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5 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

High percentage ? Says a chart?hes got 0 nhl points and is closer to 30 

and do you actually think adding gusev will help us  be a playoff team next year? Year after? If so I don’t know wtf to tell you

Hey Ryan lasch has been at the top of the shl league for years , let’s offer him a contract next 

Okay, it's probably, at the very least, just as foolish for you to project him at a lower NHL point total. Given that two separate projections that do this type of stuff all the time put him above 50 points, I'm going to side with them over your assumption. He's worth a second round pick, easy.

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5 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

High percentage ? Says a chart?hes got 0 nhl points and is closer to 30 

and do you actually think adding gusev will help us  be a playoff team next year? Year after? If so I don’t know wtf to tell you

Hey Ryan lasch has been at the top of the shl league for years , let’s offer him a contract next 

No it’s called not being a sheep and looking ahead instead of now , cause gusev is gonna f***en help us compete for playoffs next few years , snap out of it man your just so desperate to get in the playoffs and do nothing 

ya let’s pick up guys who’s never played an nhl game cause he puts pts up in Europe , let’s start looking at the shl league,Czech league etc,,, and target guys who can put up pts 

please

:lol:

Says every chart, analytics, analyst, everybody except some schmuck, Steve, that thinks he knows everything, but in reality knows very little...

Do I think Gusev puts us over the top? No. Do I think he could be a key piece to move us forward? Sure. And for the low, low price of a 2nd round pick, I would do it in a heartbeat.

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Of course firsts,seconds can bust just like a 27 yr old kid from Russia with 0 nhl experience can,

Anyone can bust, we agree there, but there is a tremendous difference between a player who is literally the best player in a foreign league and a player who is often the 13th forward on their foreign team. Can you acknowledge that?

Berggren is young and may turn out to be a good player one day, but he also may not. 2nd round picks only have about a 40% success rate of ever making the NHL.

With Gusev development is over. He's a tremendous hockey player. You're getting a player who is going to contribute to your team. The only question is in what capacity. 40 pts or 80 pts?

0 NHL experience applies to both players. I'm very confused as to why you think that fact is relevant to your argument?

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

you can talk about sure things but there aren’t any

It's pretty safe to say Gusev is more talented than most of the NHL. His international play is evidence of that. I'm not saying you're fersure getting the next Panarin, but I am saying you're getting an NHL caliber player. You can't say that about Berggren.

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

will the wings make the playoffs with gusev? Answer is easily no , we sign him for two years he walks or goes back to khl and berggren is 21 , ya great solid move .... not saying I wouldn’t move him but it sure as hell wouldn’t be for a 27 yr old khl guy , I’d much rather go for a younger played 18-23 range preferably a dman but with svechnikovs injury history and not being impressed by Rasmussen this far I’d rather keep berggren to go along with zadina a

Slow down and reel it in. You're all over the place. Svech, Ras, Zadina have no bearing to the topic.

I'm almost always going to favor improving the roster. Especially in the offseason. If you're trying to convince me that we shouldn't obtain a possible star caliber player for cheap because we still won't win next year or the year after this is gonna be a short discussion.

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

yes people follow it but im sure people in hockey don’t solely count on that to make decisions ,I’m sure there have been plenty of people with favourable numbers who dissapoined , fact is he hasn’t played a game in the league which is a far superior league so far all we know he can go off and get 25-30 pts 

You're right. I'm sure hockey people don't go solely on translation factors. That would be pretty stupid, which is why I never suggested such a thing. I also agree there are probably plenty of players with favorable numbers who disappointed. I disagree though that "we know he can off and 25-30 pts". Conservative estimates have him at 50 pts and liberal ones have him at 80 pts.

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

ryan dzingel ? Easy hard no , there’s a reason he’s not signed yet ... guy is 27 and just recently had back to back 20 goals and stumbled horribly at the end of the season with Columbus so I’m not gonna go ahead and sign him for 4-5 years at like 5 per let alone trade away a top prospect , I know we suck right now but it feels like everyone is trying to fast forward this s*** storm were in when none of these guys will make us get in the playoffs or help us accomplish anything but falling 10-15 pts out of a playoff spot

You're fiendish love of tanking, the draft, and prospects in general is well documented, you don't need to remind me.

Lemme ask you this, would you give up our 2nd rounder next year for Dzingel straight up?

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

A 27 yr old could be on your roster spot but he can also be gone pretty quick, if we’re gonna start targeting  guys just cause the put up points in foreign leagues might as well look at the shl or nla leagues

And a 19 year old may never make your roster. Berggren put up 3 pts in a foreign league last year, why are you so high on him?

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Panarin came here as a 24 yr old kid and was one of the more dominating players in the game I’m not gonna say a 31 yr old from Russia would come here and take the league by storm , if he was truly this great player Vegas would have found a way to play him would they not?

Gusev is coming here as a 27 year old kid and is the MOST dominate player in the same league that Panarin came to us from.

Vegas doesn't have room to sign him.

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Anyways it’s cool we have a difference of opinion you like the guy more than I do ... would I take a flyer on him? Sure , if we took in like clarksons contract and did them a favour or/and gave them back their 3rd pick type deal ... I’ve seen you boost up mcisaac , pretty sure you wouldnt trade him would you? Why not ?berggren was picked she’s of him , sure you’d say he’s a dman and we need dmen on this roster and yes that’s true but we also have a bunch of new dmen in the pipeline now

I would trade McIsaac for Gusev in a heartbeat.

