The Abdelkader hate

[newfy 695]

I see that a lot of people call Abdelkader useless and extremely mediocre etc. But I dont really get it. For starters, he provides something this team lacks. Hes not a great fighter but at least hes willing and has become a solid middleweight, hes leading the team in fight majors this year. Hes the only consistently physical forward and leads the forwards in hits, second on the team behind Stuart. Second in the forward group for blocked shots, and has a 52% faceoff rate.

On top of that, from playing pretty much the entire year on the fourth line he has 1 less point then Helm and only 4 less than Miller. Not to mention the age difference between Abby and Miller

Why do we see this Abdelkader hate and everyone loves the other 2 so much? Did everyone have their hopes up for the next Mccarty fighting every other night or something and now they dont like him cause he got their hopes up (GMR lol)? Someone wanna help me out with this?

[jollymania 162]

helm is a far better hitter and all around player and miller has been clutch all year, abdelkader really is like a poor mans ott or clutterbuck, if he wants people to pay attention to him he has to go all out.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

helm is a far better hitter and all around player and miller has been clutch all year, abdelkader really is like a poor mans ott or clutterbuck, if he wants people to pay attention to him he has to go all out.

How is Helm a far better hitter? I cannot recall many big hits he has thrown since becoming an NHL regular. He was a big hitter as a call-up years ago, but he is not anymore. Despite his injury, Helm has more minutes on ice than Abby and still is 30+ hits behind. Abby has had many big hits this year, Helm has not.

Further, other than speed, how exactly is Helm a better all around player? See that stats Newfy posted. Helm is very noticeable because of his speed, but how does that make him an 'all around better player' if that speed doesn't translate to the other areas of his play?

Abby has spent much of the year on the fourth line with Emmerton and Homer, while Helm has played much of the year with Cleary. Cleary has regularly produced 40 points, while Homer and Emmerton aren't nearly as relevant offensively 5v5.

IMO this post is evident of the general feeling about Abby. He has more hits/min than anyone on the team, he has as many or more points/min as Helm, he has a better FO percentage than Helm, he fights, and he has a better plus-minus than Helm. I'm not saying he's better, but how exactly is Helm at another level, outside of speed, if he isn't on another level with regards to any stat outside of minutes/game?

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

Nothing wrong with Abby. I personally believe Abby will only get better in time. Good head on his shoulders and should do what most 4th/3rd line guys do. Solid on the PK, hit's, forechecks pretty good, and sometimes chips in on goals. Certain energy he brings to the game along with Helm imo. I personally never had anything against Miller. He's always been meh but when producing you can't complain. I know some people would rather have someone else in his spot but I in Kenny and Babs I trust.

I like both Abbby, Helm and Miller all the same and thankful they are on our team.

Edited February 11, 2012 by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

As I've said before, I liked him better when he was first called up and tried to hit everything that moved. He's not a bad player for us, but we can get a better version of Abdelkader easily.

And I'm still upset about his 0 points in 11 playoff games last season and all the dumb penalties he took.

Bottom line for me, is that other than Helm, none of our 4th liners are guys I "absolutely" think we need to keep long term. If we keep Abby, so be it, and if not, we can replace him just fine.

[newfy 695]

helm is a far better hitter and all around player and miller has been clutch all year, abdelkader really is like a poor mans ott or clutterbuck, if he wants people to pay attention to him he has to go all out.

See thats not right though. I gotta agree with workingovertime here, youre just proving that theres no real seasoning behind it. Hes definitely not a far better hitter, Abdelkader is much more consistent physically and also a heavier hitter. Helm is no slouch physically but Abdelkader throws harder hits and throws them more often.

Helm has speed for sure and is a great PKer, but Abdelkader isnt far behind on the PK and I would say is better defensively 5 on 5 for sure. He is always back helping out the D. He was also made the second line center in the playoffs last year to shut down Doan against the Yotes and he did a great job.

Has Miller been that much more clutch? Hes scored some goals this year sure, but he has a total of 4 more points while playing on the third line with Cleary. Miller has been pretty invisible when the playoffs role around but somehow he has the "clutch" factor on Abdelkader lol.. Youre just proving how there is no basis in the Abdelkader hate.

GMR: I can agree with that sentiment of yours as well. But I would say if this team is lacking in toughness why would you want to get rid of Abdelkader? Instead why wouldnt you just bring in another version of Abdelkader and play them together?

[Motown4013 350]

As I've said before, I liked him better when he was first called up and tried to hit everything that moved. He's not a bad player for us, but we can get a better version of Abdelkader easily.

And I'm still upset about his 0 points in 11 playoff games last season and all the dumb penalties he took.

