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kerism17

Tomas Tatar

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Why is Tomas Tatar so high on our list of top prospects? Many people think he is our top forward prospect and I just dont get it at all.

I think Tatar should be behind Gustav Nyquist for sure, and also behind Teemu Pulkkinen, Calle Jarnkrok and Tomas Jurco, and even behind Jan Mursak in my opinion. I just really dont see why everyone thinks this guy is going to be so good. Someone please explain what is so great about this kid.

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Why is Tomas Tatar so high on our list of top prospects? Many people think he is our top forward prospect and I just dont get it at all.

I think Tatar should be behind Gustav Nyquist for sure, and also behind Teemu Pulkkinen, Calle Jarnkrok and Tomas Jurco, and even behind Jan Mursak in my opinion. I just really dont see why everyone thinks this guy is going to be so good. Someone please explain what is so great about this kid.

He deserves to be high on the list but anyone that has him above Nyquist or Jarnkrok just dont have knowledge of prospects.

As for Pulkkinen, definitely not above Tatar. Jurco is close, but Tatar has shown he can play in the NHL and is much closer to a full time job there while Jurco has had one great season in the q. Jurco is definitely moving up the list quickly however.

Tatar has good speed, is very competitive and willing to go into traffic despite his size. He has a pretty good offensive package, but not amazing. He looks like he should be a solid second line winger which is pretty good `50 points

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He is behind Gustav. After that there's a log jam of guys who proved they can dominate the junior game, can dominate college kids and can dominate other foreigners. Tatar had proven at 18 he can play with men and play well. That's where his hype has come from. He is fast with a gnarly shot. and built like a mini tank.

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as someone who doesn't live in detroit any longer, it's great to get informed opinions on these prospects from you guys.

it's often hard to get good info and hockey's future can be waaay off about guys sometimes.

I was thinking the same thing. I enjoy getting an inside scoop on the log jam.

T-Ruff and Vladifan like this

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Why is Tomas Tatar so high on our list of top prospects? Many people think he is our top forward prospect and I just dont get it at all.

I think Tatar should be behind Gustav Nyquist for sure, and also behind Teemu Pulkkinen, Calle Jarnkrok and Tomas Jurco, and even behind Jan Mursak in my opinion. I just really dont see why everyone thinks this guy is going to be so good. Someone please explain what is so great about this kid.

Obviously you have never seen him play. He is a St. Louis clone. He has a sniper shot and is fleet of foot. Plays bigger than he is, and has a head for the game. He is behind Nyquvist because of age, but is ahead of the other three you speak of... Even though all three of the prospects could end up being better players in the long run. Out of our forward prospects I would list Tatar second behind Gustav or third behind Calle. I still say when you are looking at them, you have to take in account of who they are playing.

I know it is hard to tell when looking at a stat sheet... but then again Tatar has been playing against much harder competition in the AHL. Tatar is playing professionals. Going up against the NHL prospects.

The kid is still a kid, and yet he is one of three players in our system that is ready to play in the NHL right now. I just don't get how you can look at a stable full of excellent horses and say this one is worthless because these other ones are winning more easy races.

Edited by Majsheppard
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Tatar has enjoyed a lot of hype even before Nyquist, if I recall correctly. Tatar has had steady development and wowed the front office more than any of our other forward picks at the time. I think he had one so-so season in GR but he's still slated to be a top 6 prospect, many think a top 3. I don't watch the prospects that closely, but the only reason Tatar has faded off the radar a bit is because of the hard on people have for Nyquist (not cutting Nyquist down at all, but I was always more aware of Tatar than Nyquist), but he's still going to be an impact player in a couple years.

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Obviously you have never seen him play. He is a St. Louis clone. He has a sniper shot and is fleet of foot. Plays bigger than he is, and has a head for the game. He is behind Nyquvist because of age, but is ahead of the other three you speak of... Even though all three of the prospects could end up being better players in the long run. Out of our forward prospects I would list Tatar second behind Gustav or third behind Calle. I still say when you are looking at them, you have to take in account of who they are playing.

I know it is hard to tell when looking at a stat sheet... but then again Tatar has been playing against much harder competition in the AHL. Tatar is playing professionals. Going up against the NHL prospects.

The kid is still a kid, and yet he is one of three players in our system that is ready to play in the NHL right now. I just don't get how you can look at a stable full of excellent horses and say this one is worthless because these other ones are winning more easy races.

