517 replies to this topic

[AceInTheSleeve]

Sad thing is that he needs to respond.

Why is it sad that jimmy needs to respond to getting punched in the face? Every goalie should respond to that s***, it would happen a lot less.

[syntax]

This is interesting:

19:58
David Backes: 2 Minutes for Roughing Jimmy Howard
19:58
David Backes: 10 Minute Misconduct Jimmy Howard
19:58
Alex Pietrangelo: 2 Minutes for Roughing Jimmy Howard
19:58
Alex Pietrangelo: 10 Minute Misconduct Jimmy Howard
19:58
Jimmy Howard: 2 Minutes for Roughing David Backes


Make it happen, Shanny!

[Heroes of Hockeytown]

Some interesting quotes from the recap:

Stewart was given a penalty for instigating and a 10- minute misconduct, but didn’t regret it because he said Pietrangelo has to be protected.

“I have no problem doing that,” Stewart said. “That was definitely more playoff hockey. Physical from the start. Trying to set the tone against a rival and somebody who you’ll probably face in the playoffs.”

I have no problem with you taking dumb penalties that cost your team the game either, Chris.

“It appeared to me that they thought they could be physical with us,” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said.

This just made me laugh.

Finally, a comparison:

“I think they picked it up in the second period and we got discouraged when they took the lead,” St. Louis forward Patrik Berglund said.

“We played good in stretches, but we crumbled when things got tight,” Blues forward Jamie Langenbrunner said. “We got those retaliatory penalties. That takes away our momentum and gets us out of our comfort zone.”

Verus...

“We have such a calm team,” said Jimmy Howard, who made 21 saves for his league-leading 30th win. “Nothing seems to rattle us.”

[Hockeytown0001]

Why is it sad that jimmy needs to respond to getting punched in the face? Every goalie should respond to that s***, it would happen a lot less.

I think that he means it's sad that Detroit doesn't have an enforcer to respond FOR Jimmy.

[Vladiator]

JIMMMMMMAY!

If the stars could have aligned .... Jimmy VS Roy would have been a treat.

[Hockeytown0001]

If the stars could have aligned .... Jimmy VS Roy would have been a treat.

Patty would have suffered a hat trick of beat downs.

[cprice12]

Overall Detroit was the better team tonight. They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.
Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win. Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.
Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

[Forecheck808]

<br />Overall Detroit was the better team tonight.  They deserved to win.<br /><br />With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.<br />Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.<br /><br />1)  I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty.  Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first.  Stuart was a willing participant.  Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart.  I disagreed with that call.  You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off.  That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.<br /><br />2)  Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference.  Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him.  If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck.  Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo.  It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.<br /><br />My first point is debatable.  I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation.  But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all.  It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.<br /><br />Congrats on the win.  Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.<br />Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

[irishock]

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

So.. who cares?

He's been here the whole game and unlike most people that post at other teams forums just for the game, he has been on here a couple times I seen when were not playing the Blues. I for one say he is welcome to stay! . Except for some on LGB forum that I was reading, kinda pathetic but that's a whole new thing.

Now for my thought on the game, good game out of the Red Wings. Blues had a good first period but once the Red Wings scored on a Dastyuk nipe, Blues didn't know how to respond and next thing you know there down 2 to 1. Blues tried to goon it up (nothing wrong with it). Red Wings did a good job by sticking to what they do best and just beat teams with skill, although don't get me wrong, I loved the scrum with 01.5 left!

[cprice12]

There is so much crying going on over at the Blues board. They are convinced that the NBC announcers are in love with the Red Wings, that Stuart should be suspended for his hit, and that Howard instigated the fight at the end.
Also that Helm should have had a penalty when Carlo got called, and that Franzen's goal should have been discounted.

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.
Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?
Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

[Holmstrom96]

Video:

[cprice12]

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

You've been here almost 2 months.

I've been here almost 10 years.

Good enough?

K THANKS BYE.

[hockey23]

Overall Detroit was the better team tonight. They deserved to win.

With that said...I had some issues with a couple things.
Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

Congrats on the win. Like I said, Detroit was the better team in this game.
Maybe we can even up the season series on the next game in St. Louis...and hopefully we beat Pittsburgh tomorrow to get right back to within 1 pt. of the Wings.

Completely disagree. From the rule book...

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled;... obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.

Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

[cprice12]

He got punched in the face. What else would he have done? And what could the players on the ice have done differently? There were 6 Blues forwards one the ice and all of them had a Wing tied up, leaving the 6th guy on Howard.

I don't like that those were the players out there, but what exactly is Howard supposed to do differently when he gets suckere punched in the face?

Just analyzed the replay.
Petro didn't look like he made contact with Howard when he took a swing, if he did he just grazed his shoulder, maybe the side of his mask...but he wasn't sucker punched. And it looked like the puck came up, Howard had it on his chest, may have been fluttering a bit, Petro took a swing that goes over Howard's shoulder...maybe he's swinging at the puck trying to punch it in, not sure what he was doing because you lose sight of the puck from that camera angle.
Honestly, if he wanted to sucker punch him, he could have easily done so.

Either that, or he is a horrible fighter with terrible aim.