Bottom line for me, is that other than Helm, none of our 4th liners are guys I "absolutely" think we need to keep long term. If we keep Abby, so be it, and if not, we can replace him just fine.

Good point. The last few games I have felt that Abby has increased his energy and drive but to be honest, he has lacked a lot of hunger this year in comparison to when he 1st came up. Miller looks so strong on the puck and so willing to do it all..and it shiws- he is having a career year. I think it's common for young guys to assume they don't need to try as hard once they "have made it". I'd like to see him play some gritty, spirited hockey........then I'll start some props for him.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

As I've said before, I liked him better when he was first called up and tried to hit everything that moved. He's not a bad player for us, but we can get a better version of Abdelkader easily.

And I'm still upset about his 0 points in 11 playoff games last season and all the dumb penalties he took.

Bottom line for me, is that other than Helm, none of our 4th liners are guys I "absolutely" think we need to keep long term. If we keep Abby, so be it, and if not, we can replace him just fine.

GMR, I'd think you would know more than most on this board that team toughness isn't built around just one or two players. Trading Abby for Moen (or someone like him) only makes the team marginally tougher. However, having both increases the Wings' toughness greatly.

Good point. The last few games I have felt that Abby has increased his energy and drive but to be honest, he has lacked a lot of hunger this year in comparison to when he 1st came up. Miller looks so strong on the puck and so willing to do it all..and it shiws- he is having a career year. I think it's common for young guys to assume they don't need to try as hard once they "have made it". I'd like to see him play some gritty, spirited hockey........then I'll start some props for him.

I agree about Abby, but I think that equally applies to Helm. Both have 'stepped off the gas' since we first saw them a few years ago. In their defense, playing recklessly and all-out for a few minutes each playoff game is much easier than playing the same way for every game over an 82 game season.

IMO Miller's success is due to his hockey sense. Most of his goals could be scored by most on the team, but not all players would be in the correct position to score those goals. His hockey sense elevates his relatively mediocre skill-set.

Does whoever negged my last post care to post why? I don't think anything I posted was incorrect.

[Kerjuxaxaxa 6]

I hope he got rid of stupid habit taking bad penalties like last year against SJ.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Apple Fritters was better his first stint with the big club because he played like he is now. Abby needs to hit and play with an edge, otherwise he is useless.

And yes, I can recall a lot more bone crunching hits from Helm, than I can of Abby.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Apple Fritters was better his first stint with the big club because he played like he is now. Abby needs to hit and play with an edge, otherwise he is useless.

And yes, I can recall a lot more bone crunching hits from Helm, than I can of Abby.

Can you share any videos of those hits from this season? I can't remember many. Helm was a great hitter when he was first called up, but he hasnt been nearly as physical since. Despite having less total time on ice, Abby has around 1.5 times as many hits as Helm.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Yeah, we'd be tougher if we got a Moen and kept Abby.

I was just saying that if we have to move him in order to get a better version of him, I'm sold.

[lomekian 201]

Abdelkader is a bigger and possibly better hitter than helm, but because of his speed helm is often a more effective hitter, in terms of the next phase of play. I think Abdelkader has better hands, but hasn't quite worked out how to use his skillset in the same way as helm and, as was mentioned, Miller have. Helm knows what he has and squeezes what he can out of elite wheels, decent positioning and mediocre hands. Miller is just smarter at knowing where to be to capitalise despite his fairly mediocre skillset. 'Kader still has time to develop in relation to miller particularly, but at present needs to play at 100% to really make an impact.

[hooon 1,089]

I like Abby.

[Majsheppard 203]

I love almost our entire team, and the couple guys I don't love... are just because of their contracts.

Really, everyone seems to be playing at a level you would expect for their role.

I just would like to see some of the top end guys improve, but I believe it is more because we have a few too many tweeners. Guys that are a bit too good for the third line, and not good enough for the 2nd.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Can you share any videos of those hits from this season? I can't remember many. Helm was a great hitter when he was first called up, but he hasnt been nearly as physical since. Despite having less total time on ice, Abby has around 1.5 times as many hits as Helm.

This season? He's had a couple more than Abby. Over his career, he's had way more. Think back to last playoffs when Helm was lighting everyone up. I like Abby, and I was the one who coined the nickname Apple Fritters for him, but he really does need to show a lot more consistency to be as effective as him and the Miller line have shown in the past few games.

[redwingfan19 293]

Power Forwards take longer to develop, Abby will come around. He's showing flashes of his potential recently.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

This season? He's had a couple more than Abby. Over his career, he's had way more. Think back to last playoffs when Helm was lighting everyone up. I like Abby, and I was the one who coined the nickname Apple Fritters for him, but he really does need to show a lot more consistency to be as effective as him and the Miller line have shown in the past few games.