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

anyways I just don’t think it’s a smart move to trade a piece like berggren unless it’s for a younger core guy that can grow up with the team and take us towards the future with hopefully some good results 

As opposed to you who wants to get in the playoffs and get bounced every year first round

gettinginandgoingnowhereisjustsomuchfun

I never claimed Gusev would even get us into the playoffs next year. I simply want to add a potentially superstar player to the roster for cheap. Gusev for Berggren is cheap.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think Kerfoot is worth that, and Ceci definitely isn't worth that. To be honest, I think the Leafs would be more than happy to let both go for 2nd round picks. Neither were key pieces in those trade. The key to both trades was to offload salary, and they did that. Offersheeting two of these players would help the Leafs even more in my opinion. Kerfoot is decent, not spectacular, but Ceci is f***ing bad.

Kerfoot is a young 40 pt centermen and Ceci is a young RH D who's playing good minutes. I dunno much about either but I'll take your word on it I guess.

8 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You wont give up a 2nd rounder for a high percentage 2nd line winger.  Its ridiculous.

Get em

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32 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

High percentage ? Says a chart?hes got 0 nhl points and is closer to 30 

and do you actually think adding gusev will help us  be a playoff team next year? Year after? If so I don’t know wtf to tell you

Hey Ryan lasch has been at the top of the shl league for years , let’s offer him a contract next 

No it’s called not being a sheep and looking ahead instead of now , cause gusev is gonna f***en help us compete for playoffs next few years , snap out of it man your just so desperate to get in the playoffs and do nothing 

ya let’s pick up guys who’s never played an nhl game cause he puts pts up in Europe , let’s start looking at the shl league,Czech league etc,,, and target guys who can put up pts 

please

 

oh and you realize veleno was picked 2 spots before berggren so could have easily been talking about veleno and if we dealt him for a gusev , and today you’d be bitching we dealt veleno away 

I take it you knew very little about Gusev before recently? I don't mean that as a dig. He's been the most coveted player outside of the NHL for like 4 years now. He's not Ryan Lasch lol.

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42 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Okay, it's probably, at the very least, just as foolish for you to project him at a lower NHL point total. Given that two separate projections that do this type of stuff all the time put him above 50 points, I'm going to side with them over your assumption. He's worth a second round pick, easy.

Yes let’s side with people who do chart projections on players ... cause that s*** always works out 

side with them all you want and throw away futures , it’s your right 

40 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

:lol:

Says every chart, analytics, analyst, everybody except some schmuck, Steve, that thinks he knows everything, but in reality knows very little...

Do I think Gusev puts us over the top? No. Do I think he could be a key piece to move us forward? Sure. And for the low, low price of a 2nd round pick, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Yes I’m gonna solely look at analytic charts to dictate how each player will ever perform lmao  only schmucks such as yourself would do that s*** rather than have an opinion on a player Of your own 

key piece in us moving forward lmfao what dream world you living in man , he wants a 2 year deal which will lead him to Ufa status and I wouldn’t bet money on a Russian coming here to play hockey , it’s all about the highest bidder with them ... and I can bet you all internet money you want right now with our without gusev we’re not making no playoffs thus making the low low low low low low cost us of a 2nd round pick to get him , a complete waste of a transaction 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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43 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Anyone can bust, we agree there, but there is a tremendous difference between a player who is literally the best player in a foreign league and a player who is often the 13th forward on their foreign team. Can you acknowledge that?

Berggren is young and may turn out to be a good player one day, but he also may not. 2nd round picks only have about a 40% success rate of ever making the NHL.

With Gusev development is over. He's a tremendous hockey player. You're getting a player who is going to contribute to your team. The only question is in what capacity. 40 pts or 80 pts?

0 NHL experience applies to both players. I'm very confused as to why you think that fact is relevant to your argument?

It's pretty safe to say Gusev is more talented than most of the NHL. His international play is evidence of that. I'm not saying you're fersure getting the next Panarin, but I am saying you're getting an NHL caliber player. You can't say that about Berggren.

Slow down and reel it in. You're all over the place. Svech, Ras, Zadina have no bearing to the topic.

I'm almost always going to favor improving the roster. Especially in the offseason. If you're trying to convince me that we shouldn't obtain a possible star caliber player for cheap because we still won't win next year or the year after this is gonna be a short discussion.

You're right. I'm sure hockey people don't go solely on translation factors. That would be pretty stupid, which is why I never suggested such a thing. I also agree there are probably plenty of players with favorable numbers who disappointed. I disagree though that "we know he can off and 25-30 pts". Conservative estimates have him at 50 pts and liberal ones have him at 80 pts.

You're fiendish love of tanking, the draft, and prospects in general is well documented, you don't need to remind me.

Lemme ask you this, would you give up our 2nd rounder next year for Dzingel straight up?

And a 19 year old may never make your roster. Berggren put up 3 pts in a foreign league last year, why are you so high on him?

Gusev is coming here as a 27 year old kid and is the MOST dominate player in the same league that Panarin came to us from.

Vegas doesn't have room to sign him.

