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Icesurfer

What's wrong with Abdelkader?

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In the past 6 games Abdelkader has been averaging only about 10 minutes per game. Earlier in the year he got up to 17 minutes.

In case anyone has forgotten Abby was Detroit's BEST plus/minus leader last year at PLUS 15.

IMHO, Detroit's road woes are due primarily to the second line of Filppula, Zetterberg and Hudler.... they are something like MINUS 24 on the road.

Opposing teams are smart when they have last change.... they put their checking line against Datsyuk's line and their best scoring line against Z, Fil and Hudler.... NO CONTEST.

Last year I remember Abby getting a few games on the top line and the second line and more on the third line. Why not? He is an excellent checker with good speed and willing to go into the corners and wins battles for pucks... unlike, say, someone like Hudler. Although, I do have to say I see Hudler willing to go to the net and that is how he is getting his points... but when it comes to checking a big scorer.... forget it. What good is getting 30 points when you give up 50 points in the process?

Yes, Abby has taken some bad penalties this year and has made a few bonehead plays, but what player hasn't (Datsyuk not included..LOL)?

If the fourth line is going to get only 7-9 minutes a night anyway why waste Abby on that line? The one problem I know is that Abby has centered and Emmerton is the only other center. So if Mursak is in for Emmerton there is no true center for the fourth line. I know Babcock has put Cleary on the second line for a few games lately on the road but then that messed up the third line... which was doing well before the injuries. Maybe the Wings should trade away Mursak and bring up Nyqvist who is a center. Could have Homer, Nyqvist and Hudler as the fourth line.

Abby can be a second line skater and would do well with Zetterberg and Filppula until at least Detroit gets a top 6 forward, hopefully, before the trade deadline.

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Hes awesome defensively but when hes at center he cant play his crash and bang style. Wings need to trade Emmerton for a real fourth line center and move Abby to wing where he actually scores and hits.

A fourth line center would improve the team by improving at center but moving Abdelkader to wing would be ahuge help in the grit department I think

haroldsnepsts likes this

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Hes awesome defensively but when hes at center he cant play his crash and bang style. Wings need to trade Emmerton for a real fourth line center and move Abby to wing where he actually scores and hits.

A fourth line center would improve the team by improving at center but moving Abdelkader to wing would be ahuge help in the grit department I think

I agree. With Emmerton, the fourth line is useless. Mursak improves the line, but Abby does not play his best hockey at center.

IMO if the lines are held, Miller should play on the fourth with Emmerton at center. Abby is a very effective wing, and his effectiveness at center is largely dependent on his wingers. Last year against Pheonix, the Abby's line was excellent with Abby at center. Abby doesn't make his line-mates better at center, but he is great at supporting them (puck retrieval, hitting, etc). At wing, Abby has the ability to create chances that he cannot (because of defensive responsibilities) at center.

Simply, Abby is a good center when he has good line-mates, but he is generally more effective at wing.

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He needs Miller. Miller makes Abdelkader a better player because he is better defensively than Emmerton, so Abdelkader can take risks and go a bit out of his way to make a hit or a play because Miller can cover for him. Emmerton isn't bad, but just not as good as Miller. Once Eaves returns, Miller should slide back to the 4th and Abby should return to form. (unless Babcock can't take his head out of his ass.)

Namingway and syntax like this

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Last year in the playoffs, he had 0 points in 11 playoff games, and took countless boneheaded penalties. At that point, I realized how useless he is.

Along with Emmerton, he's the most expendable forward on this team. Hardly ever fights and doesn't play as aggressive as he did several years ago.

If he doesn't return next season, I could care less. We need to find a bigger, harder hitting forward on our checking lines.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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He needs more cowbell !!! Sorry I couldn't help it. I agree he needs to be moved to wing , it's where he can play his game

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He needs Miller. Miller makes Abdelkader a better player because he is better defensively than Emmerton, so Abdelkader can take risks and go a bit out of his way to make a hit or a play because Miller can cover for him. Emmerton isn't bad, but just not as good as Miller. Once Eaves returns, Miller should slide back to the 4th and Abby should return to form. (unless Babcock can't take his head out of his ass.)

