71 replies to this topic

[F.Michael]

Do you honestly believe Kenny and the Wings will make a significant move by the deadline?

"Significant" meaning a top 6 forward?..No.

But I do think there's a good chance of adding a 3rd/4th line forward with some size, and who won't back down from a scrap (Moen, and Gaustad).

[jfranzen]

We're trading John Keating and a 3rd round pick for the Red Wings truck.

[achildr1]

Who's to say that our players aren't getting better?

'

So you're saying he's arguably better than Rafalski? That sounds like a good thing.



We're ranked 5th in goals per game, yet we only have 1 top 20 goal scorer in the league. Sounds like we're getting production out of everyone.



Not even remotely true.



I'm pretty sure that Detroit has had the most regular season success out of every team the past 10 years. Just looked it up, they've won the President's Trophy 4 times in the last decade. No other team has won it twice within that span. Within those years the team that won the trophy made it to at least the conference finals 50% of the time.



Last year was the closest playoffs series ever played (as far as goal diff).



Drake is not the reason they won. Team defense, and Z and Dats playing superbly is the reason they won. Drake was nothing more than a nice story that has been blown way the f*** out of proportion.



I disagree.

I honestly don't have the time or energy to through all id like to right now but I will say this. Team defense, and consistant offense, was the main reason we won in '08. I think you missed, or didn't care to look at, how I said that a large portion of the team hadn't won yet. To me that's a huge reason. Zetterberg, Fil, Kronwall, etc hadn't won a Cup yet and id bet that is a huge deal in terms of that extra drive to win.

I don't care how "close" that San Jose series was. We lost the first three games and it was obvious we didn't turn on the jets until game 4. If anyone wants to say the Wings, as a team, put up a consistant effort over the last two play-off years...I would think you watching a different team. Datsyuk, Helm, and Howard were the only players that I thought busted it every game. Kronwall and Fil were close. Lidstrom actually showed his age.

If success was measured by the Conference finals than we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Were Cup or bust and our numbers this season mean nothing (other than qualifying for the playoffs). Remember 95-96? I bet 4 people thought we'd lose that year.

I admittingly haven't watched a ton of games this year, but what I have watched, Ericsson has been his normal, hockey senseless self. Even if he's improved he still earns about 1/3 of his contract.

How many of our players are getting better versus how many aren't or are regressing? Fil has gotten better but Zetterberg is playing maybe his worse hockey ever. Hudler is better but does he keep it up in the play-off when everybody is attacking at 110%? Miller is a little bit better but Helm isn't producing as much. Etc.

I would suggest White's upside, aside from the possibility of physical contribution, is at best right around what Rafalski brought and even if he brought a bit more its not like adding Brent Burns (without subtracting!).

The fact is San Jose has beat us the last two years, in the playoffs (because the regular season doesn't matter), and they went out and upgraded. I don't see the big change in our team from last year and therefore dont see why we should think that this team doesn't need an upgrade with a hungry, gritty player and/or a real 2nd line winger. I imagine there's a reason we've been linked to Moen and Ruutu. I know we're a real roller coaster group but remember how we felt, and posted, before game 4 last year? I do.

Edited by achildr1, 09 February 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[rick zombo]

I would suggest White's upside, aside from the possibility of physical contribution, is at best right around what Rafalski brought and even if he brought a bit more its not like adding Brent Burns (without subtracting!).

The fact is San Jose has beat us the last two years, in the playoffs (because the regular season doesn't matter), and they went out and upgraded. I don't see the big change in our team from last year and therefore dont see why we should think that this team doesn't need an upgrade with a hungry, gritty player and/or a real 2nd line winger. I imagine there's a reason we've been linked to Moen and Ruutu. I know we're a real roller coaster group but remember how we felt, and posted, before game 4 last year? I do.

To clarify, Burns cost SJ Setoguchi, a 1st, and Coyle. Sooooooo WTF????

Also, Moen's won a cup a recently as 2007. By your logic, what's the point trading for him if he's not a hungry cup-virgin?

[ogreslayer]

News out of Carolina this afternoon has Jim Rutherford saying that after meeting w/ Ruutu, he's going to try to re-sign him. Another supposed target for the Wings potentially off the market.

[Barrie]

Kenny will only make a move if it makes sense for the Wings. He won't make a move just to make a move.

[Red Crazy]

Ken Holland has said that he likes this team so what does that tell you? Ruutu might be off the list and I am not sold on going after Hemsky. He is just another player that won't shoot the puck and we don't need more of that. I can't see a big trade happening but rest assured any move Holland makes will make an impact.

