76 replies to this topic

[LeftWinger]

http://www.nhlpa.com/news/media-releases/details/2012/01/07/statement-from-nhlpa-executive-director-don-fehr-regarding-proposed-realignment

NHLPA statement.

Ok, fine, but what do you suggest then NHLPA? Keep Winnipeg in the East and Detroit and Columbus in the West and instead of evening out the travel schedule for all, lets just continue to punish a few teams that travel more than any other team in the league! I am waitng PA, let's see your proposal, if you didn't like the NHL's, then show us yours....simple. Unless you have something better, you are taking away from the fans who I do believe were 99.99999% on board with seeing every team in the league for the first time in a long long time.

I'd like to know who the whiny millionaire players who were concerned about their personal travel were? You play for the fans and the team, the more fans you make happy, the more money you get....cry me a river.

I didn't like the new realignment anyway, so it doesn't bother me the PA rejected it. The owners liked it because it meant they could raise ticket prices even more, with more out of Conference "elite games".


I'd like to see the PA crush the Owners this time, so Bettman is out the door. Time for some new blood. America has had 3 Presidents since Bettman took over. Imagine how sick of Clinton we'd be if he was still around?

Not as sick as if Bush were still around or if Obama gets re-elected...

Also, why doesn't the NHL just do what my place of business did when they had issues with the Union? They just did what they wanted and then dealt with the grievances later (which they won most of the time anyhow) and now I don't have a Union as these acts eventually broke the Union and now they just do what they want...Use the Dave Bing tactics.

Edited by LeftWinger, 07 January 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[Hockeytown0001]

Here's an MLive article on the topic. Devellano is not happy with the union.
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_jimmy_devellano_disg.html

This quote is interesting.

And rightfully so.

[Ram]

Agree with those who think this is just terrible for the league in general. No news is good news for the NHL as far as I'm concerned and when this is the only thing that will be mentioned hockey wise on a national sports perspective, it looks terrible and may just solidify the league as still behind others when they had the opportunity to become better.

Disagree with those who are solely blaming Bettman. I hate that man just as much as you, but please tell me that others did not have their hand in this. Bettman is to blame but now the PA dropped the ball too.

I forget the guy's name, but isn't the NHLPA president the former one who f'ed the MLB real hard a few years ago?

This just blows.

[hockey23]

Tweet from Mirtle...

Wings' NHLPA rep Nik Kronwall says unfairness of playoff format was a big part of what he didn't like about the proposed realignment.

I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

[LeftWinger]

Tweet from Mirtle...


I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

Either add two teams or get rid of two teams, neither of which is gonna happen so they best come up with something better because I for one am tired of not seeing all the teams in the NHL and all the late night games and playoffs I as a fan have to endure...

[LeftWinger]

Someone, somewhere posted this realignment suggestion which to me and most of the world would make sense, except for Columbus who would be stuck in the West:

Western Conference:

Vancouver
LA
Phoenix
SJ
Anaheim


Edmonton
Calgary
Colorado
Winnipeg
Dallas


Minnesota
Chicago
Nashville
St. Louis
Columbus

Eastern Conference

Detroit
Toronto
Montreal
Ottawa
Buffalo


Philly
NJ
Boston
NYR
NYI


Pittsburgh
Washington
Carolina
Tampa
Florida

[chrisdetroit]

Tweet from Mirtle...


I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

Fair enough. So what is this "better way"? Anybody can complain. Let's here solutions.

I think a lot of people are also forgetting a couple of things. With Winnipeg in the Southeast, that means that Florida, Tampa, Washington and Carolina have to travel all the way to Winnipeg again next year 3 TIMES each. Winnipeg also has to travel all the way to Tampa, Florida, Washington and Carolina 3 TIMES EACH.

To not fix that alone is just plain stupid.

