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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, gcom007 said:

but Howard and Mrazek definitely had animosity

I bet you definitely have something to back this claim up too...

4 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

and Howard didn’t exactly help make anything a smooth transition; it was clear he was butthurt and not team-first in plenty of interviews. Great example for Mrazek in his young career and exactly what he needs to be dealing with especially in an overly veteran-friendly organization.

Ok post one of these interviews

Regardless, I expect Howard to be butt hurt. Man lost his job. That's not an excuse for Mrazek completely dropping the ball and losing the job. You're doubling-down on the logic I just criticized you for.

6 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

And the point was Rittich is clearly the starter and Talbot the backup. No confusion. No ******* with confidence. I think it’s all a little ridiculous too, but you hear that s*** all the time from hockey people and goalies in particular, and watching enough butthurt Howard interviews back in the day it was pretty obvious that locker room was in a weird place. Mrazek did s*** the bed (Howard has been plenty good at s***ting the bed for extended periods too lest we forget and again, has done jack s*** in the playoffs) for awhile and ultimately he takes the brunt of the grief because he got the big deal and fans love to turn on young players that aren’t perfect/Lindstrom, but our ******* vet goalie cried to the media and bemoaned that he was clearly and consistently outplayed instead of accepting his fate as a backup and being a good example. Two guys being selfish.
 

Both pulled out of their funks at different times, so good on that, but Howard’s not a gamer and is old. Mrazek returned to form before we traded him, and then we let him go for basically nothing. When we’ve got nothing to lose and we can likely keep him cheap, we should’ve kept him as opposed to trading him. Let Howard finally move on; he has no place in our future at this point whereas Mrazek had potential to be our next-gen goalie and a good if not great one at that. It was a dumb hockey move for the team. Even if he hadn’t returned to form like he has, it’s still worth the gamble given where the whole team is at and his potential upside.

And we have Howard and Bernier and are generally terrible on any given night while Hurricanes made a deep run and are off to a great start; not sure how that played out as better for us.

90% unsubstantiated rambling

[gcom007 1,465]

18 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I bet you definitely have something to back this claim up too...

Ok post one of these interviews

Regardless, I expect Howard to be butt hurt. Man lost his job. That's not an excuse for Mrazek completely dropping the ball and losing the job. You're doubling-down on the logic I just criticized you for.

90% unsubstantiated rambling

post-game interviews aren’t easy to come by from years back. And 90% of this forum is unsubstantiated rambling.
 

Ultimately, we traded Mrazek at the age Howard broke into the NHL. That’s enough for me. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

post-game interviews aren’t easy to come by from years back. And 90% of this forum is unsubstantiated rambling.
 

Ultimately, we traded Mrazek at the age Howard broke into the NHL. That’s enough for me. 

You're retroactively claiming Mrazek sucked because of Howard. Come at me with some sort of evidence, or I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

The mental gymnastics that have gone on with this fanbase and Mrazek is crazy. I'm convinced goalies in general just make people crazy.

What is substantiated is: Mrazek sucked for us. No scapegoats. That's all that really needs to be said.

[gcom007 1,465]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You're retroactively claiming Mrazek sucked because of Howard. Come at me with some sort of evidence, or I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

The mental gymnastics that have gone on with this fanbase and Mrazek is crazy. I'm convinced goalies in general just make people crazy.

What is substantiated is: Mrazek sucked for us. No scapegoats. That's all that really needs to be said.

I certainly don’t think it was completely because of Howard but I don’t think it helped, that’s all. Mrazek absolutely sucked for awhile. He was also great at times too, and stepped up in the playoffs.

And he did all this at an age when Howard was still blowing every chance he had to make the team even as a backup. Jimmy has had plenty of stretches where he sucked too. That’s a huge reason Mrazek was able to break in and even get a real look at the starting job so early. Plenty of s*** is conjecture, but game logs don’t lie and Howard has had more than a few terrible stretches, but for some reason they’re more accepted than those of a 23 year old goalie still learning the pro-game in the pros at an age when Howard was still a fat AHL goalie.

