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WorkingOvertime

Cole suspended three games

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this little ***** deserve 4 games, 3 for Abs and one for cheap shot cross checking Dats well after the whistle.

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I love the new video explanations. It's good to hear whether it was intentional or not, and what the other player had to say about it, as well as being provided with the reasoning.

Even if you disagree, at least you know specifically what it is that you're disagreeing with.

I'm cool with this one.

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If that is suspension worthy, then Datsyuk should have been suspended for his targeted hit to the head on Jackman.

Personally, I don't think either are suspension worthy on their own...but if Shanny deemed Cole's hit suspension worthy, then so was Datsyuk's. Both were shoulders that targeted the head. End of story.

Both Cole and Datsyuk's hits will never be taken out of the game. The game is far too fast and it is a rough, contact sport. These kinds of hits will always happen in the heat of the moment during play as players move at the last second when a check is coming and a shoulder hits a head.

The only way these hits can be taken out of the game is if they slow the game down by allowing clutching and grabbing, bring back the two line offsides pass, etc.

I understand the need to protect players from concussions, but I can't see these hits going away even with suspensions looming, because they aren't preventable with how the game is played now.

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If that is suspension worthy, then Datsyuk should have been suspended for his targeted hit to the head on Jackman.

Personally, I don't think either are suspension worthy on their own...but if Shanny deemed Cole's hit suspension worthy, then so was Datsyuk's. Both were shoulders that targeted the head. End of story.

You heard it boys, end of story.

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If that is suspension worthy, then Datsyuk should have been suspended for his targeted hit to the head on Jackman.

Personally, I don't think either are suspension worthy on their own...but if Shanny deemed Cole's hit suspension worthy, then so was Datsyuk's. Both were shoulders that targeted the head. End of story.

Both Cole and Datsyuk's hits will never be taken out of the game. The game is far too fast and it is a rough, contact sport. These kinds of hits will always happen in the heat of the moment during play as players move at the last second when a check is coming and a shoulder hits a head.

The only way these hits can be taken out of the game is if they slow the game down by allowing clutching and grabbing, bring back the two line offsides pass, etc.

I understand the need to protect players from concussions, but I can't see these hits going away even with suspensions looming, because they aren't preventable with how the game is played now.

No.

Dats got both the head and the body. Cole did not. This is a very important detail when supplemental disciple is applied. The Dats play is a 2 min minor (much like the Jackman cross-checks before the hit), and the Cole play is a suspension. Watch the NHL videos on suspendable/non-suspendable hits and you will see this differentiation.

Edited by WorkingOvertime

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Jackman had his head down, end of story.

esteef

Abdelkader had his head down as well.

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Abdelkader had his head down as well.

Yes but the hit on Abby the head was the principal (and pretty much only) point of contact.

I think that's the biggest difference resulting in the suspension. Though honestly 3 games seems a bit stiff. That's more like the standard Shanny was using in the preseason and early season. I was expecting 1-2 games.

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Harold is correct - difference between the two hits is Cole hit the head and the head only; Pavel hit Jackman from the chest through to the head. During the game I thought Datsyuk should have received a penalty, but having re-watched the video over and over again, it was a clean hit. I don't see how the refs made that determination during the game, though. It looked like it was a hit to the head from the original televised angle.

3 games is 1 too many for Cole.

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Harold is correct - difference between the two hits is Cole hit the head and the head only; Pavel hit Jackman from the chest through to the head. During the game I thought Datsyuk should have received a penalty, but having re-watched the video over and over again, it was a clean hit. I don't see how the refs made that determination during the game, though. It looked like it was a hit to the head from the original televised angle.

3 games is 1 too many for Cole.

Yea but comparing the smith hit/suspension....not sure i agree that it was 1 to many. I think it was just right. Cole should have went a little lower and we wouldn't be having this thread. Abby didn't try and duck out of the way or anything so we can;t say that he moved into it. cole had plenty of time to hit lower.

Edited by hillbillywingsfan

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No.

Dats got both the head and the body. Cole did not. This is a very important detail when supplemental disciple is applied. The Dats play is a 2 min minor (much like the Jackman cross-checks before the hit), and the Cole play is a suspension. Watch the NHL videos on suspendable/non-suspendable hits and you will see this differentiation.

According to Cole, he had Abdelkader lined up but Abdelkader moved at the last moment, exposing only his head to the check.

Those are Cole's words...and the replays back that up as it looks like Abdelkader tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him.

That should also be an important detail when discipline is applied. Which brings me back to my statement of the game being too fast to eliminate those types of hits, which is the goal by using suspensions against players who commit those hits. Players need to be aware of where they are on the ice. Abdelkader had his head down as he received a pass from behind in the neutral zone. He has to expect a hit there, like Shanny said. That's a suicide pass.

But whatever, I don't have a problem Cole being suspended as it was a hit to the head and that is the rule...I do have an issue with the number of games. Three seems excessive based on other suspensions this year for the same amount of games or less.