He can't create with Emmerton and Homer. I've been posting that Abby and Helm should swap. IMO Helm's speed can make the fourth line much better and Abby does not make the third line worse.

Last year in the playoffs, he had 0 points in 11 playoff games, and took countless boneheaded penalties. At that point, I realized how useless he is.

Along with Emmerton, he's the most expendable forward on this team. Hardly ever fights and doesn't play as aggressive as he did several years ago.

If he doesn't return next season, I could care less. We need to find a bigger, harder hitting forward on our checking lines.

Do you really want to trade the teams leading fighter and second leading hitter? Further, instead of keeping Abby and adding a fighter/physical forward, you want to only add someone else? Have you changed your viewpoint- and now want the Wings to be soft- or do you just have an irrational opinion of Abdelkader?

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IMHO, Detroit's road woes are due primarily to the second line of Filppula, Zetterberg and Hudler.... they are something like MINUS 24 on the road.

Opposing teams are smart when they have last change.... they put their checking line against Datsyuk's line and their best scoring line against Z, Fil and Hudler.... NO CONTEST.

Abby can be a second line skater and would do well with Zetterberg and Filppula until at least Detroit gets a top 6 forward, hopefully, before the trade deadline.

That is a surprising stat to me for sure. I see Z and Flip on the ice I think "NO CONTEST" for opposing forwards, but if it's not working it's not working. I would love to see Abby on the 2nd line (as well as Eaves but he's had his own woes to deal with at the moment) he would be a thorn in the rose bush so to speak. Abby also responds well when being pushed recently (his mins dropped while playing well??) so at very least trying it out on the road is worth a shot for sure.

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Last year in the playoffs, he had 0 points in 11 playoff games, and took countless boneheaded penalties. At that point, I realized how useless he is.

Along with Emmerton, he's the most expendable forward on this team. Hardly ever fights and doesn't play as aggressive as he did several years ago.

If he doesn't return next season, I could care less. We need to find a bigger, harder hitting forward on our checking lines.

Couldn't agree more. He has been a disappointment all season....and although he has stopped with the idiotic penalties, he makes really poor decisions with the puck. He is lucky to get the ice time he does IMO>

Rick D likes this

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The problem with Abdelkader is he is not good enough to play in the NHL. Not on this team anyways. If the waiver situation was reversed, we would be seeing Nyquist, and Tatar instead of Emmerton and Abdelkader.

Abby got most of his points and that big +/- playing with Cleary at the beginning of last season when Danny was scoring every time he shot the puck.

It drives me nuts that he get preferential treatment from Babcock because of his size.

Anyways, I agree with everyone about the lack of depth at centre being the bigger problem. In previous years, the Wings have had plenty of depth at centre, but now that Draper is gone and Filppula is playing wing, we've found ourselves with a serious hole up the middle.

We need to acquire a Nhl caliber centreman. If he's better than Helm and can take the 3rd line spot, Great! but if not, I'd be happy with any step up from Emmerton.

With a good enough centre I think Abdelkader can be a serviceable 4th line winger, sort of a "Mcarty light" type guy.

Supernova and Detroit # 1 Fan like this

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Well reports from Khan at Mlive.com suggest the Wings are interested in trading for a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 grit guy. Doesn't specify if the bottom 6 guy will be a center or not, but considering Emmerton's limitations it's not unrealistic to think that's where the addition would come in to play. Also, I agree with pretty much everyone's frustration about Abby's lack of production, but as he plays good defense, finishes his checks, and has good size, I think he's a valuable asset for any playoff bound team. When the games become tighter, guys like Abby increase in utility.

Edited by kipwinger

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I want to add to what I wrote yesterday.

When Abby was first called up, he hit everything that moved and was effective on every shift. He really wanted to make the team. Now that he has his roster spot, that same hunger and aggression isn't there anymore. He still hits people, but not to the same extent and frequency.

I want to see more passion out of him again.

He can't create with Emmerton and Homer. I've been posting that Abby and Helm should swap. IMO Helm's speed can make the fourth line much better and Abby does not make the third line worse.

Do you really want to trade the teams leading fighter and second leading hitter? Further, instead of keeping Abby and adding a fighter/physical forward, you want to only add someone else? Have you changed your viewpoint- and now want the Wings to be soft- or do you just have an irrational opinion of Abdelkader?