[LeftWinger]

Who's to say that our players aren't getting better?

They are...well except a couple.

So you're saying he's arguably better than Rafalski? That sounds like a good thing.

He is arguably better than Rafalski, plus plays better defense.

We're ranked 5th in goals per game, yet we only have 1 top 20 goal scorer in the league. Sounds like we're getting production out of everyone.

Ya, hell, our bottom six is what is keeping this team ahead of everyone. It certainly ain't Franzen.

Not even remotely true.

He IS playing pretty bad sometimes. I wouldn't mind losing him and Kindl at the deadline.

Drake is not the reason they won. Team defense, and Z and Dats playing superbly is the reason they won. Drake was nothing more than a nice story that has been blown way the f*** out of proportion.

I agree. If yo need a side story to be motivated to win the Cup, then you really aren't that motivated. Problem is, the media attaches stories to teams (in all sports) that are making a Championship run and it usually doesn't get blown up until they have won. I like happy endings and feel good stories, but I prefer the team just be motivated to win it every single year! Hey here is a nice fell-good story that doesn't need a player added to the roster who hasn't won. When the Wings win the Cup or get to the Cup Final, they can use Brad McCrimmon as motivation or Salei or Liv or maybe even Bob Probert. They can win it for their families! That will make a great feel-good fuzzy story if the win, but you aren't gonna hear anything about it if they don't. Just win...period. Give 110% every night, every shift, every second. That's all I ask. Yes I am talking to you Franzen.

I disagree.

I do agree that there are some player(s) on this team that mail it in from time to time....

[LeftWinger]

I still want to see Morrow & Nabokov here for the playoffs...THEN sign Parise and Suter in the offseason. I know it will cost us roster player to get Morrow, but I am not too concerned about that since it won't cost us anyone who is above Hudler on the pecking order. If we could somehow acquire him without losing a roster player then great. That is my hope, but like most are saying, Holland is only gonna get someone if it helps the team. I hope he does.

[LeftWinger]

Basically, I am all for a trade that brings someone in that helps this team get over it's road woes. They aren't going to win out the rest of the games played at home and they aren't gonna win all their home playoff games. They are going to need to win on the road if they want the Cup. This team is inept on the road, only getting points recently by winning or losing a shootout. Sure they won 2 games over the western trip, but they were shootout wins. I know it's two points, but its a crappy way to get them, plus they were that close to losing all the games...

[Jeff6851]

Not motivated to win the Cup?

It's possibly their captain's last year in the NHL. The guy that's been playing for 20 years, the only captain some of these guys have ever known.

[irishock]

Morrow, please.

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

It's the same team that wasn't good enough the last 2 years, with a few tweaks. Howard is a championship calibre goalie now, we could use a few big forwards and then I say the skys the limit. Also staying healthy will be key, but if Holland stands pat regardless of 1st overall or not I think it'll be a mistake. Especially with all the cap space we have.

[achildr1]

To clarify, Burns cost SJ Setoguchi, a 1st, and Coyle. Sooooooo WTF????

Also, Moen's won a cup a recently as 2007. By your logic, what's the point trading for him if he's not a hungry cup-virgin?

I'm glad we didn't trade for Burns because of what it cost and we got White but White replaced a player of similar ability. Burns, a top league defenseman, was added for one roster player for this year, a 2nd line forward...major upgrade. San Jose needs to do that trade more than us because third time is going to end soon. But the lesson remains the same, for this season, San Jose made a major addition and we may have stayed the same. And they beat us the last two years, stands to reason they have an even better chance to do the same this play-off.

My whole point in my posts in this thread is that this is the same team that's played with little passion the last two years with consistent effort being shown by only a few and I don't really see how we're going to beat teams with more depth that seem to play like they really couldn't live with losing. Against SJ last year, we played like it wouldn't be a big deal if we lost the series. Thus, like this thread is all about, I think we need to make some deals.

Edited by achildr1, 09 February 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[GMRwings1983]

Just because we're first in the league doesn't mean we don't need improvement. Wings fans of all fans should know better. The last two times we had the best record in the West, the roster was better than this one.

We need another goal scorer in our top 6. That would help the powerplay. Wouldn't hurt to look at defensive depth or even a solid grinder with size on our bottom six. There's many ways we could improve really. Also, you have to realize that other contenders will improve their team. Holland can't sit around while those teams are getting better.

And we wouldn't match up well with the Sharks again. Being first wouldn't change that. It goes beyond just home ice advantage.