And until there is the same standard for suspensions on star players as there is for lesser known players, the system is severely flawed. The fact it was Datsyuk (annual Lady Byng candidate and superstar player) that threw the hit had a lot to do with him not getting a penalty and not getting a suspension. If Jackman hits Datsyuk like that, he gets a penalty and probably suspended.

And don't tell me that an elbow or shoulder to the head is ok as long as you get the body too. That's simply not the case. If the head targeted and the principal point of contact, it doesn't matter if contact with the body is made. Datsyuk lunged up into Jackman's face, hitting his head with his shoulder. I fail to see how Jackman's head wasn't targeted on that play. The Detroit announcers even said he threw a shoulder to his head.

Then how did Cole miss HIS ENTIRE BODY?

He had his head down, but picks up Cole at the last second as he tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him. That's how it looks to me.

If not, what was he trying to do with the puck if he never saw Cole?

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If Cole doesn't stick out his arm to clip Abdelkader so he doesn't get by, then he never does hit his head.

Obviously Cole isn't going to mention that detail.

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According to Cole, he had Abdelkader lined up but Abdelkader moved at the last moment, exposing only his head to the check.

Those are Cole's words...and the replays back that up as it looks like Abdelkader tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him.

That should also be an important detail when discipline is applied. Which brings me back to my statement of the game being too fast to eliminate those types of hits, which is the goal by using suspensions against players who commit those hits. Players need to be aware of where they are on the ice. Abdelkader had his head down as he received a pass from behind in the neutral zone. He has to expect a hit there, like Shanny said. That's a suicide pass.

What do you expect cole to say? Of course he's going to say Abby moved his head at the last sec...but if you watch the reply..without blues bias you will see he doesn't move his head at all. far as abby knowing he will get hit by going in the middle? im sure he did..but not hit to the head like he got. cole had all the time in the world to go low.

But whatever, I don't have a problem Cole being suspended as it was a hit to the head and that is the rule...I do have an issue with the number of games. Three seems excessive based on other suspensions this year for the same amount of games or less.

brendan smith got a total of 8 games at the start of the season for us with a similar hit. so 3 games seems a tad much but fair.

And until there is the same standard for suspensions on star players as there is for lesser known players, the system is severely flawed. The fact it was Datsyuk (annual Lady Byng candidate and superstar player) that threw the hit had a lot to do with him not getting a penalty and not getting a suspension. If Jackman hits Datsyuk like that, he gets a penalty and probably suspended.

How many crosschecks does dats have to take before one is called? Or are you one of the blues fans that missed all of those?

And don't tell me that an elbow or shoulder to the head is ok as long as you get the body too. That's simply not the case. If the head targeted and the principal point of contact, it doesn't matter if contact with the body is made. Datsyuk lunged up into Jackman's face, hitting his head with his shoulder. I fail to see how Jackman's head wasn't targeted on that play. The Detroit announcers even said he threw a shoulder to his head.

Thats the whole "primary point of contact" which in coles hit the head was. In dats hit the body was. It was very clear in both hits.

He had his head down, but picks up Cole at the last second as he tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him. That's how it looks to me.

If not, what was he trying to do with the puck if he never saw Cole?

If abby was trying to slip past cole then there would have been movement on abby's part which there was not. Abby may have seen him at the last millisecond but still doesn't justify the hit to the head.

Edited by hillbillywingsfan
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According to Cole, he had Abdelkader lined up but Abdelkader moved at the last moment, exposing only his head to the check.

Those are Cole's words...and the replays back that up as it looks like Abdelkader tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him.

That should also be an important detail when discipline is applied. Which brings me back to my statement of the game being too fast to eliminate those types of hits, which is the goal by using suspensions against players who commit those hits. Players need to be aware of where they are on the ice. Abdelkader had his head down as he received a pass from behind in the neutral zone. He has to expect a hit there, like Shanny said. That's a suicide pass.

But whatever, I don't have a problem Cole being suspended as it was a hit to the head and that is the rule...I do have an issue with the number of games. Three seems excessive based on other suspensions this year for the same amount of games or less.

And until there is the same standard for suspensions on star players as there is for lesser known players, the system is severely flawed. The fact it was Datsyuk (annual Lady Byng candidate and superstar player) that threw the hit had a lot to do with him not getting a penalty and not getting a suspension. If Jackman hits Datsyuk like that, he gets a penalty and probably suspended.

And don't tell me that an elbow or shoulder to the head is ok as long as you get the body too. That's simply not the case. If the head targeted and the principal point of contact, it doesn't matter if contact with the body is made. Datsyuk lunged up into Jackman's face, hitting his head with his shoulder. I fail to see how Jackman's head wasn't targeted on that play. The Detroit announcers even said he threw a shoulder to his head.

He had his head down, but picks up Cole at the last second as he tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him. That's how it looks to me.

If not, what was he trying to do with the puck if he never saw Cole?

