty was the best at that and I don't think it was an accident that he won so many cups and pissed off so many egos...

At the end of the day, whether you want to blame the players or the coach losing in the stanley cup finals with a 3-2 lead is never reconciled between the coach and the players. It's the same reason Vancouver won't be back. I think this phenomena haunts babcock and the team. Babcock's time has run its course, but Holland has no real balls in any kind of personnel changes.

Edited December 7, 2011 by clutchngrab

[chrisdetroit 189]

Let's recap. The Wings wing their first 5 then go 0-5-1 and LGW melts down. So what do they do next. They go 11-2. Yes, eleven wins, two losses. They follow that with 2 close losses to Colorado and St. Louis, both on the road.

They are in the top 5 in the league in GFA, GAA, Shots, Shots Against, points, and win percentage. Jimmy is near the top of the league in wins, GAA, and save %.

But still, the two losses result in a meltdown on LGW....

Dump Z and bring up Nyquist.

Unbelievable

[Nightfall 871]

Let's recap. The Wings wing their first 5 then go 0-5-1 and LGW melts down. So what do they do next. They go 11-2. Yes, eleven wins, two losses. They follow that with 2 close losses to Colorado and St. Louis, both on the road.

They are in the top 5 in the league in GFA, GAA, Shots, Shots Against, points, and win percentage. Jimmy is near the top of the league in wins, GAA, and save %.

But still, the two losses result in a meltdown on LGW....

Dump Z and bring up Nyquist.

Unbelievable

I agree with this thread. Excellent post.

[Esquire 324]

Let's recap. The Wings wing their first 5 then go 0-5-1 and LGW melts down. So what do they do next. They go 11-2. Yes, eleven wins, two losses. They follow that with 2 close losses to Colorado and St. Louis, both on the road.

They are in the top 5 in the league in GFA, GAA, Shots, Shots Against, points, and win percentage. Jimmy is near the top of the league in wins, GAA, and save %.

But still, the two losses result in a meltdown on LGW....

Dump Z and bring up Nyquist.

Unbelievable

I'm not condoning a meltdown, and all those stats are nice, but 2 games (4 points) are what separates the Wings from a 3-way tie for 9th place at the moment.

Just saying.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Ty Conklin™: When you want to turn a winning streak into a losing streak.

Seriously though, I agree with chrisdetroit's post. Let's just hope they don't lose a few more, the West is too close this year to afford losing streaks every now and then.

[cprice12 117]

Horribly, horribly reffed game...again. Bad calls and bad non-calls on both teams.

Not sure how Perron got a Penalty for making contact with Howard when he was blatantly checked into him. Perron wasn't even on line to make contact until he was checked off course and into Howard...and I'm not sure why Howard got nothing for attacking Perron. That was a joke. That's kind of the talk of St. Louis sports radio and message boards right now.

Howards's comments after the game make him sound like an idiot...sorry. He needs to look at the replay. Besides, like Perron is going to "take a run" at Howard after being out over a full calendar year with a concussion? Uh, no...and then for Howard to jump on top of him and start wailing away?? Please...that's bush league.

Honestly , I've never liked Howard. Sure, part of it is because he is a Wing and the Wings are hated rivals in St. Louis...but in some of the games I've seen him play he has just come off as an ass. Just my observation...and maybe it's just the games I've seen. Of course, I'm sure I'd love that in a goalie on my own team, but when it's the opposition, it pisses me off. Just one of those things I guess.

Edited December 7, 2011 by cprice12

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Horribly, horribly reffed game...again. Bad calls and bad non-calls on both teams.

Not sure how Perron got a Penalty for making contact with Howard when he was blatantly checked into him. Perron wasn't even on line to make contact until he was checked off course and into Howard...and I'm not sure why Howard got nothing for attacking Perron. That was a joke. That's kind of the talk of St. Louis sports radio and message boards right now.

Howards's comments after the game make him sound like an idiot...sorry. He needs to look at the replay. Besides, like Perron is going to "take a run" at Howard after being out over a full calendar year with a concussion? Uh, no...and then for Howard to jump on top of him and start wailing away?? Please...that's bush league.

Honestly , I've never liked Howard. Sure, part of it is because he is a Wing and the Wings are hated rivals in St. Louis...but in some of the games I've seen him play he has just come off as an ass. Just my observation...and maybe it's just the games I've seen. Of course, I'm sure I'd love that in a goalie on my own team, but when it's the opposition, it pisses me off. Just one of those things I guess.

Howard felt he got run and defended himself. That isn't bush league at all.

Did you say the same thing when Miller went after Tootoo?

Also, if St. Louis sports talk is focused on a single penalty when they were the beneficiary of plenty of ridiculous calls THEIR way which came in a game THEY WON, your city has some issues.

