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#41 ogreslayer

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:49 PM

Carter is not a team guy and the INSTANT you have to say in your arguement that he has a history of boning other guys wives, well get the ^$# outta here. Nash is a character guy...even Ryan, but *** Carter. It will NEVER HAPPEN and if you were a Wings fan and had some idea about the history of this franchise, you'd know that.

The Wings would never trade for a guy who boned another man's wife? I think this guy would disagree...

Posted Image

But that's more about the history of another franchise I guess. If you do want to talk Wings franchise history though, I think it's pretty safe to say that if the front office & the coaching staff really thought that Carter was the piece to take them over the top & win The Cup this year (like they did with a certain lad of Irish descent that they traded for in 1996) Kenny would find a way to get it done.

#42 Wingydingy19

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

I'm not sure Kenny is going to do much that impacts the lineup this year. Sure he might add a complimentary piece like 4th line grinder or a 6-7 defenseman but I just don't think that's going to cut it this time. This team just gets too stale sometimes and that might be ok during the reg season but come playoff time it just won't do. If the power play goes cold like it is right now they'll be bounced in a heartbeat by a team like SJ or Van or Chi. As much as I respect Kenny and the brass of this team I think this year has to be attacked a little differently if they really want to push for the cup. All this being said if a true top 3 player is available (Nash, parise, stall etc... They really should look into making a move. I'm not sure Carter is the guy but if he can be had for maybe:

Jurco
Kindle
First rounder

For Carter

Then I think you go for it.

#43 Motown4013

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:42 AM

The Wings would never trade for a guy who boned another man's wife? I think this guy would disagree...

Posted Image

But that's more about the history of another franchise I guess. If you do want to talk Wings franchise history though, I think it's pretty safe to say that if the front office & the coaching staff really thought that Carter was the piece to take them over the top & win The Cup this year (like they did with a certain lad of Irish descent that they traded for in 1996) Kenny would find a way to get it done.

I think this is a very different situation.He ended up marrying her...this wasn't a notch in his belt over a teammate.....the dude fell in love. Shanny did not have a bad reputation or thought of being a prima-Donna. He alos wasnt injury proned and has never been accused of not having a ton of charactor or a huge heart. To suggest the 2 are comparable are kinda ridiculous.
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#44 Hairy Lime

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:48 AM

You make no sense here...if Carter is "worth" more....we would have to package more to get him, right??? We learned that in grade two...stay with me.
As for your assumption about me and my love for frat boy, cooler drinking softies, ummmm NO. I love the bad boys to be honest...huge Bert fan, loved Drake ect. Stop making these ridiculous personal judgements about anyone that doesnt agree with you.
Good ness gracious.
A 40 goal scorer would help. Of course one would- but not at the risk of the team. Carter is not a team guy and the INSTANT you have to say in your arguement that he has a history of boning other guys wives, well get the ^$# outta here. Nash is a character guy...even Ryan, but *** Carter. It will NEVER HAPPEN and if you were a Wings fan and had some idea about the history of this franchise, you'd know that.


Ok, I am going to try and simplify it for you as to not go over your head: Carter wants out of Columbus. It's also no secret that Columbus wants to trade him. The second a player wants out of an organization and everyone knows it, that gives other teams leverage in negotiations. Sure, Columbus does have to deal him, but they WANT TOO! They will not be asking for the kitchen sink like Anaheim would be for Ryan.

As to "boning other guys wives", who knows if that is true or not. But you had better get off your moral high horse, because Detroit used to have player named Brendan Shanahan, ever heard of him? Ask Craig Janney about him.


But hey, if Detroit could get another right-handed sniper, fine. But it won't come as cheaply(in terms of what we will have to give up). But since everyone KNOWS that Carter will destroy the locker-room, which does not say much for Detroit's locker-room that ONE player could "tear it apart", I will say that I KNOW that he will behave and mature here. How do I know that he will? I don't, just like you don't know he won't. Does evidence favor your argument? Maybe. But in Philly, he was in a pretty divisive locker-room to begin with, with some pretty big egos and personalities ... and they still went to the finals! Imagine that? Detroit has a pretty ego-free locker-room, except for maybe Franzen, so I see nothing standing in the way of his maturing.


