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redwingfan19

Cherry rips Holland

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Exactly who was theirs in 2008? Running from hockeyfights.com...

Downey? Won 7 of 10, but several in close decisions. Lilja? Three, all draws. Drake? Lost 3 of five. McCarty? Zero fighting majors.

you don't have to win them all, just be willing to go. Downey, Lilja, Drake, McCarty. Any one of who would drop the gloves at the first run at Datsyuk or Lidstrom. We don't have a regular player like that now. And when our star players are getting beat on in the regular season, it takes it's toll on their bodies and they are hurting in the playoffs. If a Aaron Downey was there to protect them in the regular season, they are that less hurting come playoffs.

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I find sherrie's statement funny considering holland is the best gm in the league and Burke may be the worst...

I do think they should invest in a tough guy who they can throw in for a shift or 2 per game to rough people up.

I recently watched the highlights of every wings game in the 08 playoffs and I noticed that dallas drake had 2-3 HUGE hits per series. They don't necessarily need a fighter, just a big hitter would be fine

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you don't have to win them all, just be willing to go. Downey, Lilja, Drake, McCarty. Any one of who would drop the gloves at the first run at Datsyuk or Lidstrom. We don't have a regular player like that now. And when our star players are getting beat on in the regular season, it takes it's toll on their bodies and they are hurting in the playoffs. If a Aaron Downey was there to protect them in the regular season, they are that less hurting come playoffs.

Which cheap shots have caused the Wings to be "hurting" in the playoffs?

You guys are looking for grit in the wrong places. The team as a whole needs to allow for a grittier offensive mindset because they do not have the talent they had on that cup winning team. They have to be able to grind out wins and push back as much as they get pushed if they want to make a serious run at the cup.

The team's problems at grit would be pretty much non-existent if they could do that. Right now they can't. Someone to keep the flies off isn't a be all end all for the success of this hockey team, just like it wasn't in 2008. That team was talented, but could crash and bang when it needed to.

Too bad, indeed. I have tried reasonable discourse, multiple times on this board. All it gets me is hyperbole thrown back, strawmen, and outright personal attacks. So, I fall back on humor.

Two wrongs don't make a right, pal.

Edited by Doc Holliday

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Video up

Well, after watching that, I have to say this was blown out of proportion by someone here. He wasn't mocking Holland, he just said, hey, you are gonna have to go into places like Boston and if you don't have someone who is willing to drop em and defend your teammates, then you aren't gonna win.

Boston, San Jose they are going to bounce you around again and again. I agree with Cherry. Wings lack that Avery type player, Lapointe, Drake, Rouse. They don't need a Probert.

LidsFan and Hockeymom1960 like this

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Well, after watching that, I have to say this was blown out of proportion by someone here. He wasn't mocking Holland, he just said, hey, you are gonna have to go into places like Boston and if you don't have someone who is willing to drop em and defend your teammates, then you aren't gonna win.

Boston, San Jose they are going to bounce you around again and again. I agree with Cherry. Wings lack that Avery type player, Lapointe, Drake, Rouse. They don't need a Probert.

Maybe I blew it a bit out of proportion with the thread title but I thought it was a shot by Cherry to Holland and the Wings. We all know it wouldn't hurt to add some tougher players on the 4th line but it wont happen this year.

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Well, after watching that, I have to say this was blown out of proportion by someone here. He wasn't mocking Holland, he just said, hey, you are gonna have to go into places like Boston and if you don't have someone who is willing to drop em and defend your teammates, then you aren't gonna win.

Boston, San Jose they are going to bounce you around again and again. I agree with Cherry. Wings lack that Avery type player, Lapointe, Drake, Rouse. They don't need a Probert.

I don't feel like Avery belongs with Lapointe, Drake and Rouse.

Nev likes this

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After watching the video, I have to say that the OP blew it out of proportion. However, I agree with what ol' Don said. I don't know how many times we have to get bounced out of the playoffs by a team like San Jose to figure that out.

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Because Boston has such a winning record against us? I'm tired of this tough guy garbage. Last playoff run the Wings dished out more hits than the teams we played, and San Jose was a bruising team. Yeah, Boston is tough, but tough isn't what wins. A proper balance of skills wins. I'm not denigrating Boston, they're the best team right now, but in a 7 game series I like our chances still.

EDIT: Like Mick said tonight, Boston didn't win the Cup because of their physicality. They won because Vancouver couldn't score.

It's hard to score when the puck is in your end of the ice courtesy of an aggressve forecheck that involves big/fast/physical opponents whom aren't easily intimidated.

Just sayin ;)

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Well, apart from saying Probert was on the cup winning teams, and saying Downey "was there" (he wasn't), and apart from being the guy who thinks Lidstrom is no good because he doesn't hit, apart from that, I guess he has a point, that we could do with a LaPointe/McCarty/Drake type player.

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Because Boston has such a winning record against us? I'm tired of this tough guy garbage. Last playoff run the Wings dished out more hits than the teams we played, and San Jose was a bruising team. Yeah, Boston is tough, but tough isn't what wins. A proper balance of skills wins. I'm not denigrating Boston, they're the best team right now, but in a 7 game series I like our chances still.