I would trade McIsaac for Gusev in a heartbeat.

I never claimed Gusev would even get us into the playoffs next year. I simply want to add a potentially superstar player to the roster for cheap. Gusev for Berggren is cheap.

Kerfoot is a young 40 pt centermen and Ceci is a young RH D who's playing good minutes. I dunno much about either but I'll take your word on it I guess.

Get em

We’re just grasping at straws man , why don’t we go get guys in the shl league that dominate the standings year after year? How many times have we seen the next superstar Russian player that has come here and been a complete disaster ? Panarin is on a class of his own , if I were to bet money I sure as heck wouldn’t put money on a 27 yr old guy coming here to dominate the league 

2nd round picks have only 40% chance of making the league so let’s trade them all?mcisaac?tuomisto ? ... obviously I would if it were for a younger kid with upside but not a gusev ... and just cause 2nds have a 40% chance doesn’t mean we just dismiss them , you realize as well the further we go along the draft the lower the % , were not going anywhere nex few years and gusev wouldn’t be a part of our future no matter what most people here would like to think so I’d keep mcisaac,berggren etc... and yes that 2nd cause for all we know it can be the 32nd pick and if it were this year I’d have rather have a brink,kaliyev that drops over gusev ... that’s my opinion and honestly couldn’t care less if no one agrees with me 

Development is over Lmao no s*** he’s 27 , let’s call up johan Ryno see if he wants to come back last I checked he had like a point a game in the shl ... 80 pts lol let me ask you something if this kid was so good and can hit 80 points of you honestly think Vegas would deal him? Cause if I’m a gm and thought this same nonsense you do I’d guarantee you Eakins and reeves would be headed out to keep this Russian phenom around . For all we know he can be going back to Russian within two years

Because one is 8 years younger than the other? One would be with the club when start making noise and be in the same age group as the veleno’s and Zadina’s  and don’t say we’ll need veterans on the club...I agree with that just not with someone with no nhl experience and who might not be here for long

i think it’s pretty ridiculous to look at “conservative” estimates or charts of any kind to judge a player , have you watched this guy play? Maybe you have but I guarantee most just look at these charts and stats and think this guys gonna be f***en good let’s get him 

i am pro rebuild cause that’s the only way this team is going to get star players here , nobody wants to sign with Detroit now ,doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trade a mcisaac or a berggren for another teams young star like provorov or bean etc... just not a gusev who’s close to 30 and won’t be here when this team turns it around , makes zero sense  

anyways I’ve ranted off way more than I wanted to on this subject , you guys are all sold on this 27 year old kid from Russia , I’m not going to change my mind on this and neither are none of you guys and I’m fine with it and honestly don’t care 

38 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I take it you knew very little about Gusev before recently? I don't mean that as a dig. He's been the most coveted player outside of the NHL for like 4 years now. He's not Ryan Lasch lol.

Heard about him a few years ago just like I heard of all these other Russians who came here and done nothing , I’ve also heard of best player outside the nhl and countless of times they’ve amounted to nothing , so just cause this guy dominates a league like Ryan lasch dominates all the Swedish ladies lol I’m not gonna start getting ahead of myself and claim him to be the next Russian star 

we’ll see what he becomes ... and If he does I’m sure countless gm’s like yzerman will be scouting khl so we might get your future gusev/Panarin near enough 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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17 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

VGK dropped the ball with Shipachyov and they're about to make a bigger mistake in losing Gusev. 

 

If he’s that great I doubt they’ll move him so we’re probably wasting each others times on this nonsense , they have guys like Eakins that can be easily moved to retain him 

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https://wingsnation.com/2019/07/02/red-wings-reportedly-showing-interest-in-nikita-gusev/

Quote

Roughly translated, the above tweet from Igor Eronko’s Russian account reads:

Gusev wants around 8M for 2 years, Vegas, consider, offers 4M (the ceiling presses even after unloading). Columbus, Detroit and San Jose should be thoughtful

Quote

The big question is what is the cost going to be to acquire him? The Golden Knights certainly can’t take on more cap space, so it may come down to a cap dump on their part. Would Steve Yzerman be open to taking David Clarkson‘s cap hit to add Gusev to the lineup? It’s certainly worth thinking about.

We know that Yzerman has liked the player historically. In 2012, Gusev was drafted 202nd overall by the Tampa Bay Lightning. That may be a bit of a stretch in connecting the dots, but it certainly shows that Yzerman was interested once before, so why not now?

Edited by Dabura

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if we seriously have a shot at Gusev, we need to get him here! Vegas has to give him up. it shouldn't even cost us Berggren. Hell,  Toronto had to give up a 1st just to dump Marleau. our 2020 2nd round pick (considering it should be in the 30's) should get him here. I'd be ok with that. we've got a ton of prospects, we woul dnt miss one 2nd.