Detroit has no right-handed shooters in their top six forwards. If you think that that doesn't remove a dimension from their game, you are sorely mistaken. It limits shooting options. How many times have you heard Mickey Redmond say: "If he would of been a right-handed shot, he would of buried it". The one thing Detroit's top-six forwards have going for them, and why they haven't been completely limited, is that Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Zetterberg, and Hudler all have pretty good back-hands. But you put a potent right-handed shot on either one of those top two lines, preferably both, you will see the scoring chances go up. I guarantee it.

#45 F.Michael

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

Anybody who thinks that Carter would not be a great addition(and give Detroit that much-needed right-handed sniper)probably needs to watch another sport. Hockey is not your game. Character/Attitude problems? Well, I guess LA should of traded Kobe Bryant years ago? I will admit, I like players with good character, but I also like to win... and besides, the worse thing I heard about Carter is that he likes to chase teammate's wife's. If you have a faithful wife, you have nothing to worry about. Would I rather have a player like Bobby Ryan? Sure, but the price would be a lot steeper.

One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch. Get 'er done, Kenny!

While I for one don't follow the NBA, but with that said I've gotten the impression that in the past 15 years pro basketball has become less team oriented, and seems to allow the spotlight to shine on the individuals - hence why "Kobe" is at home in LA-LA-Land.

Carter has the talent every team wants, but the attitude the gms/coaches don't want.

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#46 Echolalia

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:38 PM

If it was a one year contract I'd be willing to overlook all the warning signs that follow this guy around, but it's too much of a risk for a long term investment on someone who could become a cancer and render himself a very difficult person to move

#47 F.Michael

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:38 PM

ogreslayer - that's a big-ass pic of Craig Janney...Did ya take the poster from your bedroom wall, and scan it to post it here ;)

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#48 ogreslayer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:07 PM

ogreslayer - that's a big-ass pic of Craig Janney...Did ya take the poster from your bedroom wall, and scan it to post it here ;)

Nope, just the best pic I could find on-line where he had a hang-dog "You just did what with my wife?" look on his face.

#49 F.Michael

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:13 PM

Nope, just the best pic I could find on-line where he had a hang-dog "You just did what with my wife?" look on his face.

:lol:

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#50 ogreslayer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

I think this is a very different situation.He ended up marrying her...this wasn't a notch in his belt over a teammate.....the dude fell in love. Shanny did not have a bad reputation or thought of being a prima-Donna. He alos wasnt injury proned and has never been accused of not having a ton of charactor or a huge heart. To suggest the 2 are comparable are kinda ridiculous.

Carter was only rumored to have slept with Hartnell's wife where Shanny did indeed do that & ended up marrying Janney's wife 3 years after the incident. So I guess that means by your line of thinking, once Carter marries the former Lisa Hartnell & confirms that their screwing around is what broke up her marriage, the Wings organization (and by extension you) would be able to welcome him with open arms?

Oh and for Carter being a prima donna & making it known he wants out of Columbus being something that Shanny would never do here's just a little bit of an article from back in October of 1996 about a little transaction between the Wings & Whalers...

Hartford is finally in Brendan Shanahan's rearview mirror.

The Whalers granted Shanahan's wish yesterday when they traded the disgruntled forward along with defenseman Brian Glynn to the Detroit Red Wings for Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau and a first-round draft pick next year.

The 27-year-old Shanahan, a first-round choice of the Devils in the 1987 draft, made noise all summer that he wanted out of Hartford. He was held scoreless last night during Detroit's 2-0 victory over the Edmonton Oilers.


http://www.nytimes.c...for-coffey.html

Maybe take the Wings Rose-Red colored glasses off & see the situations aren't all that different after all.