[cprice12 117]

Howard felt he got run and defended himself. That isn't bush league at all.

Did you say the same thing when Miller went after Tootoo?

Also, if St. Louis sports talk is focused on a single penalty when they were the beneficiary of plenty of ridiculous calls THEIR way which came in a game THEY WON, your city has some issues.

A goalie wrongly going after Perron, who just came back from a year out due to a concussion, and punching him numerous times while he was down on his back, was uncalled for. The Perron comeback is the talk of the town. It wasn't just a single penalty...it was a non-call on a goalie who went after our guy, who just came back from a concussion, by punching him in the head numerous times.

But I can understand the situation from Howard's point of view. I disagree with him, but I get it...he felt he got ran, fine. But use your brain and look at who you are going after. Can you imagine the media coverage if Howard went after Crosby like that, punching him in the head? After he came back from his concussion? They'd be all over it.

HOWEVER, my main problem with Howard was his comments after the game...they were assholish...especially if he saw the replay (which he may not have at the time...if not, he needs to look at it before running his mouth to the press). Perron was not at fault at all.

I had no problem with Miller going after Tootoo...he's a POS and Miller has every right to feel Tootoo did it on purpoase, that's who Tootoo is. HOWEVER, it looked to me like Tootoo tried to jump over Miller but failed. I don't think he was headhunting...but that doesn't mean it wasn't a reckless/careless play. Miller was in the right. Howard wasn't.

Edited December 7, 2011 by cprice12

[chrisdetroit 189]

I'm not condoning a meltdown, and all those stats are nice, but 2 games (4 points) are what separates the Wings from a 3-way tie for 9th place at the moment.

Just saying.

So what. It's December not March. The standings are ridiculously close. They also are only 6 points out of first overall with 2 games in hand. Forget the point totals because they have played less games. If you look at winning percentage (or more accurately point percentage) they are at .635 which over an 82 game season equates to 112 points. There are only 2 teams in the West that are above that - Minnesota and Chicago.

If they win their 2 games in hand the Wings are 2 points out of first overall.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

A goalie wrongly going after Perron, who just came back from a year out due to a concussion, and punching him numerous times while he was down on his back, was uncalled for. The Perron comeback is the talk of the town. It wasn't just a single penalty...it was a non-call on a goalie who went after our guy, who just came back from a concussion, by punching him in the head numerous times.

Check the replay. He pushes on Perron. He doesn't throw haymakers.

Also, Perron isn't any more likely to receive a concussion if he has been cleared for play after receiving one. If he does have more of a risk, that is his doctors fault for clearing him too early.

But I can understand the situation from Howard's point of view. I disagree with him, but I get it...he felt he got ran, fine. But use your brain and look at who you are going after. Can you imagine the media coverage if Howard went after Crosby like that, punching him in the head? After he came back from his concussion? They'd be all over it.

Howard didn't punch Perron in the head. Also Howard has gone after Crosby before in the same manner.

HOWEVER, my main problem with Howard was his comments after the game...they were assholish...especially if he saw the replay (which he may not have at the time...if not, he needs to look at it before running his mouth to the press). Perron was not at fault at all.

Link to quotes?

I had no problem with Miller going after Tootoo...he's a POS and Miller has every right to feel Tootoo did it on purpoase, that's who Tootoo is. HOWEVER, it looked to me like Tootoo tried to jump over Miller but failed. I don't think he was headhunting...but that doesn't mean it wasn't a reckless/careless play. Miller was in the right. Howard wasn't.

Howard was right to react to having a player run over him. Much better than just sitting there and taking it.

[chrisdetroit 189]

A goalie wrongly going after Perron, who just came back from a year out due to a concussion, and punching him numerous times while he was down on his back, was uncalled for. The Perron comeback is the talk of the town. It wasn't just a single penalty...it was a non-call on a goalie who went after our guy, who just came back from a concussion, by punching him in the head numerous times.

But I can understand the situation from Howard's point of view. I disagree with him, but I get it...he felt he got ran, fine. But use your brain and look at who you are going after. Can you imagine the media coverage if Howard went after Crosby like that, punching him in the head? After he came back from his concussion? They'd be all over it.

HOWEVER, my main problem with Howard was his comments after the game...they were assholish...especially if he saw the replay (which he may not have at the time...if not, he needs to look at it before running his mouth to the press). Perron was not at fault at all.

I had no problem with Miller going after Tootoo...he's a POS and Miller has every right to feel Tootoo did it on purpoase, that's who Tootoo is. HOWEVER, it looked to me like Tootoo tried to jump over Miller but failed. I don't think he was headhunting...but that doesn't mean it wasn't a reckless/careless play. Miller was in the right. Howard wasn't.

