The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Wasting a top 10 pick on a 3rd liner’s a fail That's his floor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Wasting a top 10 pick on a 3rd liner’s a fail Depends. Generally I'd agree with you. But if Ras turns into a shutdown 3rd line center who scores 20 goals a season because he's awesome on the powerplay then I'll be thrilled. 1 ely s reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 Oiler's fans about to learn what it means when Holland says X player out for Y amount of games. https://www.tsn.ca/edmonton-oilers-f-connor-mcdavid-quad-out-2-3-weeks-1.1441106 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: If the argument is as dumb as you claim it should be easily refutable. And yet, we do go back and forth for pages on these "dumb" arguments with many legitimate points. Suggesting that the argument is not as "dumb" as you might have folks believe, you just disagree. It doesn't go back and forth though. It goes around in circles. Both of us repeating the same bulls***... 10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: See here's prime example. Is it really that dumb or are you just insulting the argument? BAD ARGUMENT NO You've cherry picked a very late first rounder who's VERY GOOD, and a higher first rounder who's meh. And that's fine. I'm not denying this happens. Draft pedigree isn't everything. But you're citing the exception, not the norm. Generally speaking one should expect a 9th overall is better than a 30th overall. That should need no explanation. And Rasmussen and Veleno aren't Nichuskin and Pastaman. They're both 20 year old prospects still (separated by 9 months, I know). And one is playing much better than the other on the same team in same league. That happens to be the higher drafted player who one would expect to be better than his 30th overall counterpart. Okay, how about this then... If given the choice, who would you take, the 20th overall player, or the 53rd overall player? Hint: I'm talking about Cholowski or Hronek. What about the 6th overall player, or the 9th overall player? Zadina or Rasmussen... It doesn't need any explanation... Like I've said several times, and I knew I'd have to repeat myself... In general, yes, you'd take the higher draft pick, but that isn't always the case. In fact, there's almost always a pick in the 20's-40's that would end up a top 10 pick in a re-draft. 19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: It's a shame Rasmussen didn't play in the AHL his first season so we had more concrete comparables, but I will attempt it anyway. First pro season: Ras: 62 GP, 18 PTS, -1 (NHL) 12:05 TOI/GP Veleno: 41 GP, 17 PTS, -21 (AHL) Icetime not available Already I much prefer Rasmussen's numbers personally considering the different leagues and icetime afforded. I think it's reasonable to assume Veleno is probably being afforded somewhere in the range of 14 to 20 minutes a night with the Griffs (top 3 lines). Even if Rasmussen has produced better (taking age and experience into account), I don't think that necessarily means that Ras will be the better player long-term. And no, I'm not backing off my Veleno > Rasmussen argument, but it's no secret that all players develop at different rates. The thing is, I think it's possible that Ras could end up being the better player, whereas you think it's impossible for Veleno to become the better player. You keep talking about the numbers. We're all well aware of the numbers. Have you watched them play? Serious question. I have a LOT this season, and both are being highly utilized. Veleno is always out there to take key draws. He's on the power-play (left wall) and penalty kill. Rasmussen is only on the power-play (net-front). I also wish TOI was tracked in the AHL, because I would think their average TOI is very close, maybe even slightly in Veleno's favor, due to being on both special teams. I think they're more of a 1A / 1B, than a 1 / 2 right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: That's his floor We’ll see what happens 11 minutes ago, kipwinger said: Depends. Generally I'd agree with you. But if Ras turns into a shutdown 3rd line center who scores 20 goals a season because he's awesome on the powerplay then I'll be thrilled. I dont know if he’ll be a shutdown guy or what but i see him as a 3c and being used in front of the net for the ppl due to his size ... if he ends up being a 3rd liner wasting a top 10 pick for a player of that position will end up being a fail imo ... time will tell 9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Oiler's fans about to learn what it means when Holland says X player out for Y amount of games. https://www.tsn.ca/edmonton-oilers-f-connor-mcdavid-quad-out-2-3-weeks-1.1441106 Oilers are gonna get #1 pick now and Every fanbase around the league are gonna have a meltdown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: We’ll see what happens I dont know if he’ll be a shutdown guy or what but i see him as a 3c and being used in front of the net for the ppl due to his size ... if he ends up being a 3rd liner wasting a top 10 pick for a player of that position will end up being a fail imo ... time will tell Again, his production will determine his value. A couple of years ago Phil Kessel won a Cup as a 3rd line winger. Who cares what line he's on so long as he's providing value? And having a lethal powerplay because you've got a top flight net front guy is pretty valuable to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, kipwinger said: Again, his production will determine his value. A couple of years ago