Edited by ogreslayer, 09 February 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#51 Motown4013

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

Ok, I am going to try and simplify it for you as to not go over your head: Carter wants out of Columbus. It's also no secret that Columbus wants to trade him. The second a player wants out of an organization and everyone knows it, that gives other teams leverage in negotiations. Sure, Columbus does have to deal him, but they WANT TOO! They will not be asking for the kitchen sink like Anaheim would be for Ryan.

As to "boning other guys wives", who knows if that is true or not. But you had better get off your moral high horse, because Detroit used to have player named Brendan Shanahan, ever heard of him? Ask Craig Janney about him.


But hey, if Detroit could get another right-handed sniper, fine. But it won't come as cheaply(in terms of what we will have to give up). But since everyone KNOWS that Carter will destroy the locker-room, which does not say much for Detroit's locker-room that ONE player could "tear it apart", I will say that I KNOW that he will behave and mature here. How do I know that he will? I don't, just like you don't know he won't. Does evidence favor your argument? Maybe. But in Philly, he was in a pretty divisive locker-room to begin with, with some pretty big egos and personalities ... and they still went to the finals! Imagine that? Detroit has a pretty ego-free locker-room, except for maybe Franzen, so I see nothing standing in the way of his maturing.


Detroit has no right-handed shooters in their top six forwards. If you think that that doesn't remove a dimension from their game, you are sorely mistaken. It limits shooting options. How many times have you heard Mickey Redmond say: "If he would of been a right-handed shot, he would of buried it". The one thing Detroit's top-six forwards have going for them, and why they haven't been completely limited, is that Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Zetterberg, and Hudler all have pretty good back-hands. But you put a potent right-handed shot on either one of those top two lines, preferably both, you will see the scoring chances go up. I guarantee it.

Wow.
For future discussions, just because I have a clitoris, that does not make me a moron or a prude...in fact, pure mathamatics here stand to reason that CARTER MAKES MORE MONEY..(Ryan makes less)you seem to be stuck on this. Perhaps there are summer classes for math you can attend in your area.

Moral high horse? Again...this is NOT about a player, an incident ( Shanny/ Carter, Other Wife Boning), its about a TEAM. We lead the league right now with this solid, respectable group of men that make up the Wings. I dont give a shard what they "really do" ... If Cleary drinks too much or if White is secretly a leather daddy. I DONT CARE. Its working...and they have chemistry and nobody in that room makes a scene. Carter makes a scene. Carter is known for lazy play and a bad attitude, proned to injury, excessive partying AND he has a contract more bloated than Ken Hitchcocks feet. NO THANKS.

Lastly, you state that you KNOW that Carter will behave here and mature ( well, then you say you don't know, just like I don't) which again, makes no sense and has no merit as an arguement BUT we have no idea how it would or would not work...but what I am saying (pushing the echo button here) is the RISKS outweigh the rewards by a steep margin because of all the X factors ( His CONTACT, his credibility, his character) Of Course we score more goals...of score offense goes up. You are correct...but again, risk verses reward. I think Carter is a sketchy prospect (because if he wasn't, Burke would have signed him by now) I hope the guy finds his feng shui, I hope he matures and I hope he finds a good team. I ONLY hope its not with DETROIT!!!!!!
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#52 Motown4013

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

Carter was only rumored to have slept with Hartnell's wife where Shanny did indeed do that & ended up marrying Janney's wife 3 years after the incident. So I guess that means by your line of thinking, once Carter marries the former Lisa Hartnell & confirms that their screwing around is what broke up her marriage, the Wings organization (and by extension you) would be able to welcome him with open arms?

Oh and for Carter being a prima donna & making it known he wants out of Columbus being something that Shanny would never do here's just a little bit of an article from back in October of 1996 about a little transaction between the Wings & Whalers...



http://www.nytimes.c...for-coffey.html

Maybe take the Wings Rose-Red colored glasses off & see the situations aren't all that different after all.