Our leading fighter? LOL. That's not saying much. And he's our second leading hitter because we don't have too many hitters.

My whole point is that we should look for a bigger, harder hitting 4th liner, who actually fights and can contribute what Abby contributes offensively. Such players are not that hard to find.

Rick D likes this

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The problem with Abdelkader is he is not good enough to play in the NHL. Not on this team anyways. If the waiver situation was reversed, we would be seeing Nyquist, and Tatar instead of Emmerton and Abdelkader.

Abby got most of his points and that big +/- playing with Cleary at the beginning of last season when Danny was scoring every time he shot the puck.

It drives me nuts that he get preferential treatment from Babcock because of his size.

Anyways, I agree with everyone about the lack of depth at centre being the bigger problem. In previous years, the Wings have had plenty of depth at centre, but now that Draper is gone and Filppula is playing wing, we've found ourselves with a serious hole up the middle.

We need to acquire a Nhl caliber centreman. If he's better than Helm and can take the 3rd line spot, Great! but if not, I'd be happy with any step up from Emmerton.

With a good enough centre I think Abdelkader can be a serviceable 4th line winger, sort of a "Mcarty light" type guy.

Let us compare Helm and Abby- I am assuming you believe that Helm is 'good enough' for the NHL while Abby is not. To put the statistics is perspective, Helm has played two less games, but he has a 2min/game TOI advantage. Helm has played ~45 min more than Abby this season. Thus, Helm's statistics (in total) should be similar or better (if you assume Helm is the better player), as it would take Abby three more games to equal Helm's total TOI.

Face off percentage: Abby has a .2 advantage. IMO this is a draw.

Hits: Abby has 24 more hits than Helm. Advantage Abby.

Blocked Shots: Abby has 5 more. Advantage Abby.

Giveaways: Helm has 4 more. Advantage Abby.

Takeaways: Helm has 8 more. Advantage Helm.

Goals: Both have five. Draw.

Assists: Helm has one more. IMO draw.

PIM: Abby has more (minors and total). Draw IMO as Abby has off-setting minors often.

+/-: Helm has a +2 advantage; however, they have equal goals for when on the ice. Draw/edge Helm.

Fights: Abby has two, Helm hasn't come close. Advantage Abby.

You credit Abby's success to Cleary, but you do not credit Cleary with the success of Helm or Miller. Simply, Abby has done at least as well as Helm (on paper) despite spending more time on a line with Emmerton and Homer. Abby is not the problem, the makeup of the fourth line is the problem IMO.

syntax and newfy like this

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I want to add to what I wrote yesterday.

When Abby was first called up, he hit everything that moved and was effective on every shift. He really wanted to make the team. Now that he has his roster spot, that same hunger and aggression isn't there anymore. He still hits people, but not to the same extent and frequency.

I want to see more passion out of him again.

Our leading fighter? LOL. That's not saying much. And he's our second leading hitter because we don't have too many hitters.

My whole point is that we should look for a bigger, harder hitting 4th liner, who actually fights and can contribute what Abby contributes offensively. Such players are not that hard to find.

Abby's tenacity has gone down, but much of that is due to him playing center. At wing, that player still exists. Further, you can say the same thing about Helm. When he played as call-up in the playoffs, he was a hitting machine. Now, Helm does not make as much of an impact physically.

You want to trade Abby and not Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, and Helm despite them having similar stats. You want to trade the Wings most physical player instead of keeping him. You always complain that the Wings lack toughness, yet you want to trade the small amount of toughness they posses. Team toughness is created through multiple players- not one enforcer. If you want to Wings to have more toughness, trading Abby is not the best route.

newfy likes this

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Can we send him to russia and have him get some guidance from the LAST #8 in EXCELLENCE we had? I'm sure the Professor has some spare time on his hands. :clap:

evilzyme likes this

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Abby needs to play on the third line at wing with helm at center

cleary/helm/abby

not sure if babcock has tried this out yet but this is what the 3rd line should be. Get rid of the useless miller and emmerton and get some bangers for the 4th line and rotate eaves and mursak.

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Get him back on the wing. Then trade Miller+4th to Buffalo for Gaustad, and then Emmerton+3rd for Moen.