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3 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Yes let’s side with people who do chart projections on players ... cause that s*** always works out 

side with them all you want and throw away futures , it’s your right 

Yes I’m gonna solely look at analytic charts to dictate how each player will ever perform lmao  only schmucks such as yourself would do that s*** rather than have an opinion on a player Of your own 

key piece in us moving forward lmfao what dream world you living in man , he wants a 2 year deal which will lead him to Ufa status and I wouldn’t bet money on a Russian coming here to play hockey , it’s all about the highest bidder with them ... and I can bet you all internet money you want right now with our without gusev we’re not making no playoffs thus making the low low low low low low cost us of a 2nd round pick to get him , a complete waste of a transaction 

Sorry, when I said KHL bias, I really meant Russian bias. Yikes

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3 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’re just grasping at straws man , why don’t we go get guys in the shl league that dominate the standings year after year? How many times have we seen the next superstar Russian player that has come here and been a complete disaster ? Panarin is on a class of his own , if I were to bet money I sure as heck wouldn’t put money on a 27 yr old guy coming here to dominate the league 

2nd round picks have only 40% chance of making the league so let’s trade them all?mcisaac?tuomisto ? ... obviously I would if it were for a younger kid with upside but not a gusev ... and just cause 2nds have a 40% chance doesn’t mean we just dismiss them , you realize as well the further we go along the draft the lower the % , were not going anywhere nex few years and gusev wouldn’t be a part of our future no matter what most people here would like to think so I’d keep mcisaac,berggren etc... and yes that 2nd cause for all we know it can be the 32nd pick and if it were this year I’d have rather have a brink,kaliyev that drops over gusev ... that’s my opinion and honestly couldn’t care less if no one agrees with me 

Development is over Lmao no s*** he’s 27 , let’s call up johan Ryno see if he wants to come back last I checked he had like a point a game in the shl ... 80 pts lol let me ask you something if this kid was so good and can hit 80 points of you honestly think Vegas would deal him? Cause if I’m a gm and thought this same nonsense you do I’d guarantee you Eakins and reeves would be headed out to keep this Russian phenom around . For all we know he can be going back to Russian within two years

Because one is 8 years younger than the other? One would be with the club when start making noise and be in the same age group as the veleno’s and Zadina’s  and don’t say we’ll need veterans on the club...I agree with that just not with someone with no nhl experience and who might not be here for long

i think it’s pretty ridiculous to look at “conservative” estimates or charts of any kind to judge a player , have you watched this guy play? Maybe you have but I guarantee most just look at these charts and stats and think this guys gonna be f***en good let’s get him 

i am pro rebuild cause that’s the only way this team is going to get star players here , nobody wants to sign with Detroit now ,doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trade a mcisaac or a berggren for another teams young star like provorov or bean etc... just not a gusev who’s close to 30 and won’t be here when this team turns it around , makes zero sense  

anyways I’ve ranted off way more than I wanted to on this subject , you guys are all sold on this 27 year old kid from Russia , I’m not going to change my mind on this and neither are none of you guys and I’m fine with it and honestly don’t care 

Heard about him a few years ago just like I heard of all these other Russians who came here and done nothing , I’ve also heard of best player outside the nhl and countless of times they’ve amounted to nothing , so just cause this guy dominates a league like Ryan lasch dominates all the Swedish ladies lol I’m not gonna start getting ahead of myself and claim him to be the next Russian star 

we’ll see what he becomes ... and If he does I’m sure countless gm’s like yzerman will be scouting khl so we might get your future gusev/Panarin near enough 

Hey, friend, I like you, but It's honestly impossible to argue with you sometimes. I say this most respectively. You call KRSmith crazy but you're all over the place here... You're diverging into rambling tagents and peripheral issues. I've already addressed and made my point clear on many of these things, you've just re-presented them in new fashion.

Again, most respectively, lets approach each thing one at a time. I'd love to continue the discussion, I just don't want to diverge into rambling where we re-hash the same stuff over n over. Ya know? It takes an ungodly amount of time for me to break down the discussion each time, I just wanna be productive when we discuss, and approach each point head on.

I hope that's fair? I'll try to address each of your points. I'd appreciate if you can respond in a similar fashion. Anything you have beef with just quote it directly and respond to it.  It's easy, just respond to the quote and delete what you don't wanna respond to and hit quote again to reopen a new brand new quote box for the next thing.

Again, full respect on the table, I just don't wanna waste either of our time.

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’re just grasping at straws man , why don’t we go get guys in the shl league that dominate the standings year after year? How many times have we seen the next superstar Russian player that has come here and been a complete disaster ? Panarin is on a class of his own , if I were to bet money I sure as heck wouldn’t put money on a 27 yr old guy coming here to dominate the league

I understand your point. It's a valid one. Why aren't we after Ryan Lasch if Panarin is so good?

Because dominate players in the SHL or NLA are not as good as players in the KHL.There's a reason the KHL translation factor is about 80% of the NHL, and the SHL is only 59% of the NHL. I'll expand on that. Nikita Gusev is also a prominent international player. In not so similar fashion Ryan Lasch doesn't play for team USA at the Olympics. Nikita Gusev is in a small group of players that are extremely good that are not in the NHL. This group probably includes Dastyuk as well, Kovalchuk was there not so long ago as well. That's sort of the weird enigma of Russia.

But I've talked about this already. I even offered up Shipachyov, a failed Russian high flyer, for discussion. Please keep on point.

