Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes. All the f***ing time. You're the king of strawmaning...

Anyway, one last time...

Gusev is an extremely talented hockey player. He's coming over to North America to play in the NHL for the first time. Not because he wasn't talented enough the past 5 years, but because up until now he wanted to stay in Russia. He's been a highly coveted prospect for years, but is only now willing to come over to North America. He could be a stud, or he could be a bust. I'm aware of the risk. I think the chances of him being a legit top 6 winger, is much higher than him being a complete bust though. I think the potential reward outweighs the potential risk, and I'd trade a 2nd round pick any day for a player of his caliber. If you wouldn't that's completely fine. I just think you put way too high a value on draft picks outside the 1st round.

I assume Gusev has waited until he's exactly 27 partially to avoid an ELC? I'm unclear on the rules on this, but I assume after 26 (the RFA cutoff) you don't have to sign ELC's anymore?

However, I wouldn't mind some bonus heavy contract like Panarin originally signed with Chicago. Give him say 2 years at $4 mil baseline, with the ability to earn up to $6 mil depending on points and games played.

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1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Sorta surprised to see Gardiner still on the market...Either he's damaged goods (rumors of back issues), and/or he's asking way too much $$$, and term.

Ya I heard he has some back issues so that’s what’s scaring off teams probably, maybe we can sign him to a one year deal like devils did with simmonds and offer him 6-7 mill? If he does really good we can try and retain him or ... I haven’t checked the Ufa list for 2020 yet but you’d have to think with green and Gardner we’d have two of the top dmen available at the 2020 trade deadline available 

if he really does have back issues and is worried he might got for something like 5x3 or 6x3 if he can find a sucker ... sure habs would do it in a second since they  can’t attract free agents here 

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8 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

8 out of 10 of those guys were drafted 1st round and started their careers very young  .... so basically Panarin and dadonov are the only ones who came from the khl to have success , so 2 out of 17 ... I like those odds 

From 2008 through 2015, there were 35 skaters drafted in the first 5 picks of the 2nd round.

17 of them failed to make it in the NHL. (A few more may make that list, but are still young)

15 of them range from fringe NHLers (who may yet drop to the fail list) to decent depth players

1 was Slava Voynov, who was good but retarded

The last two are Ryan O'Reilly and Sebastian Aho.

So... 2 stars, 1 wife beater, 15 nobodies, 17 failures, and 0 unknowns.

So even if you count all the KHLers who never tried the NHL as failures, and for some weird reason being drafted in the first round means you don't count, and for some weirder reason this is all happening in an alternate universe where Datsyuk and Demitra were drafted in the first round... Gusev STILL has DOUBLE the chance of being a star than an early 2nd round pick does.

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2 minutes ago, Buppy said:

From 2008 through 2015, there were 35 skaters drafted in the first 5 picks of the 2nd round.

17 of them failed to make it in the NHL. (A few more may make that list, but are still young)

15 of them range from fringe NHLers (who may yet drop to the fail list) to decent depth players

1 was Slava Voynov, who was good but retarded

The last two are Ryan O'Reilly and Sebastian Aho.

So... 2 stars, 1 wife beater, 15 nobodies, 17 failures, and 0 unknowns.

So even if you count all the KHLers who never tried the NHL as failures, and for some weird reason being drafted in the first round means you don't count, and for some weirder reason this is all happening in an alternate universe where Datsyuk and Demitra were drafted in the first round... Gusev STILL has DOUBLE the chance of being a star than an early 2nd round pick does.

#teamGusev. Get er done Stephen

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9 minutes ago, Buppy said:

From 2008 through 2015, there were 35 skaters drafted in the first 5 picks of the 2nd round.

17 of them failed to make it in the NHL. (A few more may make that list, but are still young)

15 of them range from fringe NHLers (who may yet drop to the fail list) to decent depth players

1 was Slava Voynov, who was good but retarded

The last two are Ryan O'Reilly and Sebastian Aho.

So... 2 stars, 1 wife beater, 15 nobodies, 17 failures, and 0 unknowns.

So even if you count all the KHLers who never tried the NHL as failures, and for some weird reason being drafted in the first round means you don't count, and for some weirder reason this is all happening in an alternate universe where Datsyuk and Demitra were drafted in the first round... Gusev STILL has DOUBLE the chance of being a star than an early 2nd round pick does.