The way he hung in and turned it around towards the end along with his age make it pretty simple to me. Should’ve hung onto him for cheap and skipped Bernier or shipped out Howard. Carolina has made that point more clear.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

I certainly don’t think it was completely because of Howard but I don’t think it helped, that’s all. Mrazek absolutely sucked for awhile. He was also great at times too, and stepped up in the playoffs.

And he did all this at an age when Howard was still blowing every chance he had to make the team even as a backup. Jimmy has had plenty of stretches where he sucked too. That’s a huge reason Mrazek was able to break in and even get a real look at the starting job so early. Plenty of s*** is conjecture, but game logs don’t lie and Howard has had more than a few terrible stretches, but for some reason they’re more accepted than those of a 23 year old goalie still learning the pro-game in the pros at an age when Howard was still a fat AHL goalie.

The way he hung in and turned it around towards the end along with his age make it pretty simple to me. Should’ve hung onto him for cheap and skipped Bernier or shipped out Howard. Carolina has made that point more clear.

God I've had this argument so many times from 2016-2018. I should have known the hindsight revisionists would come rearing back.

11 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

I certainly don’t think it was completely because of Howard but I don’t think it helped, that’s all. Mrazek absolutely sucked for awhile. He was also great at times too, and stepped up in the playoffs.

Those times Mrazek was great? Guess what... those were cause of Jimmy too. Why only cast the negative aspects of Mrazeks career on Jim? We should give credit where credit is due.

15 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

And he did all this at an age when Howard was still blowing every chance he had to make the team even as a backup.

You play the cards your dealt. I won't disagree Jimmy was a late bloomer, I'll just point out that that fact has absolutely nothing to do with Mrazek.

17 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

Jimmy has had plenty of stretches where he sucked too.

Whataboutism isn't a sound argument, but I'll humor you.

I agree Jimmy has had bad stretches and good stretches, but his stretches are much more even keel than Mrazek's ever were. Mrazeks were giant peaks and valleys. One moment he looks like Hasek, then he seemingly can't stop a puck at all for 30 games. Every goalie and every player has stretches, but Mrazeks were incredibly pronounced.

21 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

but game logs don’t lie and Howard has had more than a few terrible stretches, but for some reason they’re more accepted than those of a 23 year old goalie still learning the pro-game in the pros at an age when Howard was still a fat AHL goalie.

Again, not Howards fault. Mrazek took the team to arbitration and forced the team to pay him $4 mill a year and essentially treat him like a starting goalie.

He didn't live up to that contract even a little.

Howard playing the long game and persevering should be a testament to him as a player, not a detriment. It's not his fault Mrazek never learned to be humble.

26 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

The way he hung in and turned it around towards the end along with his age make it pretty simple to me. Should’ve hung onto him for cheap and skipped Bernier or shipped out Howard. Carolina has made that point more clear.

Good for you, I'm glad you've gained the confidence to retroactively argue for keeping Mrazek now that he's long gone and performing well in Carolina. Unfortunately history is history my friend. Personally I'm happier to have Larsson learn from a player like Jimmy, than Petr, but to each their own.

[gcom007 1,465]

On 10/18/2019 at 2:26 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

God I've had this argument so many times from 2016-2018. I should have known the hindsight revisionists would come rearing back.

Those times Mrazek was great? Guess what... those were cause of Jimmy too. Why only cast the negative aspects of Mrazeks career on Jim? We should give credit where credit is due.

You play the cards your dealt. I won't disagree Jimmy was a late bloomer, I'll just point out that that fact has absolutely nothing to do with Mrazek.

Whataboutism isn't a sound argument, but I'll humor you.