Did you watch the video in the first post? Most of your points are addressed by the person in charge of discipline for the NHL. Cole made a rookie mistake. He needed to being the check earlier in order to catch Abdelkader's body. However, Cole overskates the check and has to throw himself into Abdelkader. If you watch the video, you can see that the position of Abdelkader's head does not change significantly. Cole likely said that because he perceived Abdelkader was coming at a different angle. As a result, Cole made contact (almost) solely with the head. It is a suicide pass, but that does not mean it is any more legal to have the head as the principal point of contact.

If you have watched the NHL videos, you will see that a check with head contact is legal is the body is the principal point of contact. Cole obviously did not get much (if any) of Abdelkader's body. That is what the NHL believes and that determines suspensions. Essentially, a hit to the head is allowed as long as the majority of the hit occurs to the body (assuming no elbows, not vulnerable position, etc.).

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According to Cole, he had Abdelkader lined up but Abdelkader moved at the last moment, exposing only his head to the check.

Those are Cole's words...and the replays back that up as it looks like Abdelkader tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him.

That should also be an important detail when discipline is applied. Which brings me back to my statement of the game being too fast to eliminate those types of hits, which is the goal by using suspensions against players who commit those hits. Players need to be aware of where they are on the ice. Abdelkader had his head down as he received a pass from behind in the neutral zone. He has to expect a hit there, like Shanny said. That's a suicide pass.

But whatever, I don't have a problem Cole being suspended as it was a hit to the head and that is the rule...I do have an issue with the number of games. Three seems excessive based on other suspensions this year for the same amount of games or less.

And until there is the same standard for suspensions on star players as there is for lesser known players, the system is severely flawed. The fact it was Datsyuk (annual Lady Byng candidate and superstar player) that threw the hit had a lot to do with him not getting a penalty and not getting a suspension. If Jackman hits Datsyuk like that, he gets a penalty and probably suspended.

And don't tell me that an elbow or shoulder to the head is ok as long as you get the body too. That's simply not the case. If the head targeted and the principal point of contact, it doesn't matter if contact with the body is made. Datsyuk lunged up into Jackman's face, hitting his head with his shoulder. I fail to see how Jackman's head wasn't targeted on that play. The Detroit announcers even said he threw a shoulder to his head.

He had his head down, but picks up Cole at the last second as he tries to slide the puck by Cole and slip by him. That's how it looks to me.

If not, what was he trying to do with the puck if he never saw Cole?

The replays don't back that up.

In Shanny's explanation he clearly says and shows on the replay that Abby's body and head didn't make any significant change in direction or speed just before the hit. Cole may not have had the opportunity to see the replay before he spoke and at the speed at which it happens I can't expect him to know exactly how it played out. You're also omitting the part where Shanny says a player has to expect a good hard body check. Then goes on to say they should not have to expect a deliberate a reckless blow to the head.

With the direction Cole is moving, it's the textbook hit the league is trying to remove. If you're going to try a risky hit like that, the responsibility is on the player making the hit to contact the body.

I think the suspension was a little long given Shanny's current standard (at the beginning of the season this would've been in line), but his explanation as to why Cole was suspended is pretty clear.

As for a shoulder to the head being okay as long as you get the body, actually, that is the case, especially on north-south hits. The head can't just be targeted or the principal point of contact.

NHL rules video on illegal checks to the head

About 2:53 into the video when they start talking about legal hits, they specifically show a legal shoulder check to the head. In the video shown it looks like the elbow contacts the head as well, but it's tucked and the player's head was down, much like Datsyuk's hit, which is why it was legal.

Datsyuk's hit looked worse than it was because his shoulder did contact Jackman's head, and then Jackman acted like a little ***** about it.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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The replays don't back that up.

In Shanny's explanation he clearly says and shows on the replay that Abby's body and head didn't make any significant change in direction or speed just before the hit. Cole may not have had the opportunity to see the replay before he spoke and at the speed at which it happens I can't expect him to know exactly how it played out. You're also omitting the part where Shanny says a player has to expect a good hard body check. Then goes on to say they should not have to expect a deliberate a reckless blow to the head.

With the direction Cole is moving, it's the textbook hit the league is trying to remove. If you're going to try a risky hit like that, the responsibility is on the player making the hit to contact the body.

I think the suspension was a little long given Shanny's current standard (at the beginning of the season this would've been in line), but his explanation as to why Cole was suspended is pretty clear.

As for a shoulder to the head being okay as long as you get the body, actually, that is the case, especially on north-south hits. The head can't just be targeted or the principal point of contact.

NHL rules video on illegal checks to the head

About 2:53 into the video when they start talking about legal hits, they specifically show a legal shoulder check to the head. In the video shown it looks like the elbow contacts the head as well, but it's tucked and the player's head was down, much like Datsyuk's hit, which is why it was legal.

Datsyuk's hit looked worse than it was because his shoulder did contact Jackman's head, and then Jackman acted like a little ***** about it.

I was like..yup this is all Harold..good post like always..then I got to the bold part and was like...yup.. that's why he's a cool dude. hahaha

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