I have actually seen him along with most of our prospects play a lot and I'm really not overly impressed with Tatar at all. I honestly dont see him as a player any better than what Hudler has given us.

Are you kidding? A Martin St. Louis clone? Wow.. If he can become 1/10 the player St. Louis has been in the NHL I would be extremely impressed. Just not going to happen.

I Would be willing to bet that in 5 years time all of the other prospects I mentions will be huge impact players in the NHL (hopefully with the Red Wings) and Tatar will either be traded or the new whipping boy.

I hope some of the other GMs in the league think as highly of him as you and some others do, and we can package him in a deal to get a real sniper at the deadline.

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as someone who doesn't live in detroit any longer, it's great to get informed opinions on these prospects from you guys.

it's often hard to get good info and hockey's future can be waaay off about guys sometimes.

. A great source to check out our future is. Hockeysfuture.com.

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. A great source to check out our future is. Hockeysfuture.com.

Redwingscentral.com is better.

But then balance that a little bit with the Red Wings prospects forum at HFboards.com.

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I have actually seen him along with most of our prospects play a lot and I'm really not overly impressed with Tatar at all. I honestly dont see him as a player any better than what Hudler has given us.

Are you kidding? A Martin St. Louis clone? Wow.. If he can become 1/10 the player St. Louis has been in the NHL I would be extremely impressed. Just not going to happen.

I Would be willing to bet that in 5 years time all of the other prospects I mentions will be huge impact players in the NHL (hopefully with the Red Wings) and Tatar will either be traded or the new whipping boy.

I hope some of the other GMs in the league think as highly of him as you and some others do, and we can package him in a deal to get a real sniper at the deadline.

Okay, but St Louis didn't break out until he was what? I had to go look it up but it was 28. He had his first big year getting .85 PPG when he was 27-28. He had his first AHL action at 22 where he got 26 pts in 25 games. Tatar at 21 years of age is at .75 ppg 46 games in... Pretty close so far... actually Tatar is ahead of St Louis' development. The big difference is Tatar is taller and weighs the same, which means he can pack on some muscles.

You just are sooooo sure that he isn't going to be anything though... Even though your first post was all about wanting to know about him because you don't follow his progression?!?

I am sorry, but there is something wrong with that and I hope you don't hold it against me if I don't go to you for my scouting needs. I just can't figure how you can ask why he is so good, then get told why only to respond with complete indifference. Sounds like you are just flaming against the guy for no reason if you respond to some info with a basic, you are wrong.

Am I saying he is St Louis? No, but he plays a similar game. I am pretty sure he will get more than 1/10th of the output of St Louis which would be about 83 career pts. Oh yeah he already has 82 pts left to go, and he would be at worst another Hudler. He has 200 pts nearly. Tatar has already shown himself to be more willing to go to the dirty areas of the ice and be willing to get the dirty goals along with more skill to get the slick ones. He isn't there yet, but he is already so ahead of the curve.

Edited by Majsheppard

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Living in Grand Rapids I have seen many Griffins games the past few years. IMO Tatar has never really stood out to me as a star player, especially now seeing Nyquist play. He's not a bad player by any means, just doesn't seem to impact the game in the same ways that Nyquist does so that is why he is below Nyquist as far as prospects go. Considering we have plenty of upcoming propects and everyone seems to be pretty high on Tatar as a prospect around the league, I wouldn't be opposed to looking to trade him in a package for a sniper at wing. Obviously it depends on who would be coming our way in the trade, but I just don't see Tatar being a top line player in his career!

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I just don't see Tatar being a top line player in his career!

Well what about a player who plays in the top six for an unquestionable majority of the year?

It's tough because if you look at the current Wings roster in terms of players who play in the top six for the past few years, only Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen have played there for the whole season. The rest have all spent some fairly significant time in the bottom six.

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Redwingscentral.com is better.

But then balance that a little bit with the Red Wings prospects forum at HFboards.com.

Redwingcentral is nice as far getting info on our youth no doubt. I like hockey's future cause I like to look at other teams prospects as well.

Example the young Russian kid for the caps is gonna be special when he makes his NHL debut .

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You just are sooooo sure that he isn't going to be anything though... Even though your first post was all about wanting to know about him because you don't follow his progression?!?