Secondly, it's highly unlikely that the Coyotes will be in Phoenix next year since the taxpayers are not going to kick in more money for another year. So when the Coyotes move to Hamilton or Quebec City, they will have to travel all the way from Ontario to the West Coast to play San Jose, LA, and Anaheim as well to Dallas 3 TIMES for each. This is insane. With the proposed realignment, moving a team was much easier.

Good idea. Veto the realignment. DUH!

[haroldsnepsts]

Agree with those who think this is just terrible for the league in general. No news is good news for the NHL as far as I'm concerned and when this is the only thing that will be mentioned hockey wise on a national sports perspective, it looks terrible and may just solidify the league as still behind others when they had the opportunity to become better.

Disagree with those who are solely blaming Bettman. I hate that man just as much as you, but please tell me that others did not have their hand in this. Bettman is to blame but now the PA dropped the ball too.

I forget the guy's name, but isn't the NHLPA president the former one who f'ed the MLB real hard a few years ago?

This just blows.

It is definitely not all Bettman's fault. I just wanted to point out that it's not the NHLPA's fault either. The league didn't involve them until very late in the game, so now they're in the position of holding things up. It's just s***ty all around. From day one this should've been a discussion with the owners, league, AND PLAYERS. It's not rocket science to figure out that you need to include the people fans actually pay to go see.

If there is another lockout though, I put almost all the blame on Bettman. Like I said before, his divisive condescending tone makes negotiations hostile from the get go. It'd be nice to have a commissioner who didn't view the players union as the enemy.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 07 January 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[chrisdetroit]

Someone, somewhere posted this realignment suggestion which to me and most of the world would make sense, except for Columbus who would be stuck in the West:

Western Conference:

Vancouver
LA
Phoenix
SJ
Anaheim


Edmonton
Calgary
Colorado
Winnipeg
Dallas


Minnesota
Chicago
Nashville
St. Louis
Columbus

Eastern Conference

Detroit
Toronto
Montreal
Ottawa
Buffalo


Philly
NJ
Boston
NYR
NYI


Pittsburgh
Washington
Carolina
Tampa
Florida

Like all proposals, this has faults.

You are splitting Philly and Pittsburgh which was one of the early objections to many of the plans.

What happens when the Coyotes move to an eastern city (Quebec or Hamilton)? The Bettman proposal made it easier to move a team since the "conferences" were already unbalance with 7 or 8 teams,

[haroldsnepsts]

<snip>

Also, why doesn't the NHL just do what my place of business did when they had issues with the Union? They just did what they wanted and then dealt with the grievances later (which they won most of the time anyhow) and now I don't have a Union as these acts eventually broke the Union and now they just do what they want...Use the Dave Bing tactics.

It's a very different situation when you're dealing with a union that represents elite entertainers. Hockey is entertainment and fans pay to go see the best in the world play against one another. It's not the same as most other unions where the union employee is much easier to replace with a scab.

There's not a lot of guys out there like Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, Thomas, etc. And I think it's safe to say fans won't pay as much to pay a bunch of AHL or college players, so the business model is affected. The Screen Actors Guild is probably a more appropriate union. Studios sure as hell don't want to pay them as much as they do, but the reality is the big names put people in the seats.

Here's a pretty good take on it, from ESPN of all places.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7434633/nhlpa-refusal-approve-new-alignment-first-collective-bargaining-salvo

The players' association has always believed the "partnership" that saw the end of the lockout in the summer of 2005 has been on many levels a farce. The players feel they have been excluded in the discussions of important issues, such as relocation and expansion. Moments after the board of governors decided on realignment last month, the players' association insisted publicly it wasn't a done deal, and the NHLPA still needed to sign off on it.

The league pooh-poohed the union's complaints.

While the league believes the union has no right to engage in the discussion on realignment, the players' association, in the absence of a mock schedule that would outline exactly how travel would be affected, has tried to push the realignment issue under the collective bargaining umbrella.

Instead, the league imposed a Friday deadline for the union's consent and the union, which insisted it was willing to keep talking on the issue, pulled the plug.