We’re talking about players coming from the khl to try and make it later in their careers , how do first round khl players and datsyuk,demitras fit into this ? As far as I see from what I can remember and I could be wrong but so far it’s been Panarin and dadonov and that’s it

you think gusev has double the chance of being a star from whatever odds you’ve come up With  good on ya, that’s your opinion and as long as you believe it who gives a s*** what I or anyone thinks 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’re talking about players coming from the khl to try and make it later in their careers , how do first round khl players and datsyuk,demitras fit into this ? As far as I see from what I can remember and I could be wrong but so far it’s been Panarin and dadonov and that’s it

you think gusev has double the chance of being a star from whatever odds you’ve come up With  good on ya, that’s your opinion and as long as you believe it who gives a s*** what I or anyone thinks 

No, you're talking about "players coming from the KHL to try and make it later in their careers". The rest of us are talking about the much more relevant "players who are really good". 

But even if we want to play by your rules...

You should include Radulov. He did start in the NHL early, like Dadonov, but also like Dadonov left at 22 for the KHL, then came back to the NHL later and much better than when he left. Also, Datsyuk was only a year younger than Panarin when he joined the Wings, and didn't match Panarin's production until he was 25. Didn't become a point/game player until he was Gusev's age for that matter. 

Also you'd need to exclude almost everyone else from my list, as only a few attempted to come to NHL later in their 20s. Most either never tried or washed out in their early 20s then went on to become good players in the KHL after.

So while there are only a few players comparable to Gusev that have succeeded, there are also only a few who have tried. Going by your criteria it's more like a 50/50 chance. 10x better than the chance of your 2nd round pick being the next O'Reilly.

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whats the hype over gusev? 26 and hasnt played a single nhl game

if your going to give up s*** for him you shouldve thrown it at kadri at least he has 2 30 goal years 

really dont need another play maker. if thats the case bring back datsyuk for a mil

teams not going anywhere havent upgraded defense at all and thats the biggest problem. signing ericsson 2.0 doesnt help any. i wouldve kept kronwall

i guess no one too excited about filppula since he didnt even get his own thread haha

idk i expected one big name just to keep fans interested.

Edited by brett

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10 minutes ago, brett said:

whats the hype over gusev? 26 and hasnt played a single nhl game

if your going to give up s*** for him you shouldve thrown it at kadri at least he has 2 30 goal years

It cost Colorado a lot to acquire Kadri. It wouldn't cost nearly as much to acquire Gusev. If we're talking a non-1st or taking on David Clarkson's contract, that's a low-risk, high-reward addition.

I'm 100% down with adding a good young top-six scoring winger on a cheapish two-year deal. Contrary to what anyone says, we're not especially deep at the wing positions.

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18 minutes ago, brett said:

whats the hype over gusev? 26 and hasnt played a single nhl game

He hasn't played a single NHL game because he hasn't wanted to until now

19 minutes ago, brett said:

if your going to give up s*** for him you shouldve thrown it at kadri at least he has 2 30 goal years

What @Dabura said. Gusev could be an elite winger in the NHL as soon as next year. If I can get that for a 3rd and 1 year of Clarksons contract, Done deal.

22 minutes ago, brett said:

really dont need another play maker. if thats the case bring back datsyuk for a mil

Dastyuk wanted to finish his career with his hometown team. He said that years ago. He's doing that.

23 minutes ago, brett said:

teams not going anywhere havent upgraded defense at all and thats the biggest problem. signing ericsson 2.0 doesnt help any. i wouldve kept kronwall

E 2.0 will be nothing special, you're right. Sure seems like Kronwall will be retiring.

24 minutes ago, brett said:

i guess no one too excited about filppula since he didnt even get his own thread haha

LGW is lazy and it sucks

25 minutes ago, brett said:

idk i expected one big name just to keep fans interested.

Gusev

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18 minutes ago, brett said:

whats the hype over gusev? 26 and hasnt played a single nhl game...

Without rehashing the entirety of our debate with Joosh, the hype is that he's been a dominant player in the KHL for 3 1/2 years, the reason he hasn't played in the NHL is because he's been committed to the KHL until now, historical precedent and analysis of the available data suggest there is a good chance he would be a very good NHL player and possibly even a star, and the cost to get his rights should not be all that high.  