I am sorry, but there is something wrong with that and I hope you don't hold it against me if I don't go to you for my scouting needs. I just can't figure how you can ask why he is so good, then get told why only to respond with complete indifference. Sounds like you are just flaming against the guy for no reason if you respond to some info with a basic, you are wrong.

Ok, when did i once say I didnt know about him and I didnt follow his progression? I was saying I know a lot about him and I have followed him and all of our other top prospects. I just dont see him anywhere near the top in our prospect pool. I wanted opinions and I'm listening to your opinion just like I listen to everyone elses I just dont agree with you at all. I wasnt asking why he is good, I was asking why he is viewed as being good, because I just don't see it. I didnt once say you are wrong, yes I disagree with you but you may very well be right on with your opinion, I just cant see this kid being anything more than a 3rd/4th line player.

You're trying to compare him to St. Louis, that is crazy. I dont care how long it took St. Louis to break out, because we all know what a late bloomer this guy was. Very few people ever thought he was ever going to make it to the NHL let alone be the player he is today, because of his size. And he never was drafted but you cannot compare this young kid from Slovakia to future Hall of Famer, Martin "Iron Man" St. Louis.

I was exaggerating when i said he wouldnt be 1/10 the player St. Louis is but honestly I wouldnt be surprised if this kid puts up somewhere around those numbers for a few half seasons between the NHL and AHL then finds his way back over to Europe.

I really hope Im wrong about this kid, I hope he gives us anything that St. Louis has given the Lightning. If this guy can be a top line assist machine feeding the likes of Teemu Pulkkinen with the shot this guy has, Id be extremely pleased to say the least...

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It's funny how people aren't beleivers in tatar cause how hes played in grand rapids. Isn't he second in team scoring for the grifs. Let's go look at the current wings that have graduated and made the wings roster. Daren helm,abedlkader. Last I checked. Neither pf these guys put up huge numbers at all in the minors. Both made the wings team for other reasons. Helm his speed. Abs for his physical game. Wings draft players for there true needs. I think Tatar two way game will payoff eventually. shhh put him on a line wIth a playmaker the kid will put up points.

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Redwingcentral is nice as far getting info on our youth no doubt. I like hockey's future cause I like to look at other teams prospects as well.

Example the young Russian kid for the caps is gonna be special when he makes his NHL debut .

Well many other teams have their own version of redwingscentral too iirc. Hockeysfuture in my mind is a good source for quick tidbits but I'm a details person and in that regard, they're quite crude from my perception.

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. A great source to check out our future is. Hockeysfuture.com.

In the post you quoted, he literally said he didn't like HFboards lol.

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Ok, when did i once say I didnt know about him and I didnt follow his progression? I was saying I know a lot about him and I have followed him and all of our other top prospects. I just dont see him anywhere near the top in our prospect pool. I wanted opinions and I'm listening to your opinion just like I listen to everyone elses I just dont agree with you at all. I wasnt asking why he is good, I was asking why he is viewed as being good, because I just don't see it. I didnt once say you are wrong, yes I disagree with you but you may very well be right on with your opinion, I just cant see this kid being anything more than a 3rd/4th line player.

You're trying to compare him to St. Louis, that is crazy. I dont care how long it took St. Louis to break out, because we all know what a late bloomer this guy was. Very few people ever thought he was ever going to make it to the NHL let alone be the player he is today, because of his size. And he never was drafted but you cannot compare this young kid from Slovakia to future Hall of Famer, Martin "Iron Man" St. Louis.

The comparison is in how they play the game. Search the internet... you will find many comparisons in game play. Does that mean he will finish as much as St Louis? Not necessarily... but if he lives up to potential he could. The point in comparing their NHL paths is to make you realize IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL! Yet it isn't too soon to realize you want to see where he goes.

As for you thinking he is only a 3rd or 4th liner... that is a joke to me. Hudler plays on our second line with Bertuzi from time to time. Tatar if called up right now would be a fourth liner... Just like Pav and Zetter were for a year or so... as depth. You see, players have to get used to the speed and the system, as well as develop chemistry.

You remember that guy Franzen? People didn't see that developing the way it did, and he put in his dues on the lower levels and lower lines then earned his spot. Tatar will do the same, not saying he will be on par with Johan but that he will have to earn it. You are sure he won't be anything like I am sure you would have been with Johan. Take some time, take some patience to let the guys prove themselves. There are so many examples on our team alone for you to think twice before saying what you are saying. Yet you won't give the chance to the FASTEST prospect in a decade to prove himself ready for the AHL?!?!?!