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

2nd round picks have only 40% chance of making the league so let’s trade them all?mcisaac?tuomisto ? ... obviously I would if it were for a younger kid with upside but not a gusev ... and just cause 2nds have a 40% chance doesn’t mean we just dismiss them , you realize as well the further we go along the draft the lower the % , were not going anywhere nex few years and gusev wouldn’t be a part of our future no matter what most people here would like to think so I’d keep mcisaac,berggren etc... and yes that 2nd cause for all we know it can be the 32nd pick and if it were this year I’d have rather have a brink,kaliyev that drops over gusev ... that’s my opinion and honestly couldn’t care less if no one agrees with me

You're strawmanning here. I never said all 2nds should be traded. I also didn't say we should dismiss them all bc of a 40% success rate. If you're gonna lean on fallacy arguments this will go nowhere

The rest of the paragraph I'm honestly lost. Kaliyev has nothing to do with the discussion. I'd love to keep going but lets keep things on topic.

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Development is over Lmao no s*** he’s 27 , let’s call up johan Ryno see if he wants to come back last I checked he had like a point a game in the shl ... 80 pts lol let me ask you something if this kid was so good and can hit 80 points of you honestly think Vegas would deal him? Cause if I’m a gm and thought this same nonsense you do I’d guarantee you Eakins and reeves would be headed out to keep this Russian phenom around . For all we know he can be going back to Russian within two years

I'm confused. Most players are entering their prime around 25, 26, 27, 28, do you disagree? You act like like he's old, I wouldn't agree at all.

Again you're going into all sorts of nonsense about Ryno, Eakins, and Reeves. Lets keep this pointed...

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

i think it’s pretty ridiculous to look at “conservative” estimates or charts of any kind to judge a player , have you watched this guy play? Maybe you have but I guarantee most just look at these charts and stats and think this guys gonna be f***en good let’s get him

This is why I asked if you knew anything about him prior to recently. This is a tremendous hockey player we're talking about. You're acting like you've never watched the Olympics before. I assume you have. Everyone's seen this guy play. He's not Ryan Lasch or Nigel Dawes. He's top line coveted material.

You sound like someone who thought we wasted a draft pick on Fedorov in 89 to be honest lol.

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

i am pro rebuild cause that’s the only way this team is going to get star players here , nobody wants to sign with Detroit now ,doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trade a mcisaac or a berggren for another teams young star like provorov or bean etc... just not a gusev who’s close to 30 and won’t be here when this team turns it around , makes zero sense

27 =/= 30

27 is young in the NHL lol

Love how you avoided my questions btw. Would you trade our 2020 2nd for Dzingel straight up? Or will you always avoid this question?

 

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Since 2008-09, 25 players have scored 1.1 points/game or more in the KHL. 

Seven of them, including Gusev, have never really tried the NHL. A few played a handful of games in NA, but nothing significant.

Another seven tried for at least half a season, with a few trying for multiple years, but never made any impact. 

One had an ok NHL career, with 219 points in 451 games.

The other 10 are: Alexei Yashin, Pavol Demitra, Pavel Datsyuk, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Nicklas Backstrom, Alexander Radulov, Artemi Panarin, and Evgeni Dadonov.

So...10 stars, 1 mediocre player, 7 fails, and 7 unknowns. 

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1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Since 2008-09, 25 players have scored 1.1 points/game or more in the KHL. 

Seven of them, including Gusev, have never really tried the NHL. A few played a handful of games in NA, but nothing significant.

Another seven tried for at least half a season, with a few trying for multiple years, but never made any impact. 

One had an ok NHL career, with 219 points in 451 games.

The other 10 are: Alexei Yashin, Pavol Demitra, Pavel Datsyuk, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Nicklas Backstrom, Alexander Radulov, Artemi Panarin, and Evgeni Dadonov.

So...10 stars, 1 mediocre player, 7 fails, and 7 unknowns. 

Okay, now do this comparison for second round picks :P

 

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

impossible to argue with you

you're all over the place

You're diverging into rambling tagents and peripheral issues

You're strawmanning

nothing to do with the discussion

keep things on topic.

I'm confused

you're going into all sorts of nonsense

You have a hell of a lot more patience than me... This is all this guy ever does. Goes on random tangents and strawmans every argument...

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5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Hey, friend, I like you, but It's honestly impossible to argue with you sometimes. I say this most respectively. You call KRSmith crazy but you're all over the place here... You're diverging into rambling tagents and peripheral issues. I've already addressed and made my point clear on many of these things, you've just re-presented them in new fashion.

Again, most respectively, lets approach each thing one at a time. I'd love to continue the discussion, I just don't want to diverge into rambling where we re-hash the same stuff over n over. Ya know? It takes an ungodly amount of time for me to break down the discussion each time, I just wanna be productive when we discuss, and approach each point head on.

I hope that's fair? I'll try to address each of your points. I'd appreciate if you can respond in a similar fashion. Anything you have beef with just quote it directly and respond to it.  It's easy, just respond to the quote and delete what you don't wanna respond to and hit quote again to reopen a new brand new quote box for the next thing.

Again, full respect on the table, I just don't wanna waste either of our time.

I understand your point. It's a valid one. Why aren't we after Ryan Lasch if Panarin is so good?

Because dominate players in the SHL or NLA are not as good as players in the KHL.There's a reason the KHL translation factor is about 80% of the NHL, and the SHL is only 59% of the NHL. I'll expand on that. Nikita Gusev is also a prominent international player. In not so similar fashion Ryan Lasch doesn't play for team USA at the Olympics. Nikita Gusev is in a small group of players that are extremely good that are not in the NHL. This group probably includes Dastyuk as well, Kovalchuk was there not so long ago as well. That's sort of the weird enigma of Russia.