EDIT: Like Mick said tonight, Boston didn't win the Cup because of their physicality. They won because Vancouver couldn't score.

:thumbup:

The joke in Bean Town after they won the Cup was:

"Hey, what time is it?"

"Nineteen past Luongo"

evilzyme likes this

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Colton Orr or GTFO!

esteef

We could use a guy like Colton Orr......never score a lot of goals but a real team guy who would hold other teams accountable when they constantly run our premier players or our goalie......he doesn't win every fight but he has broken a few noses around the league!!

Being a huge Helm fan I remember in 2008 when he was called up for the Cup run, he had a thing going with Brooks Orkpik......whenever Orkpik took a few liberties with young Helmer, McCarty was right there right away to make sure things went "smoothly". This is something this years team misses badly!

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I find sherrie's statement funny considering holland is the best gm in the league and Burke may be the worst...

I do think they should invest in a tough guy who they can throw in for a shift or 2 per game to rough people up.

I recently watched the highlights of every wings game in the 08 playoffs and I noticed that dallas drake had 2-3 HUGE hits per series. They don't necessarily need a fighter, just a big hitter would be fine

Exactly! That's when everybody on the ice was probably still waiting to get Kronwalled at any given time too. Add in Downey and a younger Brad Stuart and it certainly makes for much more physical looking team.

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Being a huge Helm fan I remember in 2008 when he was called up for the Cup run, he had a thing going with Brooks Orkpik......whenever Orkpik took a few liberties with young Helmer, McCarty was right there right away to make sure things went "smoothly". This is something this years team misses badly!

Funny, cos I remember Helm being taken out by Orpik in Game 6 with a knee on knee hit....

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I'll just summarize the responses for you here:

Crymson: "NO! The Wings are perfect and Holland had nice hair! They do not need a tough guy."

Konnan: "You're all just xenophobic euro-haters. They score plenty of points with 'soft-euros'."

Various: "Fighting in hockey is useless. You should just watch UFC, you don't even like hockey."

Holland: "The right deal just wasn't available, but we're confident that some players will take that next step..."

Pretty much it. :D

Anyways, in general I just kinda shrug at Don Cherry. Don't love him, don't hate him, he's just one of those guys that always has an opinion for better and for worse at times and I just kinda go okay. Sometimes he is spot on, sometimes he is way out in left field.

As for the forever talking discussion on this specific subject, do I think the team can use a guy who's main job is toughness or knuckles or dropping the gloves? Sure. Am I losing sleep over it? No. Do I think the Wings can do a better job of answering cheap shots or snowed incidents on Howard? Sure. Not losing sleep over that either though.

I like fights and toughness or whatever, but it's another part of the game, just like great goaltending or puckhandling skills/skilled goals, shut down defense, etc.

They know how to bring grit and work ethic with their current personnel, it's just a matter of if they can do it and outlast the other team for a full game consistently. If deals can be made to improve this teams via toughness/grit, I'm all for it but this team has close to the same roster than barely lost to a solid San Jose team in 7 games last season (with the welcome addition of better work ethic more consistently on 3rd/4th lines this season), with some puck luck or a few things different I like this roster's chance to at worst get to a Conference Finals as well if they can consistently bring the work effort.

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Cherry says stupid things all the time. He's fun to watch and laugh at but people shouldn't take him seriously. He hates the Wings because they have so many Europeans. He likes old time hockey when enforcers and fights were a big part of the game. They aren't anymore. The game has passed Don Cherry by.

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Exactly who was theirs in 2008? Running from hockeyfights.com...

Downey? Won 7 of 10, but several in close decisions. Lilja? Three, all draws. Drake? Lost 3 of five. McCarty? Zero fighting majors.

That's much tougher than the current team.

It's not necessarily about how many fights those guys had or won, but about setting a tempo all year for physical play and hitting. Come playoff time, the entire team was more hard working and physical because of the mindset those guys brought all year. Downey didn't play in the playoffs, but he toughened our "soft euros" up for the playoffs, and McCarty took over that role in the postseason.

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Don Cherry makes some good points at times, and then other times he sounds ridiculous. The thing that kills me is Marchand, a "Good ole Canadian kid" throws a clear cheap shot, and Cherry's like "Ah well I love him anyway". Had a Euro thrown that same hit, he would've been calling for a suspension, claiming the game is being ruined by Euros. He rants about rats taking the game over and then proclaims his man love for a piece of s*** like Marchand? Everyone knows my stance on the grit debate. I agree with Cherry there.

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i remember when the Wings won the cup in 08 and he was on ESPN doing an interview with Steve Levy where Levy was talking about how great Zetterberg and Datsyuk are and Don said how "they are alright" and Levy was just like "come on, they just won the Stanley cup!" and Don really wouldn't have any of it. Screw him.

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Wings win. That's all that matters. Sounds like insecurities from him. Wings don't need a tough man to win. FACT.

"FACT." Really? As Don Cherry said, when is the last time Detroit won without one? Admittedly, the lack of an enforcer has not been as glaring as it has been in past seasons, namely the season after we won the cup and anybody with half a brain knew teams were going to be targeting our stars. BUT! we would still be better off with one, and it would certainly make blowouts, one way or the other, a little more interesting. There are McCarty's out there, Holland just isn't drafting them.

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