258 replies to this topic

[achildr1]

I find sherrie's statement funny considering holland is the best gm in the league and Burke may be the worst...

I do think they should invest in a tough guy who they can throw in for a shift or 2 per game to rough people up.

I recently watched the highlights of every wings game in the 08 playoffs and I noticed that dallas drake had 2-3 HUGE hits per series. They don't necessarily need a fighter, just a big hitter would be fine

Exactly! That's when everybody on the ice was probably still waiting to get Kronwalled at any given time too. Add in Downey and a younger Brad Stuart and it certainly makes for much more physical looking team.

[Nev]

Being a huge Helm fan I remember in 2008 when he was called up for the Cup run, he had a thing going with Brooks Orkpik......whenever Orkpik took a few liberties with young Helmer, McCarty was right there right away to make sure things went "smoothly". This is something this years team misses badly!

Funny, cos I remember Helm being taken out by Orpik in Game 6 with a knee on knee hit....

[13dangledangle]

I may be bias but I don't know too many dudes that would scare me out there then an angry Bertuzzi.

[SouthernWingsFan]

I'll just summarize the responses for you here:

Crymson: "NO! The Wings are perfect and Holland had nice hair! They do not need a tough guy."

Konnan: "You're all just xenophobic euro-haters. They score plenty of points with 'soft-euros'."

Various: "Fighting in hockey is useless. You should just watch UFC, you don't even like hockey."

Holland: "The right deal just wasn't available, but we're confident that some players will take that next step..."

Pretty much it.

Anyways, in general I just kinda shrug at Don Cherry. Don't love him, don't hate him, he's just one of those guys that always has an opinion for better and for worse at times and I just kinda go okay. Sometimes he is spot on, sometimes he is way out in left field.

As for the forever talking discussion on this specific subject, do I think the team can use a guy who's main job is toughness or knuckles or dropping the gloves? Sure. Am I losing sleep over it? No. Do I think the Wings can do a better job of answering cheap shots or snowed incidents on Howard? Sure. Not losing sleep over that either though.

I like fights and toughness or whatever, but it's another part of the game, just like great goaltending or puckhandling skills/skilled goals, shut down defense, etc.

They know how to bring grit and work ethic with their current personnel, it's just a matter of if they can do it and outlast the other team for a full game consistently. If deals can be made to improve this teams via toughness/grit, I'm all for it but this team has close to the same roster than barely lost to a solid San Jose team in 7 games last season (with the welcome addition of better work ethic more consistently on 3rd/4th lines this season), with some puck luck or a few things different I like this roster's chance to at worst get to a Conference Finals as well if they can consistently bring the work effort.

[chrisdetroit]

Cherry says stupid things all the time. He's fun to watch and laugh at but people shouldn't take him seriously. He hates the Wings because they have so many Europeans. He likes old time hockey when enforcers and fights were a big part of the game. They aren't anymore. The game has passed Don Cherry by.

[GMRwings1983]

Exactly who was theirs in 2008? Running from hockeyfights.com...

Downey? Won 7 of 10, but several in close decisions. Lilja? Three, all draws. Drake? Lost 3 of five. McCarty? Zero fighting majors.

That's much tougher than the current team.

It's not necessarily about how many fights those guys had or won, but about setting a tempo all year for physical play and hitting. Come playoff time, the entire team was more hard working and physical because of the mindset those guys brought all year. Downey didn't play in the playoffs, but he toughened our "soft euros" up for the playoffs, and McCarty took over that role in the postseason.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Don Cherry makes some good points at times, and then other times he sounds ridiculous. The thing that kills me is Marchand, a "Good ole Canadian kid" throws a clear cheap shot, and Cherry's like "Ah well I love him anyway". Had a Euro thrown that same hit, he would've been calling for a suspension, claiming the game is being ruined by Euros. He rants about rats taking the game over and then proclaims his man love for a piece of s*** like Marchand? Everyone knows my stance on the grit debate. I agree with Cherry there.

[kylee]

i remember when the Wings won the cup in 08 and he was on ESPN doing an interview with Steve Levy where Levy was talking about how great Zetterberg and Datsyuk are and Don said how "they are alright" and Levy was just like "come on, they just won the Stanley cup!" and Don really wouldn't have any of it. Screw him.

[Hairy Lime]

Wings win. That's all that matters. Sounds like insecurities from him. Wings don't need a tough man to win. FACT.

"FACT." Really? As Don Cherry said, when is the last time Detroit won without one? Admittedly, the lack of an enforcer has not been as glaring as it has been in past seasons, namely the season after we won the cup and anybody with half a brain knew teams were going to be targeting our stars. BUT! we would still be better off with one, and it would certainly make blowouts, one way or the other, a little more interesting. There are McCarty's out there, Holland just isn't drafting them.

[Konnan511]

What has Cherry won exactly?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

What has Cherry won exactly?