Moen-Helm-Cleary

Abdelkader-Gaustad-Homer/Eaves/Mursak

:yowza:

redwingfan19 likes this

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Let us compare Helm and Abby- I am assuming you believe that Helm is 'good enough' for the NHL while Abby is not. To put the statistics is perspective, Helm has played two less games, but he has a 2min/game TOI advantage. Helm has played ~45 min more than Abby this season. Thus, Helm's statistics (in total) should be similar or better (if you assume Helm is the better player), as it would take Abby three more games to equal Helm's total TOI.

Face off percentage: Abby has a .2 advantage. IMO this is a draw.

Hits: Abby has 24 more hits than Helm. Advantage Abby.

Blocked Shots: Abby has 5 more. Advantage Abby.

Giveaways: Helm has 4 more. Advantage Abby.

Takeaways: Helm has 8 more. Advantage Helm.

Goals: Both have five. Draw.

Assists: Helm has one more. IMO draw.

PIM: Abby has more (minors and total). Draw IMO as Abby has off-setting minors often.

+/-: Helm has a +2 advantage; however, they have equal goals for when on the ice. Draw/edge Helm.

Fights: Abby has two, Helm hasn't come close. Advantage Abby.

You credit Abby's success to Cleary, but you do not credit Cleary with the success of Helm or Miller. Simply, Abby has done at least as well as Helm (on paper) despite spending more time on a line with Emmerton and Homer. Abby is not the problem, the makeup of the fourth line is the problem IMO.

I'm sorry but saying Abdelkader is better than Helm is completely asinine. This make me think you 1) don't watch many games and judge players by what you see on the game sheet or 2) Abdlekader's moher.

I won't waste my time trying to prove why one player is better than another with someone who is so blatantly ignorant.

I can guarantee you that no one in the hockey world agrees with you on that one. You might find some posters who might agree that Abby > Miller. You should start with that.

And I can guarantee that nobody in league goes into a game worried about being roughed-up, hit, or fought by Abdelakder. I would bet most players haven't even heard of him. Don't worry about him getting traded, he's not worth a 3rd round pick.

hooon likes this

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GMR are you serious? We should trade ABdelkader and get a real tough 4th liner?

Or maybe this team could just get another tough 4th liner so Abdelkader actually has someone to back him up here and there. If the guy had back up he would be great, he used to stir s*** up with May all the time. I remember the one game in Minny Clutterbuck and Burns both dropped the gloves at separate occasions with Abdelkader.

Hes definitely a tough physical forward, you just had your hopes up for the next coming of Mccarty which Abdelkader isnt. He is a great complimentary tough guy and plays even tougher when he has some back up on his line. This team as a whole is completely soft, once they get someone else in there with Abby that will go into a scrum and back him up youll see him playing tough again.

Its no coicidence that when he was with GR on one of the toughest teams in the league he was killer out there. Also gotta move him from center

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I'm sorry but saying Abdelkader is better than Helm is completely asinine. This make me think you 1) don't watch many games and judge players by what you see on the game sheet or 2) Abdlekader's moher.

I won't waste my time trying to prove why one player is better than another with someone who is so blatantly ignorant.

I can guarantee you that no one in the hockey world agrees with you on that one. You might find some posters who might agree that Abby > Miller. You should start with that.

And I can guarantee that nobody in league goes into a game worried about being roughed-up, hit, or fought by Abdelakder. I would bet most players haven't even heard of him. Don't worry about him getting traded, he's not worth a 3rd round pick.

Where in my post did I say Abby is better than Helm? I simply presented the statistics, and the statistics are not in favor of Helm.

I have missed less than 5 Wings' games over the past two seasons- I watch the games. I have also played hockey, and I know (first-hand) that speed makes players stand out and they can be perceived as better than they are in reality. Helm is a good player, and I am glad he is on the Wings. Abby is a good player, and I am glad he is on the Wings.

I have presented facts that show (especially if you adjust the numbers for total TOI) Abby is at least as good statistically as Helm. You can argue intangibles if you like, but those are difficult to quantify.

Why is my argument ignorant? I used facts from NHL.com and presented them without making a judgement on the better overall player. Please explain how this is ignorant.

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