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Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin and Lafreniere wouldnt be too bad.

 

https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/alexis-lafrenière/29976/

 

Lafreniere could play center according to his secondary position in this link.

 

You gotta have all the ingredients to make a cake, kip.  Not just a bunch of flour.

 

Wait, so you want to trade for Puljujarvi with the expectation that it will pay off if we somehow manage to draft Lafreniere?  Ok man.

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47 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin and Lafreniere wouldnt be too bad.

 

https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/alexis-lafrenière/29976/

 

Lafreniere could play center according to his secondary position in this link.

 

You gotta have all the ingredients to make a cake, kip.  Not just a bunch of flour.

 

Are we sure we've even figured out how to preheat the oven?? 

 

:P 

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If we get Lafrieniere, we won't need JP.  We won't need BOTH AA and Mantha either.  If we are blessed enough to get that #1, I start looking for a trade for a legit #1 D.  I still would like to see if Werenski is indeed available now, I doubt it, but nobody is untouchable really.

Our (soon to be) D then:

Werenski - Seider

Cholowski - Hronek

MacIsaac - Kaski

 

Sorry DD....plus I'd deal away Lindstrom in the Werenski deal maybe!

I know, it's all just talk here, not saying any of it is remotely about to happen, but would you?

to CBJ : AA(Mantha,) Svechnikov, Lindstrom, 2020 (lottery protected) 1st Round

to DET : Werenski

Like I said, I figure he is not available, and I know I am on a "trade for Werenski" kick, but I am just making convo in this long off season...

Edited by LeftWinger

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1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

If we get Lafrieniere, we won't need JP.  We won't need BOTH AA and Mantha either.  If we are blessed enough to get that #1, I start looking for a trade for a legit #1 D.  I still would like to see if Werenski is indeed available now, I doubt it, but nobody is untouchable really.

Our (soon to be) D then:

Werenski - Seider

Cholowski - Hronek

MacIsaac - Kaski

 

Sorry DD....plus I'd deal away Lindstrom in the Werenski deal maybe!

I know, it's all just talk here, not saying any of it is remotely about to happen, but would you?

to CBJ : AA, Svechnikov, Lindstrom, 2020 (lottery protected) 1st Round

to DET : Werenski

Like I said, I figure he is not available, and I know I am on a "trade for Werenski" kick, but I am just making convo in this long off season...

You're also MASSIVELY overpaying for the guy.  He's a good player, but he's not that good.  Reminds me a lot of young Keith Yandle.  He's very good offensively, and feisty, but he's cheats for offense a lot and is a bit of an adventure in the d-zone.  There's a reason Seth Jones is the workhorse for the BJs.  In the very near future I think Hronek will be providing all of the same qualities as Werenski does without needing to give up half our team to get him. 

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

 

Wait, so you want to trade for Puljujarvi with the expectation that it will pay off if we somehow manage to draft Lafreniere?  Ok man.

Expecting Puljujarvi and our team to get better after drafting in the top 4 is unreasonable?  And if Puljujarvi stinks so bad, how are we NOT going to get a top 4 pick if we play him?  Game, set, match.  

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36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You're also MASSIVELY overpaying for the guy.  He's a good player, but he's not that good.  Reminds me a lot of young Keith Yandle.  He's very good offensively, and feisty, but he's cheats for offense a lot and is a bit of an adventure in the d-zone.  There's a reason Seth Jones is the workhorse for the BJs.  In the very near future I think Hronek will be providing all of the same qualities as Werenski does without needing to give up half our team to get him. 

Very happy with Seider and Hronek pushing forward

Hopeful about Cholowski and McIsaac

Meh about everyone else

Yzerman did a a real good job stacking Tampa's D for Brisebois. All Brisebois has had to add is a bought-out Shattenkirk and depth plugs Witkowski and Schenn.

Tampa has a one two punch in Hedman and McDonagh, with Sergachev, Cernak, and Foote coming up already or on the way. Really not fair.

If Yzerman can replicate that in anyway ooo boy
 

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15 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Expecting Puljujarvi and our team to get better after drafting in the top 4 is unreasonable?  And if Puljujarvi stinks so bad, how are we NOT going to get a top 4 pick if we play him?  Game, set, match.  

You're chasing your tail a bit here.  The guy is demonstrably only sorta effective when he's playing with the best center on earth.  And even then he only scored 14 points in like 400 minutes with McDavid.  So for him to be better than that on our team we'd have to A) win the draft lottery (which is hard even if you're the worst team in the league), and B) draft a center as good/better than McDavid (there are none). 

Trading for the guy just doesn't make sense.  Sorry man.  You can try to rationalize your preference all you want. Svech scores at basically the same rate, from our 4th line, without needed McDavid to drag him up and down the ice. 