HOW DO YOU NOT FIND THAT CRAZY?!?! He proved to the pro scouts that his 18 year old game was good enough for the rung right below the NHL... I would assume you would want to at least wait to see what his value would be when his body is age appropriate for the AHL AT LEAST!

With his skill set and the right amount of muscle and hustle, he could be a ppg player in the NHL. COULD BE.

You don't trade that upside without serious reservations and a clear upgrade. I don't see anyone that Tatar could be trade for in a package that would be the kind of upgrade to validate his loss and the other team would take.

Creating threads about wanting to know about a kid, then refusing what you hear back and suggesting you want him traded... just be honest... you have no clue about him and don't really care you just want to hear that we could move him for a big name. I don't think it is happening, nor would it be wise to move a first, a second, and him for one guy.

Tatar might be the real deal, as is Jurco. They were a first and second respectively. You want to get rid of Jurco, Tatar, and another Tatar perhaps in value? Trust in the scouts. They are doing a good job. Otherwise you might eat a ton of crow if Tatar were to become the next Pavel or Henrik or Johan. It is possible, because at his age neither were exactly world beaters either. They were just kids with a nack for the game and upside trapped in young bodies and lacking experience. Just like Tatar, and only time will tell if he follows the same path. We do know to this point he is walking the line extremely well.

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I'll explain why without going into stats. The fact Tatar is NHL ready is what makes him ranked above Calle, Teemu and others. Nobody knows if those others will even be NHLers yet, just b/c you dominate lower leagues, doesn't mean you are going to call all the way.

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The comparison is in how they play the game. Search the internet... you will find many comparisons in game play. Does that mean he will finish as much as St Louis? Not necessarily... but if he lives up to potential he could. The point in comparing their NHL paths is to make you realize IT IS TOO SOON TO TELL! Yet it isn't too soon to realize you want to see where he goes.

As for you thinking he is only a 3rd or 4th liner... that is a joke to me. Hudler plays on our second line with Bertuzi from time to time. Tatar if called up right now would be a fourth liner... Just like Pav and Zetter were for a year or so... as depth. You see, players have to get used to the speed and the system, as well as develop chemistry.

You remember that guy Franzen? People didn't see that developing the way it did, and he put in his dues on the lower levels and lower lines then earned his spot. Tatar will do the same, not saying he will be on par with Johan but that he will have to earn it. You are sure he won't be anything like I am sure you would have been with Johan. Take some time, take some patience to let the guys prove themselves. There are so many examples on our team alone for you to think twice before saying what you are saying. Yet you won't give the chance to the FASTEST prospect in a decade to prove himself ready for the AHL?!?!?!

HOW DO YOU NOT FIND THAT CRAZY?!?! He proved to the pro scouts that his 18 year old game was good enough for the rung right below the NHL... I would assume you would want to at least wait to see what his value would be when his body is age appropriate for the AHL AT LEAST!

With his skill set and the right amount of muscle and hustle, he could be a ppg player in the NHL. COULD BE.

You don't trade that upside without serious reservations and a clear upgrade. I don't see anyone that Tatar could be trade for in a package that would be the kind of upgrade to validate his loss and the other team would take.

Creating threads about wanting to know about a kid, then refusing what you hear back and suggesting you want him traded... just be honest... you have no clue about him and don't really care you just want to hear that we could move him for a big name. I don't think it is happening, nor would it be wise to move a first, a second, and him for one guy.

Tatar might be the real deal, as is Jurco. They were a first and second respectively. You want to get rid of Jurco, Tatar, and another Tatar perhaps in value? Trust in the scouts. They are doing a good job. Otherwise you might eat a ton of crow if Tatar were to become the next Pavel or Henrik or Johan. It is possible, because at his age neither were exactly world beaters either. They were just kids with a nack for the game and upside trapped in young bodies and lacking experience. Just like Tatar, and only time will tell if he follows the same path. We do know to this point he is walking the line extremely well.

You know only something like 18-20% of players that are drafted play more than 200 games in the NHL. That is extremely low, and Im willing to bet that only about 10% of the players reach their full potential expected of them when they come into the league. Point is, that pretty much every player that is drafted is compared to a big name player. Does that mean that is the player they will become? Hell no, it simply means they have a similar style of play. That comparison is usually their ceiling but most of the players that come into the league don't play up to these high expectations. It would be impossible seeming how so many players get such rave reviews, and because of this fans like yourself think every player that comes up through the system is going to be the next big thing and we cannot part with any of our prospects.