All very good points. Perhaps with twitter and youtube, Carter's bad ass ways are much more public. I remember that summer that Shanahan wanted out...but we werent saturated with it 24-7. I still contend that Carter hasnt shown me anything i like thus far but interesting that they are both 27...still young as a person and a player. Anyway, I still dont want Carter on this team for a hundred different reasons...Shanny, id take back in a heartbeat!
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#53 Hairy Lime

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:05 PM

Wow.
For future discussions, just because I have a clitoris, that does not make me a moron or a prude...in fact, pure mathamatics here stand to reason that CARTER MAKES MORE MONEY..(Ryan makes less)you seem to be stuck on this. Perhaps there are summer classes for math you can attend in your area.

Moral high horse? Again...this is NOT about a player, an incident ( Shanny/ Carter, Other Wife Boning), its about a TEAM. We lead the league right now with this solid, respectable group of men that make up the Wings. I dont give a shard what they "really do" ... If Cleary drinks too much or if White is secretly a leather daddy. I DONT CARE. Its working...and they have chemistry and nobody in that room makes a scene. Carter makes a scene. Carter is known for lazy play and a bad attitude, proned to injury, excessive partying AND he has a contract more bloated than Ken Hitchcocks feet. NO THANKS.

Lastly, you state that you KNOW that Carter will behave here and mature ( well, then you say you don't know, just like I don't) which again, makes no sense and has no merit as an arguement BUT we have no idea how it would or would not work...but what I am saying (pushing the echo button here) is the RISKS outweigh the rewards by a steep margin because of all the X factors ( His CONTACT, his credibility, his character) Of Course we score more goals...of score offense goes up. You are correct...but again, risk verses reward. I think Carter is a sketchy prospect (because if he wasn't, Burke would have signed him by now) I hope the guy finds his feng shui, I hope he matures and I hope he finds a good team. I ONLY hope its not with DETROIT!!!!!!


First of all, I had no idea you were a woman, nor do I care. And what do you not understand about "in terms of what Detroit would have to give up'? I know that Carter makes more money than Ryan; I'm saying that Detroit would have to give up less in term of players/prospects to acquire him. Am I speaking in Latin? Carter would be the cheapest high-profile player available, again, in terms of what Detroit would have to give up. Would I rather have Ryan? Sure, and If Holland could make it happen and not have to sell the farm to do so, then by all means.

Secondly, Carter in not prone to injury. He's had 1 season in his first 6 were he played less that 70 games. Zetterberg had two. Carter has played in at least 80 game in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Kronwall, Filppula and Franzen have only played in at least 80 games once. You're going to have to define "injury prone"

Thirdly, You're right, no one can have any idea if any trade will work, but I think it would be worth the risk. And if you think one player can have a dramatic effect on a locker-room, especially a locker-room like Detroit's, you listen to the press too much. Polarizing players make great scapegoats if a team underachieves, but it is never one player. These are professional athletes and this THEE professional team. Carter can only make this team better. Nothing else.

We will obviously never see eye-to-eye on this: You see a selfish, lazy, 'injury-prone" prima donna, that will somehow destroy team chemistry. --- I see a player in need of a little guidance, who is a 30-50 goal scorer, and will drastically improve Detroit's chances of winning the Cup. Agree to disagree.

#54 Crymson

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:58 PM

I don't see how taking a risk on someone with such a massively long and expensive contract and an NTC could possibly be considered worth it.

#55 dirtydangles

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

I don't see how taking a risk on someone with such a massively long and expensive contract and an NTC could possibly be considered worth it.

The NTC no longer exists in his contract. it was nullified when philly traded him before it kicked in.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#56 Motown4013

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:29 PM

First of all, I had no idea you were a woman, nor do I care. And what do you not understand about "in terms of what Detroit would have to give up'? I know that Carter makes more money than Ryan; I'm saying that Detroit would have to give up less in term of players/prospects to acquire him. Am I speaking in Latin? Carter would be the cheapest high-profile player available, again, in terms of what Detroit would have to give up. Would I rather have Ryan? Sure, and If Holland could make it happen and not have to sell the farm to do so, then by all means.