Phil Kessel won a Cup as a 3rd line winger. Who cares what line he's on so long as he's providing value? And having a lethal powerplay because you've got a top flight net front guy is pretty valuable to me. Just saying man if we wasted a top 10 pick on a guy whos a 3rd liner its a fail , cant f*** up those picks ... holmstrom was the best net front guy and he wasnt top 10 pick worthy , hoping rasmussen proves me wrong and ends up being 30+ and a top 6 beast but ill believe it when i see it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,014 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) nm bad stats Edited February 11, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 53 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: It doesn't go back and forth though. It goes around in circles. Both of us repeating the same bulls***... Oh I'll spin ya in circles and flip ya every which direction, you followin' me partner? 57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Okay, how about this then... If given the choice, who would you take, the 20th overall player, or the 53rd overall player? Hint: I'm talking about Cholowski or Hronek. What about the 6th overall player, or the 9th overall player? Zadina or Rasmussen... It doesn't need any explanation... Like I've said several times, and I knew I'd have to repeat myself... In general, yes, you'd take the higher draft pick, but that isn't always the case. In fact, there's almost always a pick in the 20's-40's that would end up a top 10 pick in a re-draft. So why don't we just trade down then? Clearly there's better players in the 20-40s like Veleno like u say. Hell trade down all our picks. Position doesn't even matter. 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: Even if Rasmussen has produced better (taking age and experience into account), I don't think that necessarily means that Ras will be the better player long-term. And no, I'm not backing off my Veleno > Rasmussen argument, but it's no secret that all players develop at different rates. The thing is, I think it's possible that Ras could end up being the better player, whereas you think it's impossible for Veleno to become the better player. You keep talking about the numbers. We're all well aware of the numbers. Have you watched them play? Serious question. I have a LOT this season, and both are being highly utilized. Veleno is always out there to take key draws. He's on the power-play (left wall) and penalty kill. Rasmussen is only on the power-play (net-front). I also wish TOI was tracked in the AHL, because I would think their average TOI is very close, maybe even slightly in Veleno's favor, due to being on both special teams. I think they're more of a 1A / 1B, than a 1 / 2 right now. Oh no, that totally invalidates my argument. I didn't know you watch them play A LOT. Perhaps you've noticed that Ras scores a lot more and gets scored on a lot less? Perhaps you've noticed his albatross wingspan that allows him to basically touch both half walls at once. Or that his one stride is equivalent to 2 Veleno strides. Goalies have noticed that his giant bulbous hockey ass sits directly in their face while his silky soft shea butter mitts funnel pucks into their nets. The kid can't even be knocked down. He breaks checks like Gronkowski dancing into an endzone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: So why don't we just trade down then? Clearly there's better players in the 20-40s like Veleno like u say. Hell trade down all our picks. Position doesn't even matter. Wow... You've really lost it, haven't you? You used to be good at this... 6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Oh no, that totally invalidates my argument. I didn't know you watch them play A LOT. Perhaps you've noticed that Ras scores a lot more and gets scored on a lot less? Perhaps you've noticed his albatross wingspan that allows him to basically touch both half walls at once. Or that his one stride is equivalent to 2 Veleno strides. Goalies have noticed that his giant bulbous hockey ass sits directly in their face while his silky soft shea butter mitts funnel pucks into their nets. The kid can't even be knocked down. He breaks checks like Gronkowski dancing into an endzone. Ok, so you don't watch the Griffins... No big deal. But it makes perfect sense why you think Rasmussen is the far superior player... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, LeftWinger said: I think Minnesota won that trade for sure! Not so fast. It will most likely be a pick in the late 20's of the 1st round. Minny also got a 4th line shell of Chucky and a prospect that could easily be a bust. Apparently Pitt has been coveting Zucker for awhile and offered up Kessel for him this summer, but Kessel blocked it. Pitt seems to think Zucker is the top 6 F they've been looking for to replace Kessel, but his points history says he more of a middle 6 winger (he's only cracked 50 points once). It's too early to tell who "won" this trade. If neither of Calen Addison or their 1st rounder become impact players for the Wild, Pitt actually wins this trade. Edited February 11, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Wow... You've really lost it, haven't you? You used to be good at this... There ya go, attacking the messenger instead of the message AGAIN. If you need time to put together a coherent argument just do it and take a break. Maybe Veleno will be half as good as Rasmussen when you get back? Allow me to pile on though. If Veleno is so mis-drafted according to you that he should be a Top10 pick Well. Ras. Is. Already. A. Top. 10. Pick. 