But I've talked about this already. I even offered up Shipachyov, a failed Russian high flyer, for discussion. Please keep on point.

You're strawmanning here. I never said all 2nds should be traded. I also didn't say we should dismiss them all bc of a 40% success rate. If you're gonna lean on fallacy arguments this will go nowhere

The rest of the paragraph I'm honestly lost. Kaliyev has nothing to do with the discussion. I'd love to keep going but lets keep things on topic.

I'm confused. Most players are entering their prime around 25, 26, 27, 28, do you disagree? You act like like he's old, I wouldn't agree at all.

Again you're going into all sorts of nonsense about Ryno, Eakins, and Reeves. Lets keep this pointed...

This is why I asked if you knew anything about him prior to recently. This is a tremendous hockey player we're talking about. You're acting like you've never watched the Olympics before. I assume you have. Everyone's seen this guy play. He's not Ryan Lasch or Nigel Dawes. He's top line coveted material.

You sound like someone who thought we wasted a draft pick on Fedorov in 89 to be honest lol.

27 =/= 30

27 is young in the NHL lol

Love how you avoided my questions btw. Would you trade our 2020 2nd for Dzingel straight up? Or will you always avoid this question?

 

Arguing? Im not arguing with anyone man lmao I have my own opinion you and others don’t agree with it , so what? Doesn’t affect my life whatsoever 

and I feel the exact same way , I’ve already made my opinion on this matter repeatedly and Its getting tiresome , I don’t even think there’s any point in this discussion since if hes as good as everyone believes Vegas will shop out reeves and other pieces to keep the player so there’s no point in getting worked up over gusev coming here or anywhere else 

never compared lasch to Panarin ... yes I’m well aware khl league is a better league than the other European leagues , I was making a point if we’re going to start targeting players top point getters in the khl we might as well start targeting guys who are at the top of their leagues as well ... remember Brunner? It happens ... outside Panarin though khl or any other league everyone has been a bust , might as well take a flyer on sabres ex grigorenko who had a good season at that point ... I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard best player outside of the nhl stuff on guys which amounted to not much, at the end of the day khl and nhl are two completely different leagues 

 

I mentioned kaliyev cause i was giving an example if we had the 32nd pick in the draft traded away for gusev it could have resulted in losing a kaliyev or brink ... this whole debate is going nowhere and is pointless 

Nonsense lmao  what prime are you talking about , he hasn’t even played 1 game in the nhl so to think he’s gonna be here in his prime and start racking up 50-70 pts easy  is quite ludicrous , he’s basically an older rookie playing a new game in a smaller rink with better bigger nastier players his prime means nothing .... and I bring up 27 cause the rumours are he wants two year deal , likely scenario is he f***s off after two years and goes after big money like all the Russians seem to do , what’s he gonna do for this team in two years? Absolutely nothing . We’re not getting in the playoffs with our without him , now if we got him for a package I can live with I’d be indifferent but I’m not giving up a mcisaac or berggren for two years of a guy who’s close to 30 with 0 nhl games 

Trading eakens  and reeves = keeping gusev

Yes I’ve watched all the world tournaments , and I’ve seen lots of guys have great tournaments who’s vanished ... yes we wasted a pick on fedorov lmao I’m probably one of the only people who keep bitching at wings fans who think fedorov doesn’t deserve to get his jersey retired , the fact it still hasn’t happened is f***en ridiculous ... but that’s a discussion for another day

I didn’t avoid your questions I went on a nice rant and got fed up of basically repeating the same s*** over and over cause I dare to not have the same opinion as like 8 ppl on this board lol and I can’t even enjoy my morning coffee cause it’s f***en cold now ... bastard lmao

I didn’t avoid s*** man I replied no to Ryan dzingel whether it was to you or one of your minions lol hes 27 and just had 2 20 goal -40 pt  seasons which to me is nothing to crazy for , and he tanked with Columbus the rest of the season , there’s a reason no ones rushing to sign him and honestly there’s no one left in free agency I’d take .... now if you say ryan dzingel one year 4,5 million? Sure I’ll take him and send his ass packing on deadline day 

 

now im pretty sure your just as fed up of this whole gusev stuff as I am so I’d rather not speak about this guy ever again in my life unless he’s a redwing or if he comes here and gets his 75 pts I’ll be here saying I was wrong , but Id still say he’d probably leave after 2 years anyways but would have been good trade bait for us ... anyways i think he’s  staying in Vegas 

 

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You have a hell of a lot more patience than me... This is all this guy ever does. Goes on random tangents and strawmans every argument...

This coming from the guy I see Always going off with Mackel , majonas and countless others lmao

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3 hours ago, Buppy said:

Since 2008-09, 25 players have scored 1.1 points/game or more in the KHL. 

Seven of them, including Gusev, have never really tried the NHL. A few played a handful of games in NA, but nothing significant.

Another seven tried for at least half a season, with a few trying for multiple years, but never made any impact. 

One had an ok NHL career, with 219 points in 451 games.