Id like to know where you heard Tatar is supposed to be like Martin St. Louis? I've heard many comparable players, none of which were St. Louis. Ive heard Milan Hejduk and Peter Bondra amoung others but that doesnt mean this kid is going to be the next any of these players, it just means they play a similar game. I would love to have a young Hejduk, Bondra, or St. Louis coming up but the chances of that being the case is slim, so to part with a few of our mediocre prospects for a couple proven players would work for me.

You dont even read my posts. You keep saying that I "wanted to know about Tatar" I never once said that I wanted to know about him, I want to know why there are so many fans that think he is the next big thing coming up the pipe, because I dont think he is at all. We have much better prospects in our system.

I dont know you, I dont know how much you know about hockey, and I dont know how much you follow the Wings, just like you know nothing about me. I can tell you though, I dont miss a Wings game and I watch most Griffins games and Ive also watched quite a few Sea Dogs games. Ive watched around 40 Griffins games, 10 or so Sea Dogs games, as well as most of the World Juniors, so dont try to tell me I dont have a clue about him, I bet Ive seen him and most of our top prospects play a hell of a lot more than you have. Yes hes a good player but I dont love what I see in him. I see a lot more skill and potential in some of our other prospects. And THAT is what THIS topic was about.

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Why is Tomas Tatar so high on our list of top prospects? Many people think he is our top forward prospect and I just dont get it at all.

I think Tatar should be behind Gustav Nyquist for sure, and also behind Teemu Pulkkinen, Calle Jarnkrok and Tomas Jurco, and even behind Jan Mursak in my opinion. I just really dont see why everyone thinks this guy is going to be so good. Someone please explain what is so great about this kid.

He deserves to be high on the list but anyone that has him above Nyquist or Jarnkrok just dont have knowledge of prospects.

As for Pulkkinen, definitely not above Tatar. Jurco is close, but Tatar has shown he can play in the NHL and is much closer to a full time job there while Jurco has had one great season in the q. Jurco is definitely moving up the list quickly however.

Tatar has good speed, is very competitive and willing to go into traffic despite his size. He has a pretty good offensive package, but not amazing. He looks like he should be a solid second line winger which is pretty good `50 points

He is behind Gustav. After that there's a log jam of guys who proved they can dominate the junior game, can dominate college kids and can dominate other foreigners. Tatar had proven at 18 he can play with men and play well. That's where his hype has come from. He is fast with a gnarly shot. and built like a mini tank.

Living in Grand Rapids I have seen many Griffins games the past few years. IMO Tatar has never really stood out to me as a star player, especially now seeing Nyquist play. He's not a bad player by any means, just doesn't seem to impact the game in the same ways that Nyquist does so that is why he is below Nyquist as far as prospects go. Considering we have plenty of upcoming propects and everyone seems to be pretty high on Tatar as a prospect around the league, I wouldn't be opposed to looking to trade him in a package for a sniper at wing. Obviously it depends on who would be coming our way in the trade, but I just don't see Tatar being a top line player in his career!

Here is why Tatar is perhaps the best forward prospect in the organization, aside from perhaps Jurco who is in juniors.

Gustav Nyquist is 22, almost 23.

Tatar just turned 21.

Pulkkinen just turned 20.

Jurco just turned 19.

Sheahan just turned 20.

Jarnkrok is 20.

Mursak and Emmerton were both ranked similarly highly (potential second-liners) and are not much older (both are 23), but they are both on the team now - ahead of Nyquist.

Nyquist is looking great in Grand Rapids, no doubt. But he's two years older than Tatar, who is ALSO looking great. Tatar's production at 21 is similar to Hudler's in Grand Rapids. However, Hudler at 22 was far, far beyond what Nyquist is doing and at 23 he was in the NHL with the Wings and putting up strong offensive numbers even on the fourth line. Since then, Hudler has always been one of the league's top 180 scoring forwards at year's end. Tatar is on that path pretty solidly. Nyquist, not nearly as much.

Jurco might have an edge up as he's a very good junior prospect and has the size advantage, but Tatar has a definite advantage defensively.

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