I'm glad we didn't trade for Burns because of what it cost and we got White but White replaced a player of similar ability. Burns, a top league defenseman, was added for one roster player for this year, a 2nd line forward...major upgrade. San Jose needs to do that trade more than us because third time is going to end soon. But the lesson remains the same, for this season, San Jose made a major addition and we may have stayed the same. And they beat us the last two years, stands to reason they have an even better chance to do the same this play-off.

My whole point in my posts in this thread is that this is the same team that's played with little passion the last two years with consistent effort being shown by only a few and I don't really see how we're going to beat teams with more depth that seem to play like they really couldn't live with losing. Against SJ last year, we played like it wouldn't be a big deal if we lost the series. Thus, like this thread is all about, I think we need to make some deals.

We'll hit them in the head with our Presidents Trophy!

Not motivated to win the Cup?

It's possibly their captain's last year in the NHL. The guy that's been playing for 20 years, the only captain some of these guys have ever known.

Nice try, but you could have said the same about last season. For all we knew Lidstrom was retiring.

That argument holds no water. Other teams are motivated as well. Other teams without Cup rings.

[FunkedUp]

Holland says that he likes our team and that nothing major is in the works, which means that something major is in the works. What ever it is, it will be something that no one is thinking of. This years trade deadline will surprise all of us. If Holland was going to make a rinky-dink move, then he would be saying how we need another puck moving defenseman or some sandpaper to add depth.

[AceInTheSleeve]

We replaced Brian Rafalski with a player who, even in a career year, is arguably not as good as Rafalski.

Besides the point that you don't really ever replace a talent like Rafalski, White is having a great season and consider this: Ian White has a $3M cap hit, Rafalski was $6M. I'd say if White was making $6M you might have an argument here.

Our other addition is a borderline 6th defenseman, who is a terrible fighter and and even more terrible skater in Commodore.

Commodore is our 7th Dman, and has been playing solid and simple hockey. For a 7th Dman you cannot ask for more. His only game with a minus record was a -1 against CBJ (he wasnt even a minus player during the pre-all star weekend MTL debacle, and he played over 14 minutes that game - his highest TOI in a game this season)

Zetterberg is playing like he's 40

Hank is having an off season, Ive noticed his speed is lacking but he is still strong as ever on the puck. He leads the team in shots, but they just aren't going in for him right now. I think his last 2 games Hank really turned up the intensity and I'd be very surprised if he wasn't ready to compete during the playoffs. If this is a glimpse of Z at 40 years old then we should all be very thankful.

Bertuzzi is not a top six forward

Bertuzzi has the 6th most points on the team out of our forward lineup, I don't know how you define 'top six' but to me this is one way. Not to mention he has been playing with great chemistry on the line with Pav and Mule. I say keep him in the top 6 lineup, it's working for Bert.

our bottom six forwards have the least potential for offense of any Wings team in 15 years

Helm, Abdelkader, Miller, Mursak, Eaves, Nyquist, Emmerton, and Conner? Ive been seeing some amazing talent and potential from our bottom pool of forwards, infact I think we are deeper than we have ever been in 15 years and our forward prospects are swimming in potential! I don't know what games you've been watching.

our backup goalie may be the worst goalie in the league right now.

Yeah, but Howard is top 5 in the league. JMac has been solid for us the last few games with Howard out too so I see no need to panic over Conklin's shortcomings.

Cleary, Helm, Holmstrom have all regressed.

Cleary - arguably. although I remember ken and mick said cleary has been suffering from an injury for the last while.
Helm - no.
Homer - 5on5: perhaps, special teams: no

Ericsson is as horrible as ever.

Ericsson is actually showing a lot of confidence out there and I think hes improving with every game, hes +16 right now which is a record pace for him. Hardly as horrible as ever.

Remember, we won the cup with Lebda in the lineup in 08. Is Ericsson worse than Lebda?

Edited by AceInTheSleeve, 09 February 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Jeff6851]

Nice try, but you could have said the same about last season. For all we knew Lidstrom was retiring.

That argument holds no water. Other teams are motivated as well. Other teams without Cup rings.

This team is better than last year. Rafalski was playing on one leg, Howard wasn't anywhere near as good, Lidstrom wasn't playing as well and Datsyuk was still hurting from a bad wrist. Zetterberg missed the entire first round with an injury

[brett]

first year in awhile where i feel holland will make a move. maybe not a blockbuster but something

[NBCnothingbutcrosby]

Trade Cleary for a bag of pucks.

Send picks/ Brendan Smith/ Tatar to Columbus for Rick Nash = Cup