The other 10 are: Alexei Yashin, Pavol Demitra, Pavel Datsyuk, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Nicklas Backstrom, Alexander Radulov, Artemi Panarin, and Evgeni Dadonov.

So...10 stars, 1 mediocre player, 7 fails, and 7 unknowns. 

8 out of 10 of those guys were drafted 1st round and started their careers very young  .... so basically Panarin and dadonov are the only ones who came from the khl to have success , so 2 out of 17 ... I like those odds 

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11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

if we seriously have a shot at Gusev, we need to get him here! Vegas has to give him up. it shouldn't even cost us Berggren. Hell,  Toronto had to give up a 1st just to dump Marleau. our 2020 2nd round pick (considering it should be in the 30's) should get him here. I'd be ok with that. we've got a ton of prospects, we woul dnt miss one 2nd.

oops, I forgot this was going on here, I posted about it again (on accident) in the Yzerplan thread.  In that post I've since changed the 2nd round to Washington's 2nd round because I realized that Toronto only got a 6th back in return for Marleau dump and a 2nd round to VGK to dump some salary should be plenty!  I kind of hope this happens, I know we have plenty of "kids" coming up, but as argued here recently, you'd be getting a Pro hockey player at 27 (July 8) who lead a professional league in scoring, PLUS had 16 points in 10 games at the world championship tournament.  Maybe asking for the 1st in return is too much, but they are super desperate to dump salary, maybe Yzerman can get it done...

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

This coming from the guy I see Always going off with Mackel , majonas and countless others lmao

What does that have to do with strawmaning and constantly trying to put words in people's mouths? Yesterday, I said "he could be a bust" (although unlikely in my opinion), and in the very next post, you respond by saying that I "think he's a sure hit"... You always do it. I love a good debate, but it's beyond frustrating attempting to have any sort of conversation with you when all you ever do is try to twist words to fit your argument...

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11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What does that have to do with strawmaning and constantly trying to put words in people's mouths? Yesterday, I said "he could be a bust" (although unlikely in my opinion), and in the very next post, you respond by saying that I "think he's a sure hit"... You always do it. I love a good debate, but it's beyond frustrating attempting to have any sort of conversation with you when all you ever do is try to twist words to fit your argument...

I put words in peoples mouth lmao .... yes you said he could be a bust which I knew you ddidnt believe that which  you Just stated cause you keep ranting on and on about the guy about how good he is so obviously you don’t believe in your heart of hearts he’s a 35-45 point guy and possibly 60-80 pts if I’m wrong let me know 

if you find it frustrating to talk to me just ignore my posts and move on to the next one it’s pretty simple ,I have my own opinions on s*** and we both appear to be people who aren’t easily swayed from own opinions on players and that’s fine 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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11 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I put words in peoples mouth lmao ....

Yes. All the f***ing time. You're the king of strawmaning...

Anyway, one last time...

Gusev is an extremely talented hockey player. He's coming over to North America to play in the NHL for the first time. Not because he wasn't talented enough the past 5 years, but because up until now he wanted to stay in Russia. He's been a highly coveted prospect for years, but is only now willing to come over to North America. He could be a stud, or he could be a bust. I'm aware of the risk. I think the chances of him being a legit top 6 winger, is much higher than him being a complete bust though. I think the potential reward outweighs the potential risk, and I'd trade a 2nd round pick any day for a player of his caliber. If you wouldn't that's completely fine. I just think you put way too high a value on draft picks outside the 1st round.

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Arguing? Im not arguing with anyone man lmao I have my own opinion you and others don’t agree with it , so what? Doesn’t affect my life whatsoever 

and I feel the exact same way , I’ve already made my opinion on this matter repeatedly and Its getting tiresome , I don’t even think there’s any point in this discussion since if hes as good as everyone believes Vegas will shop out reeves and other pieces to keep the player so there’s no point in getting worked up over gusev coming here or anywhere else 

never compared lasch to Panarin ... yes I’m well aware khl league is a better league than the other European leagues , I was making a point if we’re going to start targeting players top point getters in the khl we might as well start targeting guys who are at the top of their leagues as well ... remember Brunner? It happens ... outside Panarin though khl or any other league everyone has been a bust , might as well take a flyer on sabres ex grigorenko who had a good season at that point ... I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard best player outside of the nhl stuff on guys which amounted to not much, at the end of the day khl and nhl are two completely different leagues 

 

I mentioned kaliyev cause i was giving an example if we had the 32nd pick in the draft traded away for gusev it could have resulted in losing a kaliyev or brink ... this whole debate is going nowhere and is pointless 

Nonsense lmao  what prime are you talking about , he hasn’t even played 1 game in the nhl so to think he’s gonna be here in his prime and start racking up 50-70 pts easy  is quite ludicrous , he’s basically an older rookie playing a new game in a smaller rink with better bigger nastier players his prime means nothing .... and I bring up 27 cause the rumours are he wants two year deal , likely scenario is he f***s off after two years and goes after big money like all the Russians seem to do , what’s he gonna do for this team in two years? Absolutely nothing . We’re not getting in the playoffs with our without him , now if we got him for a package I can live with I’d be indifferent but I’m not giving up a mcisaac or berggren for two years of a guy who’s close to 30 with 0 nhl games 