Secondly, Carter in not prone to injury. He's had 1 season in his first 6 were he played less that 70 games. Zetterberg had two. Carter has played in at least 80 game in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Kronwall, Filppula and Franzen have only played in at least 80 games once. You're going to have to define "injury prone"

Thirdly, You're right, no one can have any idea if any trade will work, but I think it would be worth the risk. And if you think one player can have a dramatic effect on a locker-room, especially a locker-room like Detroit's, you listen to the press too much. Polarizing players make great scapegoats if a team underachieves, but it is never one player. These are professional athletes and this THEE professional team. Carter can only make this team better. Nothing else.

We will obviously never see eye-to-eye on this: You see a selfish, lazy, 'injury-prone" prima donna, that will somehow destroy team chemistry. --- I see a player in need of a little guidance, who is a 30-50 goal scorer, and will drastically improve Detroit's chances of winning the Cup. Agree to disagree.


The only thing I disagree with you here in this post is that you saying " Carter can only make his team better" WE don't ow that....I am sure Columbus painted that picture with a broad stoke as well that they now regret so Ik disagree......BUT I agree we could use a pure goal scorer. I can certainly think of names who I would LOVE to have who bring what Carter "may" bring.
Agree to disagree....but entertaining banter!
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#57 kylee

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:38 PM

so people on LGW really think that a team in our division, that has been awful for nearly their entire existence, would trade Jeff Carter to us without getting either Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Franzen in the deal?

#58 dirtydangles

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

so people on LGW really think that a team in our division, that has been awful for nearly their entire existence, would trade Jeff Carter to us without getting either Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Franzen in the deal?


Ya, actually, I do. it didn't take a zetterberg or datsyuk for cbj to get him in the first place and his value has declined since then. also consider the contract that he is on and the difficulty that is involved in moving it. Realistically CBJ want some help on defence and a top 6 forward + our first rounder or a good prospect. if they wanted z or dats they would have to be adding big time. i think we have the pieces to get it done without blowing up our core. they will take the best deal available at this point (disregarding conference) considering they need to rebuild and are trying to get their max value back and minimize losses. but heck, thats just my opinion.

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#59 robb himself

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:17 PM

I'm not sure Kenny is going to do much that impacts the lineup this year. Sure he might add a complimentary piece like 4th line grinder or a 6-7 defenseman but I just don't think that's going to cut it this time. This team just gets too stale sometimes and that might be ok during the reg season but come playoff time it just won't do. If the power play goes cold like it is right now they'll be bounced in a heartbeat by a team like SJ or Van or Chi. As much as I respect Kenny and the brass of this team I think this year has to be attacked a little differently if they really want to push for the cup. All this being said if a true top 3 player is available (Nash, parise, stall etc... They really should look into making a move. I'm not sure Carter is the guy but if he can be had for maybe:

Jurco
Kindle
First rounder

For Carter

Then I think you go for it.



I see where you heads at...but I would much rather hang on to the current prospects we have (Jurco, Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Pulkkinen,Tatar, Tvrdon)...I just think there is too much potential in these guys to get rid of them to bring in a guy that we dont really need. I mean, we are 1st overall in the league right now, so to give up these prospects that are oozing with talent and potential would be a mistake in my opinion. I would however consider that trade if Sheahan were involved. For some reason im just not seeing the wow factor with this guy.

Maybe a deal like Kindl+Sheahan+Ferarro and a 2nd rounder...I dont know anyone with me on this?
be about it!

#60 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

CBJ is looking to improve now. Prospects with unknown NHL skill and fringe roster players will not land Carter. IMO the trade would start with a top six forward, and then those pieces would be added.

I'd take Carter for scraps (what many are proposing) but I prefer our top six players to him. Hudler can't be included because his contract is going to expire soon. Overall, I'm against Carter because of the cost and issues mentioned by other posters.





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