I agree Jimmy has had bad stretches and good stretches, but his stretches are much more even keel than Mrazek's ever were. Mrazeks were giant peaks and valleys. One moment he looks like Hasek, then he seemingly can't stop a puck at all for 30 games. Every goalie and every player has stretches, but Mrazeks were incredibly pronounced.

Again, not Howards fault. Mrazek took the team to arbitration and forced the team to pay him $4 mill a year and essentially treat him like a starting goalie.

He didn't live up to that contract even a little.

Howard playing the long game and persevering should be a testament to him as a player, not a detriment. It's not his fault Mrazek never learned to be humble.

Good for you, I'm glad you've gained the confidence to retroactively argue for keeping Mrazek now that he's long gone and performing well in Carolina. Unfortunately history is history my friend. Personally I'm happier to have Larsson learn from a player like Jimmy, than Petr, but to each their own.

Not worth going round and round, we have different thoughts, but I will say my Tune has been very consistent on Mrazek and I didn’t like the trade when it happened. I suspected he’d continue to improve and play well and that’s what’s happened. Carolina merely validated what I said all along.

[kipwinger 8,520]

5 hours ago, gcom007 said:

Not worth going round and round, we have different thoughts, but I will say my Tune has been very consistent on Mrazek and I didn’t like the trade when it happened. I suspected he’d continue to improve and play well and that’s what’s happened. Carolina merely validated what I said all along.

That's pretty revisionist.  He was traded to Philly from Detroit, and he totally sucked there.  THEN he was picked up by Carolina, had a decent run though nothing spectacular, and now he's back to being pretty pedestrian again.  So I'm not sure how Carolina "validated" him "continuing to improve". 

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

19 hours ago, gcom007 said:

Not worth going round and round, we have different thoughts, but I will say my Tune has been very consistent on Mrazek and I didn’t like the trade when it happened. I suspected he’d continue to improve and play well and that’s what’s happened. Carolina merely validated what I said all along.

Detroit actually did him a favor.  Good for him.

13 hours ago, kipwinger said:

That's pretty revisionist.  He was traded to Philly from Detroit, and he totally sucked there.  THEN he was picked up by Carolina, had a decent run though nothing spectacular, and now he's back to being pretty pedestrian again.  So I'm not sure how Carolina "validated" him "continuing to improve". 

Yet where are we and our goalies?  Yeah I thought so...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

Detroit actually did him a favor.  Good for him.

Yet where are we and our goalies?  Yeah I thought so...

Not any worse than we'd be with Mrazek in net.

On 10/19/2019 at 4:45 PM, gcom007 said:

Carolina merely validated what I said all along.

That he's not a starting goaltender at the NHL level?

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not any worse than we'd be with Mrazek in net.

That he's not a starting goaltender at the NHL level?

While with the Canes - Mrazek benefitted from having a much better team in front of him whenever he played.

Edited October 21, 2019 by F.Michael

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, F.Michael said:

While with the Canes - Mrazek benefitted from having a much better team in front of him whenever he played.

Every goalie does tho.

Mrazek is never going to be a bona fide starter in the NHL. He's going to have great games, and really bad ones. He'll look good for stretches, and then fall apart. He may even be able to put together a few decent seasons in the NHL. But he's never going to be able to put it all together enough to be the goaltender we all saw glimpses of, or the one that some still believe is there and STILL hasnt developed yet.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Super spicy take from Craig Button here.  Love it. 

 

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Super spicy take from Craig Button here.  Love it. 

I love it for the anti-Leaf spice factor. But I'd like to see what Matthews could do playing on McDavid's wing.

[kipwinger 8,520]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I love it for the anti-Leaf spice factor. But I'd like to see what Matthews could do playing on McDavid's wing.

Score more?  I think Craig's whole point is that Draisaitl scores a bunch anyway and is a Selke caliber two-way forward.  And he's genuinely got a point.  Matthews doesn't really play defense.  Draisaitl is like 2008 Henrik Zetterberg, but in Peter Forsberg's body.