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48 minutes ago, Buppy said:

No, you're talking about "players coming from the KHL to try and make it later in their careers". The rest of us are talking about the much more relevant "players who are really good". 

But even if we want to play by your rules...

You should include Radulov. He did start in the NHL early, like Dadonov, but also like Dadonov left at 22 for the KHL, then came back to the NHL later and much better than when he left. Also, Datsyuk was only a year younger than Panarin when he joined the Wings, and didn't match Panarin's production until he was 25. Didn't become a point/game player until he was Gusev's age for that matter. 

Also you'd need to exclude almost everyone else from my list, as only a few attempted to come to NHL later in their 20s. Most either never tried or washed out in their early 20s then went on to become good players in the KHL after.

So while there are only a few players comparable to Gusev that have succeeded, there are also only a few who have tried. Going by your criteria it's more like a 50/50 chance. 10x better than the chance of your 2nd round pick being the next O'Reilly.

Bringing up Malkin,ovie and other former khl top picks is pointless and they were all super young superstars or star players when they played in the nhl gusev is going to be 27 so obviously it makes sense to compare him with other late comers such as Panarin and dadonov

my rules lmao like I’m making s*** up ... radulov started his career young and had good numbers he didn’t leave cause he wasn’t performing he left over money issues , dadonov’s nhl debug was nothing to write home about , came back all these years later and now he’s performing 

datsyuk also didn’t put up solid khl numbers at all so by your logic gusev should blow him out of the water since he’s dominating khl right? Stats don’t always tell everything  , datsyuk also played in a time when it was harder to score goals and started at the bottom pairs with an older hull and Boyd devereaux ...

though he didn’t light up stats to start he was always a good two way guy and became easily one of the best all time , What does becoming a pt per game player till gusevs age have to do with anything ? Cause he did it in the khl he’s gonna come here and do it at the same age as datsyuk?dont know what that has to do with anything 

well exclude away it’s not my fault two guys have come down to the nhl and had good careers, not everyone is cut out to succeed , nhl is the best league in the world 

a few who have tried? Whatever the numbers are 2 guys have made it basically so can’t be great odds ... 50/50 lol ya I’m sure there’s only been 6 guys in the khl that came here to try and gusev will be the third to succeed haha

anyways im gusev’d out 

Hes going to sign with Vegas so all this crap is a waste of time 

 

 

34 minutes ago, brett said:

whats the hype over gusev? 26 and hasnt played a single nhl game

if your going to give up s*** for him you shouldve thrown it at kadri at least he has 2 30 goal years 

really dont need another play maker. if thats the case bring back datsyuk for a mil

teams not going anywhere havent upgraded defense at all and thats the biggest problem. signing ericsson 2.0 doesnt help any. i wouldve kept kronwall

i guess no one too excited about filppula since he didnt even get his own thread haha

idk i expected one big name just to keep fans interested.

Run and don’t start , you’ll never be left alone haha 

19 minutes ago, Dabura said:

It cost Colorado a lot to acquire Kadri. It wouldn't cost nearly as much to acquire Gusev. If we're talking a non-1st or taking on David Clarkson's contract, that's a low-risk, high-reward addition.

I'm 100% down with adding a good young top-six scoring winger on a cheapish two-year deal. Contrary to what anyone says, we're not especially deep at the wing positions.

I think we can all agree Colorado are f***en mental for what they did 

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6 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I think we can all agree Colorado are f***en mental for what they did 

Too early to say, I think. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but Kadri really is a pretty good shutdown 2C. I dunno that they have any immediate replacements for Barrie, but they do have at least a couple of guys who are roughly similar players (i.e. smallish, o-minded) and either of them could conceivably be as good as 2018-19 Barrie as early as 2019-2020.

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15 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Too early to say, I think. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but Kadri really is a pretty good shutdown 2C. I dunno that they have any immediate replacements for Barrie, but they do have at least a couple of guys who are roughly similar players (i.e. smallish, o-minded) and either of them could conceivably be as good as 2018-19 Barrie as early as 2019-2020.