Again, please show me videos of these big hits from this year. I can find many for Abby this season. There is a reason Abby is credited for 1.5 times as many hits, and it isn't because he is less physical.

If a third or fourth liner was consistent, he likely wouldn't be a third or fourth liner. Abby has managed one point less than Helm despite less overall ice time. He has also managed more hits and blocked shots. I only mention Helm because we all (most of us) assume he is fixture in the bottom six. I don't see the Abby hate when he performs as good or better in almost every statistical category despite having less overall ice time.

[newfy 695]

This season? He's had a couple more than Abby. Over his career, he's had way more. Think back to last playoffs when Helm was lighting everyone up. I like Abby, and I was the one who coined the nickname Apple Fritters for him, but he really does need to show a lot more consistency to be as effective as him and the Miller line have shown in the past few games.

Over his career I can agree with. When Helm came up for playoffs especially his only job was to run around full speed and hit everything, he was good at it but it also left him out of position. He could run around like that because of his speed. WIth less ice time this year Abdelkader has had more big hits fairly easily I think. Thats because Helm knows he has to play smarter positionally now and cant run around out of position. I think Abbys skill with his hitting is that he can line guys up without that speed and stay in position.

This year Abby is definitely ahead in the hitting department

[Konnan511 1,736]

Again, please show me videos of these big hits from this year. I can find many for Abby this season. There is a reason Abby is credited for 1.5 times as many hits, and it isn't because he is less physical.

If a third or fourth liner was consistent, he likely wouldn't be a third or fourth liner. Abby has managed one point less than Helm despite less overall ice time. He has also managed more hits and blocked shots. I only mention Helm because we all (most of us) assume he is fixture in the bottom six. I don't see the Abby hate when he performs as good or better in almost every statistical category despite having less overall ice time.

Because we expect more of Abby. I expect more of him.

And there aren't videos of everything either. I love Abby, but if he played with the same intensity he has the past few games, but over the entire season you'd see a lot more fans loving him rather than "hating" him. I want Abby to succeed, and to do that he needs to keep playing the way he has been lately.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Abdelkader is most effective when he plays like he has lately. I wasn't impressed with his performance in the playoffs last year, though. Nobody is expecting him to put up a point per game, but in order to go deep in the playoffs, your role players need to play a hard-nosed game, while chipping in offensively, on occasion. Additionally, they need to play a disciplined game, which Abby was guilty of not doing last year.

As far as Miller goes, I had my doubts there for a while, but he has really developed into a decent all-around bottom 6 player. No, he isn't very physical, but he has a great sense for the game. The puck has really seemed to find him in the right place lately. Ken would be an idiot to get rid of him with the way he has been playing lately.

I'd still like to see us beef up a little more for the playoff run. I have a feeling Detroit won't be the only team looking at Travis Moen, though. San Jose needs to bulk up, same with Vancouver. The Canucks may not need to look for outside help, though. If Byron Bitz and/or Mike Duco can prove they can play a solid hard-nosed role, the Canucks could be pretty quiet at the deadline.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

He is still in need of a little guidance.

[55fan 5,133]

Remember, Abby? It's across the ice, out the zamboni entrance, down the hall, third door. It's the one with the guy on it, not the one with the person in a dress. Those ladies were a bit upset last time, so make sure you get the right one, ok? You know, maybe Nick should take you when he finishes his drink.

Sorry, I like Abby too, but the spirit moved me to do that.

Edited February 12, 2012 by 55fan

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Because we expect more of Abby. I expect more of him.

And there aren't videos of everything either. I love Abby, but if he played with the same intensity he has the past few games, but over the entire season you'd see a lot more fans loving him rather than "hating" him. I want Abby to succeed, and to do that he needs to keep playing the way he has been lately.

I expect a lot from Abby too. I think he should be able to match Cleary's offensive production from the last few years. With that said, I don't expect him to produce 40 points playing with Emmerton and Homer. Despite my expectations, I don't understand the 'hate' when he is producing as much as the players a line above him despite having worse line-mates and less ice time.

Doing a quick search on YouTube, there are some Helm hits from this year, but none are as 'big' as Abby's hits on Pääjärvi-Svensson and Hall this season. Helm can hit, but Abby hits more frequently and with more force.

[dobbles 252]

honestly i think it was just that he had a slow start this year. now that he is playing better, he is just starting to shake the negative perception many fans had. his awful playoffs last year combined with a slow start got him in a lot of peoples doghouses IMO.

also, regarding all the toughness and hitting, personally, i felt the first couple months abby was not hitting much of anything. i think the last few weeks though as the 4th line has hit its stride more, thats when the points started coming a little faster and his confidence and physical game picked up as well.

personally, i hope abby continues to play well and makes the bottom 6 a force to be reckoned with.