5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Ok, so you don't watch the Griffins... No big deal. But it makes perfect sense why you think Rasmussen is the far superior player... Oh no sir, I watch the Griffins A LOT and it is you who I suspect do not watch them since your opinions are so wildly wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: There ya go, attacking the messenger instead of the message AGAIN. If you need time to put together a coherent argument just do it and take a break. Maybe Veleno will be half as good as Rasmussen when you get back? Allow me to pile on though. If Veleno is so mis-drafted according to you that he should be a Top10 pick Well. Ras. Is. Already. A. Top. 10. Pick. Oh no sir, I watch the Griffins A LOT and it is you who I suspect do not watch them since your opinions are so wildly wrong My crystal ball says you have a "it's MY opinion" followed by a "I'm done with this" in your future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 f*** didnt know top 10 picks were guaranteed to be better than player picks later on in the draft , learn something new everyday here 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: f*** didnt know top 10 picks were guaranteed to be better than player picks later on in the draft , learn something new everyday here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 Go find a bridge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said: Go find a bridge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: There ya go, attacking the messenger instead of the message AGAIN. If you need time to put together a coherent argument just do it and take a break. Maybe Veleno will be half as good as Rasmussen when you get back? I've made plenty of coherent arguments. You're clearly just not paying attention. 1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Oh no sir, I watch the Griffins A LOT and it is you who I suspect do not watch them since your opinions are so wildly wrong I call bulls*** on that one. 1 hour ago, kipwinger said: My crystal ball says you have a "it's MY opinion" followed by a "I'm done with this" in your future. It is an opinion, you f***ing knob. What else would a future projection be? Unlike you, I don't have a crystal ball. 1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said: f*** didnt know top 10 picks were guaranteed to be better than player picks later on in the draft , learn something new everyday here Bigger players are also always better. Edited February 11, 2020 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: I've made plenty of coherent arguments. You're clearly just not paying attention. Yeah. Lower drafted players have more potential than higher drafted players. Very coherent. 3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: I call bulls*** on that one. I'm starting to think you don't even watch the Red Wings 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: It is an opinion, you f***ing knob. What else would a future projection be? Unlike you, I don't have a crystal ball. My crystal ball shows Veleno doesn't have the dexterity to make it in this league, especially after he gets dropped by a fricken elbow to the ribcage 11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Bigger players are also always better. It's better to be bigger It's better to be drafted higher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Yeah. Lower drafted players have more potential than higher drafted players. Very coherent. Yeah, that's exactly what I said... 3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: I'm starting to think you don't even watch the Red Wings I can count on one hand the number of games I've missed in the past 10 years... What do ya know, kip was right for once... "I'm done with this"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Yeah, that's exactly what I said... Ras: 9th overall Veleno: 30th overall You: 3 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Even if Rasmussen has produced better (taking age and experience into account), I don't think that necessarily means that Ras will be the better player long-term. And no, I'm not backing off my Veleno > Rasmussen argument Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Ras: 9th overall Veleno: 30th overall You: Even if Rasmussen has produced better (taking age and experience into account), I don't think that necessarily means that Ras will be the better player long-term. And no, I'm not backing off my Veleno > Rasmussen argument You: 28 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Yeah. Lower drafted players have more potential than higher drafted players. Very coherent. Not even the close to being the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: You: Not even the close to being the same. Sorry I forgot. Despite Ras being drafted MUCH higher, and playing MUCH better in his first pro season, and Playing MUCH better this season, he has lower potential than Veleno cause you watched the games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Sorry I forgot. Despite Ras being drafted MUCH higher, and playing MUCH better in his first pro season, and Playing MUCH better this season, he has lower potential than Veleno cause you watched the games You got it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Wheeler from the athletic has veleno #2 redwing prospect and rasmussen #3 someone should msg him and let him know rasmussen is bigger and a top 10 pick Edited February 11, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture 1 1 krsmith17 and ely s reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