The union made huge concessions in the new CBA, and it does seem like since then instead of the league treating them like a partner, it's attitude is "you're our ***** now." The thing Bettman apparently forgets is that fans boo his weasel ass every time he's in public. They cheer for the players, not the organization of the NHL.

The bolded section is the key point. Even if the player's union has no legal right to engage in the discussion, as a practical matter and heading into a new CBA it's idiotic not to include thef****** players in talks about realigning their teams!

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 07 January 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[hockey23]

Fair enough. So what is this "better way"? Anybody can complain. Let's here solutions.

I think a lot of people are also forgetting a couple of things. With Winnipeg in the Southeast, that means that Florida, Tampa, Washington and Carolina have to travel all the way to Winnipeg again next year 3 TIMES each. Winnipeg also has to travel all the way to Tampa, Florida, Washington and Carolina 3 TIMES EACH.

To not fix that alone is just plain stupid.

Secondly, it's highly unlikely that the Coyotes will be in Phoenix next year since the taxpayers are not going to kick in more money for another year. So when the Coyotes move to Hamilton or Quebec City, they will have to travel all the way from Ontario to the West Coast to play San Jose, LA, and Anaheim as well to Dallas 3 TIMES for each. This is insane. With the proposed realignment, moving a team was much easier.

Good idea. Veto the realignment. DUH!

I think they should keep the 2 conference setup. I'd be fine with keeping the 4 proposed divisions, but just move Detroit or Columbus to one of the eastern divisions so each conference would have 15 teams. Then just take the top 8 teams from each conference like they do now. They could keep the proposed scheduling as well where everyone plays everyone outside their division in a home and home and the rest of the games are divisional games.

[LeftWinger]

Like all proposals, this has faults.

You are splitting Philly and Pittsburgh which was one of the early objections to many of the plans.

What happens when the Coyotes move to an eastern city (Quebec or Hamilton)? The Bettman proposal made it easier to move a team since the "conferences" were already unbalance with 7 or 8 teams,

Ya, don't get me wrong, I wanted the Bettman realignment and wish they had approved it, but something has to change, Winnipeg cannot stay in the Eastern Conference so there has to be a solution somewhere...

[LeftWinger]

It's a very different situation when you're dealing with a union that represents elite entertainers. Hockey is entertainment and fans pay to go see the best in the world play against one another. It's not the same as most other unions where the union employee is much easier to replace with a scab.

There's not a lot of guys out there like Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, Thomas, etc. And I think it's safe to say fans won't pay as much to pay a bunch of AHL or college players, so the business model is affected. The Screen Actors Guild is probably a more appropriate union. Studios sure as hell don't want to pay them as much as they do, but the reality is the big names put people in the seats.

Here's a pretty good take on it, from ESPN of all places.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7434633/nhlpa-refusal-approve-new-alignment-first-collective-bargaining-salvo



The union made huge concessions in the new CBA, and it does seem like since then instead of the league treating them like a partner, it's attitude is "you're our ***** now." The thing Bettman apparently forgets is that fans boo his weasel ass every time he's in public. They cheer for the players, not the organization of the NHL.

The bolded section is the key point. Even if the player's union has no legal right to engage in the discussion, as a practical matter and heading into a new CBA it's idiotic not to include thef****** players in talks about realigning their teams!

Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE Union supporter and wish people like Dave Bing didn't exist. I wish I was still in a Union at work and I respect the rights of all workers that are represented. I just want to see what the PA has to propose after this rejection. Usually when a Union rejects a contract, for example, they have a counter offer. I am all for something that is more equal for a playoff format, but let's see it then. What can be done with 30 teams to make it even? I am not bashing Union's, just want to know what the PA has as a counter offer...

[commadore183]

This all wouldn't have happened if the NHL did the right thing and just killed ATL. No realignment needed, especially if PHX were to go bankrupt. There isn't a need for 30 teams when many of them are having a hard time bringing money in. Plus, contraction would help the NHL by deepening the talent pool. No Winnipeg, no Phoenix, no problem.