[haroldsnepsts]

<br /><br /><br />

You're on the wrong forum.

Some of our better members here are from fans of other teams. It's always good to get perspective from fans of other teams, as long as they're not trolling.

And realize that they need to play nice because they're in hostile territory.

Completely disagree. From the rule book...


Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

Agreed. Stuart may have technically dropped the gloves first, but Stewart clearly came over to challenge him to a fight. The Wing's Stuart isn't going to turtle, so he obliged. But Stewart (man this name thing is annoying) clearly instigated the fight.

Him challenging Stuart was pretty much the textbook case for the instigator.

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.
Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?
Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

Goalies typically get off lighter in situations like that. Howard had two Blues players jabbing at his head.

To me the frustrating part is that Howie is among the most tenacious and physical Wing's players in those situations.

[cprice12]

Completely disagree. From the rule book...



Stewart came off the bench and went all the way across the ice directly to Stuart. Perfectly fits under "distance traveled." And the retribution was even more obvious.

Seems pretty obvious to me that he met the criteria of an instigator.

I agree that he went over there to start a fight. And he went a long way to do it. Which is probably why he got the penalty.
But Stuart was very willing to go and dropped the gloves first instead of skating away or making Stewart drop them first.
I just don't like that call as an instigator penalty. In most fights, one guy wants to go, gives the other guy a shot and they go.
If Stewart goes over there gives him a shot and drops the gloves first and Stuart is forced to drop the gloves to defend himself, then yes, by all means Stewart gets the instigator.
I fail to see why distance traveled should come into play IF both guys are willing participants and especially if the other guy drops his gloves first.

[haroldsnepsts]

I agree that he went over there to start a fight. And he went a long way to do it. Which is probably why he got the penalty.
But Stuart was very willing to go and dropped the gloves first instead of skating away or making Stewart drop them first.
I just don't like that call as an instigator penalty. In most fights, one guy wants to go, gives the other guy a shot and they go.
If Stewart goes over there gives him a shot and drops the gloves first and Stuart is forced to drop the gloves to defend himself, then yes, by all means Stewart gets the instigator.
I fail to see why distance traveled should come into play IF both guys are willing participants and especially if the other guy drops his gloves first.

I'm sure Stuart would've preferred not to fight, but he's not going to turtle.

It's about more than distance travelled. Stewart came off the bench and came right over to Stuart. He had no intention of doing anything but fighting.

[AceInTheSleeve]

Detroit's two power play goals probably shouldn't have happened...I'll explain.

1) I don't think Stewart should have gotten an instigator penalty. Yes, he approached Stuart and wanted to fight...that's obvious...but Stuart dropped his gloves first. Stuart was a willing participant. Stewart didn't drop his gloves and jump on Stuart. I disagreed with that call. You see fights start all of the time where one guy goes over to another guy and gives him a shot and says let's go, and the other guy agrees and the gloves come off. That's the way I saw this...Stewart just went a long way to fight Stuart.

2) Helm's hit on Pietrangelo late in the 3rd was textbook interference. Petro was skating for the puck and he seemed to be a good 5 or 6 feet from the puck, hadn't touched it yet, and Helm destroys him. If Petro would have had the puck, it would have been a great hit...but the only problem was he didn't have the puck. Assuming Carlo still retaliates, it should have been 2 minutes on Helm and 2 minutes on Carlo. It should have been 4 on 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left instead of a Detroit PP.

My first point is debatable. I'm sure you can make a case that Stewart should have gotten the instigator and argue that...we could debate that all day since it comes down to rule interpretation. But I don't see the 2nd point being debatable at all. It's clearly interference on Helm, and just not called.

You are experiencing what is known as confirmation bias syndrome. Don't worry this happens to the best of us, and is a common occurrence when your favorite team loses a game.

[cnot19]

To be fair, Helm SHOULD have gotten an interference penalty.
Stuart's hit on Petro was a good hit, nothing illegal about it...but Stewart was right in defending his teammate. Helm's hit on Petro would have been good except for the fact Petro didn't have the puck on the last one. Carlo reacted poorly...either stand up for your teammate or don't...don't just put the guy in a headlock, what does that do?
Howard didn't instigate the fight, but he got off easy with only 2 minutes. He was throwing punches at everyone. He should have gotten a lot more, but it didn't matter...game was over.

I certainly like having an opposing voice, sometimes with too many on one side we can lose our objectiveness and simply agree with each other because were homers, so I applaud you for being part of this board. Either way i think Stewart deserved the extra two, maybe not the instigator ( taking him out for ten) but would have been fine with him getting two for roughing since he initiated the altercation after a clean hit, either way i dont think stewart was too off base, good for him for standing up for his teammate.

As far as the Helm hit, i dont think he deserved a penalty, I didnt see anything wrong with the hit. I think thats just good hard nosed hockey. IMO I really think Carlo cost his team there more than anything, and would be more annoyed by that than the missed call. Even if the refs miss calls (which they do) why give them a really easy way to call one on you?

Either way, I like the blues, their style of play, and have always been a fan of John Davidson, look forward to having more competitive battles with the Blues.

Edited by cnot19, 24 January 2012 - 01:02 AM.