Howard lost his mind. He felt like he got run and went after the guy. Replays show that Peron was pushed into him. In the heat of the battle, Howard didn't think that he was pushed. As far as Peron being back from concussion, that is irrelevant in Howard's mind (my assumption). Howard is in no way a dirty player and I doubt that he put any thought into Peron's concussion.

The next day after looking at the replay, we can say Howard was wrong but it's alot different in the heat of the battle. Fortunately, nobody got hurt on either side.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I only saw the highlights (or lowlights as the case may be) but I love this quote from Jimmy regarding getting hit in the crease.

"I’m not taking that. I don’t care who it is," Howard said. "If you’re going to run me like that or try to go through me like that, you’re going to pay the price."

It's sad that our goaltender has to be the one making guys pay the price for coming in the blue paint, but at least someone is. Jimmy bringing a little Hextall!

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I only saw the highlights (or lowlights as the case may be) but I love this quote from Jimmy regarding getting hit in the crease.

It's sad that our goaltender has to be the one making guys pay the price for coming in the blue paint, but at least someone is. Jimmy bringing a little Hextall!

I'd love to see more of that.

[cprice12 117]

"I’m not taking that. I don’t care who it is," Howard said. "If you’re going to run me like that or try to go through me like that, you’re going to pay the price."

That's the quote I'm referring to.

He just sounds like an idiot because Perron didn't "run him".

His own guy was the cause of the issue, not Perron.

Check out a replay before you run your mouth to the press.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

That's the quote I'm referring to.

He just sounds like an idiot because Perron didn't "run him".

His own guy was the cause of the issue, not Perron.

Check out a replay before you run your mouth to the press.

ummm.....seen it. The onus is on Perron to do what he can to not hit the goalie, pushed or not. Period. Just because you get pushed, doesn't mean you can just let yourself go into the goalie, what's next, if someone pushes you offside, it's not really offside? But this is coming from a city and a fanbase, if you recall, that blamed Yzerman for Chris Pronger running at him, missing and destroying his knee that kept him out of the rest of the playoff round. All Yzerman did was duck, yet according to these same fans and media, Yzerman was at fault....damn those physics...

Edited December 7, 2011 by LeftWinger

[cprice12 117]

ummm.....seen it. The onus is on Perron to do what he can to not hit the goalie, pushed or not. Period. Just because you get pushed, doesn't mean you can just let yourself go into the goalie, what's next, if someone pushes you offside, it's not really offside? But this is coming from a city and a fanbase, if you recall, that blamed Yzerman for Chris Pronger running at him, missing and destroying his knee that kept him out of the rest of the playoff round. All Yzerman did was duck, yet according to these same fans and media, Yzerman was at fault....damn those physics...

Uh, I have news for you...it's not a penalty if a defensive player checks an offensive player into the defense's goalie. Yes, the offensive player needs to avoid contact, but if he cannot avoid contact due to the check, then it is not a penalty. Bad call.

Perron couldn't avoid the collision at all, he was skating in front and then he was checked off balance and driven into Howard by Stuart.

Damn those physics.

Stuart's reaction tells you all you need to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RavZc_xIvz8

That doesn't look like the reaction of a defenseman who just saw his goalie get run. That's the reaction of a defenseman who just checked a guy into his own goalie and is hoping he isn't getting a penalty himself. Heck, it should have been interference on Stuart.

And as far as the Yzerman/Pronger play goes...it's funny how Wings fans/media say Pronger was headhunting and "going after" Yzerman on that play. He was going to check him...what a concept eh? Yzerman did have the puck afterall...but he ducked and took out Pronger's knee. It's not hard to see why some Blues fans would say Yzerman low-bridged Pronger. It was a bang-bang play and Yzerman went low on Pronger. Obviously both sides are going to view that play differently.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Uh, I have news for you...it's not a penalty if a defensive player checks an offensive player into the defense's goalie. Yes, the offensive player needs to avoid contact, but if he cannot avoid contact due to the check, then it is not a penalty. Bad call.

Perron couldn't avoid the collision at all, he was skating in front and then he was checked off balance and driven into Howard by Stuart.

Damn those physics.

Stuart's reaction tells you all you need to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RavZc_xIvz8

That doesn't look like the reaction of a defenseman who just saw his goalie get run. That's the reaction of a defenseman who just checked a guy into his own goalie and is hoping he isn't getting a penalty himself. Heck, it should have been interference on Stuart.