[cusimano_brothers]

Now Bettman has to do what he should have done from the start: make it part of the agenda during negotiations on the next CBA. He's so anti-union it is sickening.

[55fan]

The travel trouble will never be fully addressed. The teams are in cities that are not evenly grouped, nor are they equidistant from each other. Someone will always have the short end of the stick.

As for the playoffs, why not have the divisions form 2 conferences (15 teams per), have one or two champs per division, and use the wildcard system to fill in the blanks? In the long run, it would make less difference than the loser point.

[SidAbelsSon]

Split the league into 2 Conferences. North and South. That way all teams play within conference across all time zones, eliminating travel arguments.

[commadore183]

Split the league into 2 Conferences. North and South. That way all teams play within conference across all time zones, eliminating travel arguments.

I'm actually going with an NFL type of conferences, with equal numbers of East/West teams in each conference. But of course, if I had my way, there would be no Winnipeg, no Phoenix, just 28 teams, deeper talent pool, and no worrying about who goes where because we know the NHL will NEVER send the Wings to the East so long as the West teams need the money.

[LeftWinger]

Ok, this is gonna get radical, and of course it won't happen but follow me for a minute or 20.

Three Conferences, Two Division in each, Ten teams in each. You could make the schedule 76 games, which wold give you a home and home out of your conference and 4 games against your conference. Within the conference the top 5 point getter's are in the playoff's, then you take the next four teams with the next highest point total's and play three games (much like the Olympics minus the Bronze Medal game) to determine the 16th spot in the playoffs. The teams won't be playing any more games and it won't delay the playoffs because you have shortened the season by 6 games. They would be sorted by points of course. Then once the top 16 teams are determined, seed them 1 thru 16 with 1 playing 16, etc... (no matter which Conference you are in) and then after every playoff round, reseed them accordingly. If you wanted to award the two division winners with a playoff spot (which I think is dumb) that is fine, but having four teams battle it out for the final playoff spot would generate extreme excitement among the fans much like when the Rangers and Flyers played that 82nd game to see who went. Along with much competition between the rest of the league to battle for that 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th regular season position in order to try to attain that 16th playoff spot. Of course in this one game playoff among these 4 teams, they would be seeded 16-19 with 16 playing 19, etc...

Now for the Re-alignment part:

Eastern Conference:

Division A (for lack of a better name right now):

Boston
Islanders
Rangers
Senators
Canadiens

Division B:

Devils
Capitals
Hurricanes
Lightning
Panthers

Central Conference:

Division A:

Maple Leafs
Sabres
Flyers
Penguins
Red Wings

Division B:

Blue Jackets
Predators
Blues
Wild
Blackhawks

Western Conference:

Division A:

Winnipeg
Avalanche
Stars
Coyotes
Oilers

Division B:

Flames
Canucks
Sharks
Ducks
Kings

...I know it splits up Calgary and Edmonton as a division rival, but remember you are playing your own CONFERENCE 4 times, the division just sorts it out a bit better, you could actually eliminate the division all together if it would help. (much like they did with the 4 conference format) I realize with the two games against other conferences it still poses a East coast team travel issue (babies) but the playoff issue is all but taken care of with half of the teams in each conference making the playoffs, then having an exciting weekend of three games of hockey among four teams (16-19) to determine that last playoff spot. Then just group them all together 1-16 and you will get the absolute best playoff's and the two best teams, regardless of their conference will meet for The Stanley Cup...

Radical, I know, but what else can we do?

[VM1138]

You know, I don't see what's so unfair about having unbalanced conferences. Those lower Eastern teams won't go far so so what if they get a round of playoff revenue?

Not to mention that Phoenix will be moving east and basically balance out the old conferences. As far as travel goes, that was about as close to perfect as they were going to get. The NHLPA won't come up with anything better. You can only go so far in fairness in sports. There are simply some inherent disadvantages that everyone has to deal with.