Pretty good shutdown c sure but who won’t be that much more ahead of kerfoot in points and depending who know who kerfoot plays with he might be real close + a #1 dman who are very hard to come by for teams AND you eat off 50% off the contract? That sounds very high to me , if they let a team lock up barrie longterm they’d have gotten back a hefty return

anyways it is what it is , think the leafs got a steal as much as I hate to say it 

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I'll just drop this here...

Panarin KHL career scoring rate: 0.68 ppg
Dadonov KHL career scoring rate: 0.69 ppg
Gusev KHL career scoring rate: 0.84 ppg
Radulov KHL career scoring rate: 1.24 ppg

Notes: Radulov didn't come up in the KHL so he doesn't have years where he was young and undeveloped holding his scoring rate back. To adjust for that here is there KHL scoring rates after turning 23 years of age (the age Dadonov returned to the KHL):

Dadonov: 0.82 ppg
Panarin: 1.14 ppg
Gusev: 1.21 ppg
Radulov: 1.30 ppg

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36 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Pretty good shutdown c sure but who won’t be that much more ahead of kerfoot in points and depending who know who kerfoot plays with he might be real close + a #1 dman who are very hard to come by for teams AND you eat off 50% off the contract? That sounds very high to me , if they let a team lock up barrie longterm they’d have gotten back a hefty return

anyways it is what it is , think the leafs got a steal as much as I hate to say it 

Oh, it was definitely a high price to pay. I guess I'm just in the minority in thinking they had a clear need for a proven top-six two-way pivot in that 2C role. That top line can role over people in the regular season, but they need some Ryan O'Reilly-esque defensive mettle behind them if they want to do some damage in the playoffs.

I wonder if the Avs and Barrie had simply soured on each other. Feels like Barrie had been on the trade block for six years.

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35 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Oh, it was definitely a high price to pay. I guess I'm just in the minority in thinking they had a clear need for a proven top-six two-way pivot in that 2C role. That top line can role over people in the regular season, but they need some Ryan O'Reilly-esque defensive mettle behind them if they want to do some damage in the playoffs.

I wonder if the Avs and Barrie had simply soured on each other. Feels like Barrie had been on the trade block for six years.

I’ve actually heard people say he might be the 3c in Colorado cause they think really high oh of jost and think he’s ready for 2c, probably a load of bs , just think that was a steep price to pay for kadri if I had to guess Toronto didn’t wanna do kadri for barrie one for one and asked for kerfoot since barrie will likely walk in a year but if I was Colorado I wouldn’t give a s*** and look elsewhere , I’m sure there was some good options they could have done without giving up both assets + 50% off barrie , Anyways it’s over now 

i just think like you said Colorado has byram now + makar who’s probably ready , the d core is solid for the future I’d just have been Hesitant to move 2 good assets + salary paid off on barrie for kadri alone but I’m not joe sakic 

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So with the Ceci and Kerfoot signings, the Leafs now have approximately $4.5M plus $5.3M (LTIR Horton) in cap space... They traded Marleau and Zaitsev, without having to retain any salary on either contract, as well as Kadri, while picking up Barrie at 50% salary... If they can get Marner signed for around $9.5M, they will be able to squeeze in under the salary cap, while keeping everyone on their current roster...

F***!

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25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Is Dubas trying to 'limit' how much $$$ Marner gets by signing others before him?

I understand the need to add some depth to their roster (especially on D), but after everything is said, and done - will Dubas even have $9 million to offer?

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7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So with the Ceci and Kerfoot signings, the Leafs now have approximately $4.5M plus $5.3M (LTIR Horton) in cap space... They traded Marleau and Zaitsev, without having to retain any salary on either contract, as well as Kadri, while picking up Barrie at 50% salary... If they can get Marner signed for around $9.5M, they will be able to squeeze in under the salary cap, while keeping everyone on their current roster...

F***!

Alex - I'll take an offer sheet for $10.5 million...

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8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So with the Ceci and Kerfoot signings, the Leafs now have approximately $4.5M plus $5.3M (LTIR Horton) in cap space... They traded Marleau and Zaitsev, without having to retain any salary on either contract, as well as Kadri, while picking up Barrie at 50% salary... If they can get Marner signed for around $9.5M, they will be able to squeeze in under the salary cap, while keeping everyone on their current roster...

F***!

Rivers Cuomo of Hockey is doing a pretty good job for the Leafs right now. Credit where it's due. 

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