Edited by kipwinger

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1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Very happy with Seider and Hronek pushing forward

Hopeful about Cholowski and McIsaac

Meh about everyone else

Yzerman did a a real good job stacking Tampa's D for Brisebois. All Brisebois has had to add is a bought-out Shattenkirk and depth plugs Witkowski and Schenn.

Tampa has a one two punch in Hedman and McDonagh, with Sergachev, Cernak, and Foote coming up already or on the way. Really not fair.

If Yzerman can replicate that in anyway ooo boy
 

Yeah, I'm happy with our defense.  I was before this year's draft and I obviously still am.  Forking out a bunch of assets for a defenseman at this point seems silly.  It's no longer an organizational weakness going forward.   I think everybody is just used to the old "our defense sucks" refrain so they keep thinking we need to address it.  We already have.  We just need centers in next year's draft.  Preferably ones that have high offensive upsides. We've got two workhorse guys (Larkin, Veleno).  Would be nice to have a guy that could kill teams offensively a la Backstrom, Giroux, Aho. 

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5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, I'm happy with our defense.  I was before this year's draft and I obviously still am.  Forking out a bunch of assets for a defenseman at this point seems silly.  It's no longer an organizational weakness going forward.   I think everybody is just used to the old "our defense sucks" refrain so they keep thinking we need to address it.  We already have.  We just need centers in next year's draft.  Preferably ones that have high offensive upsides. We've got two workhorse guys (Larkin, Veleno).  Would be nice to have a guy that could kill teams offensively a la Backstrom, Giroux, Aho. 

If I have to asses the teams strengths/weaknesses I think we're strongest at forward and weakest in goal.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Athanasiou
In the pipe: Zadina, Veleno

Hronek
In the pipe: McIsaac, Cholowski, Seider

Nothing
In the pipe: Larsson

But really I'm not overly concerned about differences in position strength. At this point I think we need another Larkin at literally any position. Lafreniere winger? Plz gibs. Jack Hughes center? Plz gibs. Elite goalie or D? Gibs gibs gibs.

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2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If I have to asses the teams strengths/weaknesses I think we're strongest at forward and weakest in goal.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Athanasiou
In the pipe: Zadina, Veleno

Hronek
In the pipe: McIsaac, Cholowski, Seider

Nothing
In the pipe: Larsson

But really I'm not overly concerned about differences in position strength. At this point I think we need another Larkin at literally any position. Lafreniere winger? Plz gibs. Jack Hughes center? Plz gibs. Elite goalie or D? Gibs gibs gibs.

I don't disagree in theory, I just think "elite" comes in a lot of different formats these days. Probably not a single St. Louis Blues player would be considered top 5 at their position prior to their win. Maybe Tarasenko. In contrast I think Tampa had elite players at every position and they got crushed.  I realize that recency bias but nevetheless the point is interesting. Anymore I think you need good players, obviously, but you need depth and a good match between the players and the coaching systems.  By which I mean that you need 4 lines and 3 pairs that won't get absolutely torched if they get caught out against an opponent's top line for half a shift, and you need those players to be able to execute a coach's system (and especially special teams systems) to a high degree. 

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I don't disagree in theory, I just think "elite" comes in a lot of different formats these days. Probably not a single St. Louis Blues player would be considered top 5 at their position prior to their win. Maybe Tarasenko. In contrast I think Tampa had elite players at every position and they got crushed.  I realize that recency bias but nevetheless the point is interesting. Anymore I think you need good players, obviously, but you need depth and a good match between the players and the coaching systems.  By which I mean that you need 4 lines and 3 pairs that won't get absolutely torched if they get caught out against an opponent's top line for half a shift, and you need those players to be able to execute a coach's system (and especially special teams systems) to a high degree. 

Lets change the phrasing to "players you can build a team around" instead of elite. I think you can build a team around Larkin... I don't think you can build a team around Mantha or Bertuzzi.

Likewise I think you can build a team Tarasenko, ROR, and Pietrangelo. That's what I think we need. 2 more solid building blocks that can help the D-Boss. I don't really care too much exactly where they slot in, but I'd like at least one to be a Dman. Hopefully that's Seider or Hronek.

St. Louis really lucked into a HOT rookie goalie this year. I'm far from convinced Binnington is the real deal yet, but we'll see.

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Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Lets change the phrasing to "players you can build a team around" instead of elite. I think you can build a team around Larkin... I don't think you can build a team around Mantha or Bertuzzi.

Likewise I think you can build a team Tarasenko, ROR, and Pietrangelo. That's what I think we need. 2 more solid building blocks that can help the D-Boss. I don't really care too much exactly where they slot in, but I'd like at least one to be a Dman. Hopefully that's Seider or Hronek.