[Dabura 12,207]

Just now, kipwinger said:

Score more?  I think Craig's whole point is that Draisaitl scores a bunch anyway and is a Selke caliber two-way forward.  And he's genuinely got a point.  Matthews doesn't really play defense.  Draisaitl is like 2008 Henrik Zetterberg, but in Peter Forsberg's body.

Yeah, not really disagreeing with him. I think Draisaitl is the better player now and there's a good chance he's going to end up being the better player, period. Still, I'd like to see what Matthews could do on McDavid's wing. Draisaitl's spent some quality time in that pocket and that's certainly helped his cause.

I have zero love for Matthews. Just sayin'.

[kipwinger 8,520]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, not really disagreeing with him. I think Draisaitl is the better player now and there's a good chance he's going to end up being the better player, period. Still, I'd like to see what Matthews could do on McDavid's wing. Draisaitl's spent some quality time in that pocket and that's certainly helped his cause.

I have zero love for Matthews. Just sayin'.

I don't really have a horse in the race to be honest.  I just love how indignant Button got about it.  He acted like the mere thought that Matthews was a top player was completely absurd, but he's the only one who mentioned Matthews in the first place. 

Plus I can't wait to see how Maple Leafs' fans react to this perceived slight. 

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't really have a horse in the race to be honest.  I just love how indignant Button got about it.  He acted like the mere thought that Matthews was a top player was completely absurd, but he's the only one who mentioned Matthews in the first place. 

Plus I can't wait to see how Maple Leafs' fans react to this perceived slight. 

I have to say, I've really warmed to Button over the years.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Super spicy take from Craig Button here.  Love it. 

 

1.Hate the Leafs

2. Hate Mathews

3. What does Mathews "being one of the best" have to do with Leon? "One of" means one of several right. As in more than one? So even if it went McD>Mackinnon>Draisaitl>whoever>who the *** ever>some other peeps>Mathews, would he not still be one of the best?

Love the Button trolling though. He also said earlier today that the Leafs aren't cup contenders. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

1.Hate the Leafs

2. Hate Mathews

3. What does Mathews "being one of the best" have to do with Leon? "One of" means one of several right. As in more than one? So even if it went McD>Mackinnon>Draisaitl>whoever.who the *** ever>some other peep>Mathews, would he not still be one of the best. 

Button is saying Draisaitl is fat and therefore he counts as several players.

[Dabura 12,207]

Fellas, I think I've found our next head coach:

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Super spicy take from Craig Button here.  Love it. 

 

Let me start by saying that I have a lot of respect for Button, and I’ve never heard any ‘anti-American’ coming from him in the past, but would he still have this opinion on Matthews if he was from Thunder Bay, Ontario ?

[kipwinger 8,520]

47 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Let me start by saying that I have a lot of respect for Button, and I’ve never heard any ‘anti-American’ coming from him in the past, but would he still have this opinion on Matthews if he was from Thunder Bay, Ontario ?

Draisaitl is from Germany, so I don't see why it would make a difference?

[marcaractac 3,962]

13 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Let me start by saying that I have a lot of respect for Button, and I’ve never heard any ‘anti-American’ coming from him in the past, but would he still have this opinion on Matthews if he was from Thunder Bay, Ontario ?

He isn't Grapes

[kipwinger 8,520]

To be fair to Matthews though, nobody tries as hard to A) look idiotic, and B) come up with pedestrian excuses as he does. 

[toby91_ca 620]

21 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Score more?  I think Craig's whole point is that Draisaitl scores a bunch anyway and is a Selke caliber two-way forward.  And he's genuinely got a point.  Matthews doesn't really play defense.  Draisaitl is like 2008 Henrik Zetterberg, but in Peter Forsberg's body.

Don't Zetterberg and Forsberg pretty much have the same body (size)?  Draisaitl is quite a bit bigger than both.