And as far as the Yzerman/Pronger play goes...it's funny how Wings fans/media say Pronger was headhunting and "going after" Yzerman on that play. He was going to check him...what a concept eh? Yzerman did have the puck afterall...but he ducked and took out Pronger's knee. It's not hard to see why some Blues fans would say Yzerman low-bridged Pronger. It was a bang-bang play and Yzerman went low on Pronger. Obviously both sides are going to view that play differently.

Stuart said as much in the press that it didn't look that bad.

I honestly I don't care if it was his fault or not. I'm happy with Jimmy going after guys that run into him. They should have to pay a price one way or another and in the heat of the moment it's hard for him to know how they toppled on top of him. Half the time when guys get bumped by defensemen they make sure to fall on the goalie.

And remember you're on a Wings site here. I think you make a valid case but the odds of people conceding the point here are slim, especially when you're being a bit of a smartass about it.

As for as Pronger's hit on Yzerman, of course he was going after him, but that's his job. I have no problem with that. I don't think Pronger was headhunting, but lowbridge my ass. Stevie saw Pronger coming at him arms and stick high, turned away from the play, but he was hardly even bent at the knees. And he stayed on his skates. That's not a lowbridge. What's Yzerman supposed to do, stand up straight and let Pronger crush him?

He went to hit Yzerman high and Stevie avoided the hit. Pronger physics worked against him on that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_fmWpcbag

Edited December 7, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[chrisdetroit 189]

That's the quote I'm referring to.

He just sounds like an idiot because Perron didn't "run him".

His own guy was the cause of the issue, not Perron.

Check out a replay before you run your mouth to the press.

Yes, I agree that this looks like a stupid comment after watching the replay. But in Jimmy's defense, he said this before he saw the replay. I'm guessing that watching replays before players are interviewed by the media almost never happens. If he had said this some time after the game, you would have an argument.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yes, I agree that this looks like a stupid comment after watching the replay. But in Jimmy's defense, he said this before he saw the replay. I'm guessing that watching replays before players are interviewed by the media almost never happens. If he had said this some time after the game, you would have an argument.

Exactly.

It's not like they skate off the ice, watch a recap of the game, then talk to the media.

[vladdy16 2,154]

Who'd have thought a change in coaches could make such a difference for a team so quickly? Kudos to Hitchcock, and I despise the SOB from his Dallas days.

As for the game, once again the Wings were outplayed. There were outside forces that didn't help any, but with the way the Wings are playing, it doesn't matter. I get that people have bad games, teams have bad games, but how can they play so spectacularly for 4 games and then act like they're out of their element the next 2? The difference is amazing and inexplicable to me.

As far as the Blues go, they have never been a rivalry for me. I hate Pronger with the passion of a thousand blazing suns, but since he's gone on to Philly, I don't think twice about the Blues. If they continue to play the way they have, that may change in the very near future.

And how anyone can look at the video haroldsnepts posted and come away thinking Pronger was lowbridged is beyond me. It was karma, pure and simple.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Who'd have thought a change in coaches could make such a difference for a team so quickly? Kudos to Hitchcock, and I despise the SOB from his Dallas days.

As for the game, once again the Wings were outplayed. There were outside forces that didn't help any, but with the way the Wings are playing, it doesn't matter. I get that people have bad games, teams have bad games, but how can they play so spectacularly for 4 games and then act like they're out of their element the next 2? The difference is amazing and inexplicable to me.

As far as the Blues go, they have never been a rivalry for me. I hate Pronger with the passion of a thousand blazing suns, but since he's gone on to Philly, I don't think twice about the Blues. If they continue to play the way they have, that may change in the very near future.

And how anyone can look at the video haroldsnepts posted and come away thinking Pronger was lowbridged is beyond me. It was karma, pure and simple.

I didn't see the game last night, but my worry is that they were once again beat with a fast physical forecheck. It definitely gets them rattled and suddenly it's turnovers galore. They start losing puck battles and it snowballs.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Elliott embellished there. I saw Hasek do a lot of embellishments. Were the wings a disgrace then? Howie also overreacted to the collision afterwards. Perron was nudged by Stuart and he may have avoided contact with Howie otherwise. He landed on him to the side of the net. Howie immediately went after him and Howie did not get a roughing call for retaliation after Perron made contact with him following Stuart's nudge of Perron, which resulted in a pp and ppg. It works both ways.

I don't see any evidence that Stuart forced Perron into Howard. A nudge doesn't result in what Perron did. It was far worse than Abdelkader accidentally hitting Elliott in the head with an errant elbow and Elliott flopping like he got shot. I also noted Oshie was diving all night as well. The Blues looked a lot like the last two playoff series against the Sharks. The refs seemed to catch everything except the Blues diving and the interference in their own zone.

Nice "Red Wings suck" chant though while your rafters are empty.