Nothing. He's loud, obnoxious, and draws attention, so CBC lets him rant for ratings, basically.

[Dominator2005]

I just watched it and WOW...he is literally giving Aaron Downey credit for the Wings last cup.

Then tell me why Downey was dressed in warm-up (game 3) against Dallas?
Why Commodore is playing more (see Howard's comments)

[Hairy Lime]

Ok, just listened to it. I don't like Cherry too much, especially after he criticized Datsyuk for a perfectly clean hit a couple of seasons ago, but I have to agree with him 100 percent on this issue, mainly because I have been saying the exact same thing, ever since Holland hired his lap dog Mike Babcock. Trade for a guy like Dave Clarkson or Chris Neil, or draft one these good young tough players that also have the ability to score that every other GM is drafting, but do something to make playing against Detroit a little harder, and let other teams know that we have a guy who "can do that too". Steve Yzerman understood it, Scotty Bowman understood it, and Mike Babcock, I think, also understands it, but he's just too much of a wimp to say anything to Holland about it. Yes, he did manage to get Brad May on the roster a few seasons ago, and May did his job, but he was just too old, and besides, he didn't even play in the game against Philli??? That was head-scratching.

[Dominator2005]

Ok, just listened to it. I don't like Cherry too much, especially after he criticized Datsyuk for a perfectly clean hit a couple of seasons ago, but I have to agree with him 100 percent on this issue, mainly because I have been saying the exact same thing, ever since Holland hired his lap dog Mike Babcock. Trade for a guy like Dave Clarkson or Chris Neil, or draft one these good young tough players that also have the ability to score that every other GM is drafting, but do something to make playing against Detroit a little harder, and let other teams know that we have a guy who "can do that too". Steve Yzerman understood it, Scotty Bowman understood it, and Mike Babcock, I think, also understands it, but he's just too much of a wimp to say anything to Holland about it. Yes, he did manage to get Brad May on the roster a few seasons ago, and May did his job, but he was just too old, and besides, he didn't even play in the game against Philli??? That was head-scratching.

This!

[wingfan13]

Then tell me why Downey was dressed in warm-up (game 3) against Dallas?
Why Commodore is playing more (see Howard's comments)

Would we have won if he didnt dress ? Can you give an example of when Aaron Downey was the game changer with a timely fight ?

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

Was reading a Puck Daddy article today and it got me thinking, it is about drafting the tough players that can play nowadays. Holland and Andersson should be given all the credit in the world for finding the guys they've found in later rounds, but lately they haven't been getting the kinda guys we need to put us over the top (ie the big scoring winger and complimentary bottom line/pairing guys who are big and tough)

From the 2006 draft on, and before people jump on me these are just guys are had a shot at and missed:

2006
Milan Lucic
Jamie McBain
Ryan White
Brad Marchand (yuck)
Cal Clutterbuck
Theo Peckham

2007
Matt Frattin
Keith Aulie
Jamie Benn

2008
Travis Hamonic
Marco Scandella
Zach Smith
Dale Weise
Zach Rinaldo
Jason Demers (yuck)

2009
Ryan O'Reilly
Kyle Clifford
Marcus Foligno

2010
Quinton Howden
Devante Smith-Pelley

We've drafted some good players, and by going through the drafts we have had quite a few steals. But the fact remains all of the players I listed we had shots at, hindsight is 20/20 and I think Sheahan could develop into a pretty good bottom liner for us but it is too bad we couldn't land just one of these guys.

[newfy]

If Colton Orr got put on reentry waivers, and could be picked up for 500,000 a year that would be pretty awesome. Hes a tougher fighter and probably a bit better hockey player than Downey was back in 08. Just throw him in for those games against tougher guys, him an Commie as the 1,2 punch would be ok.

That being said a Colton Orr isnt needed. Some guys that can play a regular fourth line shift and scrap a bit would be good. Someone like Moen or Crombeen. Its not that hard to find a scrappy fourth liner. I would not be against Orr however at 500,000 a year either.

Smith on the roster full time next season will be a BIG help, Callahan and Sheahan will be coming up in the next 3 years or so as well. Cayer might even become a decent enforcer who can skate a regular shift as well.

Edited by newfy, 08 January 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Hairy Lime]

Would we have won if he didnt dress ? Can you give an example of when Aaron Downey was the game changer with a timely fight ?

You just don't get it, do you? Please tell me you're not our next GM.

But to give you one example: If my memory serves me well, I remember a game against the Ducks, where they were beating us up both physically and on the scoreboard. Downey went out and challenged Parros, won the fight, and Detroit seemed to respond. I still think they lost, but they came back and made a game out of it. They looked dead before the fight.

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

Would we have won if he didnt dress ? Can you give an example of when Aaron Downey was the game changer with a timely fight ?

[Finnish Wing]

Fact? Tell me one Stanley Cup they won without one?

That doesn't mean there has to be a correlation.