Trading eakens  and reeves = keeping gusev

Yes I’ve watched all the world tournaments , and I’ve seen lots of guys have great tournaments who’s vanished ... yes we wasted a pick on fedorov lmao I’m probably one of the only people who keep bitching at wings fans who think fedorov doesn’t deserve to get his jersey retired , the fact it still hasn’t happened is f***en ridiculous ... but that’s a discussion for another day

I didn’t avoid your questions I went on a nice rant and got fed up of basically repeating the same s*** over and over cause I dare to not have the same opinion as like 8 ppl on this board lol and I can’t even enjoy my morning coffee cause it’s f***en cold now ... bastard lmao

I didn’t avoid s*** man I replied no to Ryan dzingel whether it was to you or one of your minions lol hes 27 and just had 2 20 goal -40 pt  seasons which to me is nothing to crazy for , and he tanked with Columbus the rest of the season , there’s a reason no ones rushing to sign him and honestly there’s no one left in free agency I’d take .... now if you say ryan dzingel one year 4,5 million? Sure I’ll take him and send his ass packing on deadline day 

 

now im pretty sure your just as fed up of this whole gusev stuff as I am so I’d rather not speak about this guy ever again in my life unless he’s a redwing or if he comes here and gets his 75 pts I’ll be here saying I was wrong , but Id still say he’d probably leave after 2 years anyways but would have been good trade bait for us ... anyways i think he’s  staying in Vegas 

 

This coming from the guy I see Always going off with Mackel , majonas and countless others lmao

OK fersure man.

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Nonsense lmao  what prime are you talking about , he hasn’t even played 1 game in the nhl so to think he’s gonna be here in his prime and start racking up 50-70 pts easy  is quite ludicrous , he’s basically an older rookie playing a new game in a smaller rink with better bigger nastier players his prime means nothing .... and I bring up 27 cause the rumours are he wants two year deal , likely scenario is he f***s off after two years and goes after big money like all the Russians seem to do , what’s he gonna do for this team in two years? Absolutely nothing . We’re not getting in the playoffs with our without him , now if we got him for a package I can live with I’d be indifferent but I’m not giving up a mcisaac or berggren for two years of a guy who’s close to 30 with 0 nhl games

This is a classic example of one of your paragraphs of thought I didn't wanna get bogged down in... You start it by mentioning he's never played an NHL game before for the 1000th time (WE KNOW, neither has Berggren, it's not forwarding the discussion and I'm not gonna address over n over). That somehow transitions into his age, then how he's gonna ditch us in 2 years, then how Russians only want money, then how we're not winning s*** in 2 years, then but if we get him in a package you like it's ok, then how he's nearly 30 (actually turns 27 in about a week), and then you end it all by reminding us he hasn't played in the NHL yet AGAIN.

I'm not saying you don't have some points in there. I'm saying you're so scattered I have to break down your text walls line by line to address your points. You need to organize your thoughts in an approachable way. But you haven't so I will respectfully just drop it and walk away.

Peace.

 

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57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes. All the f***ing time. You're the king of strawmaning...

Anyway, one last time...

Gusev is an extremely talented hockey player. He's coming over to North America to play in the NHL for the first time. Not because he wasn't talented enough the past 5 years, but because up until now he wanted to stay in Russia. He's been a highly coveted prospect for years, but is only now willing to come over to North America. He could be a stud, or he could be a bust. I'm aware of the risk. I think the chances of him being a legit top 6 winger, is much higher than him being a complete bust though. I think the potential reward outweighs the potential risk, and I'd trade a 2nd round pick any day for a player of his caliber. If you wouldn't that's completely fine. I just think you put way too high a value on draft picks outside the 1st round.

Gotcha 

38 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

OK fersure man.

This is a classic example of one of your paragraphs of thought I didn't wanna get bogged down in... You start it by mentioning he's never played an NHL game before for the 1000th time (WE KNOW, neither has Berggren, it's not forwarding the discussion and I'm not gonna address over n over). That somehow transitions into his age, then how he's gonna ditch us in 2 years, then how Russians only want money, then how we're not winning s*** in 2 years, then but if we get him in a package you like it's ok, then how he's nearly 30 (actually turns 27 in about a week), and then you end it all by reminding us he hasn't played in the NHL yet AGAIN.

I'm not saying you don't have some points in there. I'm saying you're so scattered I have to break down your text walls line by line to address your points. You need to organize your thoughts in an approachable way. But you haven't so I will respectfully just drop it and walk away.

Peace.

 

 

39 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

OK fersure man.

This is a classic example of one of your paragraphs of thought I didn't wanna get bogged down in... You start it by mentioning he's never played an NHL game before for the 1000th time (WE KNOW, neither has Berggren, it's not forwarding the discussion and I'm not gonna address over n over). That somehow transitions into his age, then how he's gonna ditch us in 2 years, then how Russians only want money, then how we're not winning s*** in 2 years, then but if we get him in a package you like it's ok, then how he's nearly 30 (actually turns 27 in about a week), and then you end it all by reminding us he hasn't played in the NHL yet AGAIN.

I'm not saying you don't have some points in there. I'm saying you're so scattered I have to break down your text walls line by line to address your points. You need to organize your thoughts in an approachable way. But you haven't so I will respectfully just drop it and walk away.

Peace.

 

Perfect

peace

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