St. Louis really lucked into a HOT rookie goalie this year. I'm far from convinced Binnington is the real deal yet, but we'll see.

Totally agree about the goaltending.  It's a bit of a truism to say that you need a hot goaltender to win the Cup, but it's hard to build around that. In fact, it's one of those rare situations where having the "best" goaltender hardly ensures you'll have "good" playoff goaltending.  Consider that NONE of Luongo, Lundqvist, or Price have a Cup.

Also totally agree that a group you can "build around" is a better situation than a few "elite" guys.  But that's where I think positional strength matters.  For instance, say you've got a couple workhorse centers but they're guys who don't score a ton relative to their peers. No problem if you collective group of wingers do score more than their peers.  I don't think we need Super high scoring (80-100 point centers). Another 70 pts. guy will do as long as he's an assist machine.  Because I think ALL of our top 6 wingers (and maybe one of our 3rd liners too) are going to score 20-30 goals.  In this thought experiment lets use a Claude Giroux type.  A top 9 of Larkin, Giroux, Veleno, Mantha, Bert, AA, Zadina, Ras/Berggren/Mastrosime/Svech, probably brutalizes opposition defenses without a single "elite" talent. 

Same with the defense.  I think they need to collectively be able to put up points, without the need for any one player to be an offensive stud.  A couple 30 point guys paired with a couple 40 point guys are a really good top four as long as they can defend competently. 

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https://www.nhl.com/news/coyotes-forward-clayton-keller-signs-eight-year-extension/c-308877352

Will that set a price for players like Tkachuk,Boeser,etc? Vancouver roughly $6M in cap space, Calgary $7.7M with three players to sign, Jets have to sign 4 players including Connor and Laine with $16M. They all look like teams in cap trouble.

Will be interesting to see what is going to happen on the trade market once the contracts are signed...

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Holland missed out on Brassard and Filppula. Should've predicted he'd chase Sheahan next.

Steviey to Kenny ...Hey boss if you REALLY want to put that 4th line band together I can spare sending you Helm, Abby, Glendog and Big E.....LOL

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20 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I just want to reiterate that I think Svech is still an unknown, not that he's somehow definitely better than Puljujarvi.  As such, I'd rather see what we have in him before we trade him.  Why do I think he's an unknown?

Three years ago he played two games in the NHL and looked lost, but he tore up the AHL.  Then two years ago he had a down year for most of the season in the AHL, but got called up at the end of the season for 14 games.  The first 6 of those games he was a non-factor.  Then he scored 4 points in his last 8 games and earned a little more ice time each game.  Then finally, going into last year he started out the pre-season looking pretty good, scoring 2g and 1a in 5 games, and looked very much like he'd make the team.  Then he blew out his knee and the rest is history.

Again, I realize it's a small sample size including a pre-season.  But there's enough there for me to want to see if what else he's got. Whereas with Puljujarvi I see a guy who's been given ample opportunity and squandered it, with Svech I see a guy who may be a productive player with that same opportunity. 

I could be wrong, but that's my rationale.

You've made your point man.  We all get that you don't think Zadina is going to be all that good.  Maybe not.  But bringing it up at every opportunity isn't contributing in any way to the discussion.

Yea but it's kinda fun lol

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2 hours ago, ely s said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/coyotes-forward-clayton-keller-signs-eight-year-extension/c-308877352

Will that set a price for players like Tkachuk,Boeser,etc? Vancouver roughly $6M in cap space, Calgary $7.7M with three players to sign, Jets have to sign 4 players including Connor and Laine with $16M. They all look like teams in cap trouble.

Will be interesting to see what is going to happen on the trade market once the contracts are signed...

At this point it looks like Chyka overpaid by a considerable margin...I hope for Keller’s sake he puts up 65 plus pts.

Many antacids will be consumed by GMs with these RFAs.

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5 minutes ago, Wings3:16 said:

$7.15M cap hit for Keller...holy balls

Indeed.

Used to be guys had to play 4, or 5 seasons at the NHL level before they got their big $$$ contract (and in most cases the contract length was 3, or 4 seasons).

Some of these GMs need to be saved from themselves.

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7 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Indeed.

Used to be guys had to play 4, or 5 seasons at the NHL level before they got their big $$$ contract (and in most cases the contract length was 3, or 4 seasons).

Some of these GMs need to be saved from themselves.

yeah, it looks a bit like the young guys want to be paid for potential and as long there is one dumb enough GM to do so, the other GM´s will follow like sheep. I mean the last few years the salaries have gone up significantly, but 7.15 for a player who has 2 seasons under his belt with 65 and 47 points? What would he have cost if he had scored 65 points again, $8.5M?

Boeser is comparable to Keller point and gamewise and $7M+ will put Vancouver in serious trouble, will be interesting to see where they settle on shorter term contracts

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